Why do I dislike Islam?

Which empire was the nastiest by modern standards (or by the standards of any era) is an interesting question. Napoleon and JC for example still tend to get lots of praise from Christian and secular westerners, despite the whole war crimes / genocide thing…

And I’ll say it again, because for some strange reason people keep forgetting: the USA still has child brides, legally!


This is just a mental exercise, of course; it’s not something I’m actually saying. I need to cut it off before it gets to the part about the death penalty for blaspheming against 2A, because that doesn’t exist in law. There is a law in at least one part of Texas that you must be armed in public iirc, but I assume the punishment for breaking that law would a mere fine. Outside of what the law says, if you look around, you can find videos Americans using physical violence in response to mere words that strike them as un-American, which is not equal to the death penalty but is still disturbing.

That doesn’t necessarily mean gun ownership is a problem in itself. It doesn’t make up for any problems in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere. But if doing a cost-benefit analysis makes sense for one problem, in general it should make sense for other problems, and hopefully we all want these analyses to be as unbiased as possible. :slight_smile:

True in most countries around the world for most of recorded history, and it is frequently claimed that despite recent legal changes, it’s still true culturally, everywhere. The modern concept of gender equality can be very distressing, as you’ve explained in other threads.

(Btw did you hear that Canada’s military is supposed to be 25% female by 2025 and eventually 50-50? I wonder if we’re supposed to congratulate them or protest against the Feminazism of it… :idunno:)

Ridiculous and inhumane punishments

Also true in many parts of the world until recently, and still true in some non-Muslim countries. That doesn’t excuse the punishments, but context is important. It’s like what I say about the recent obsession with carbon among environmentalists: if we focus too much on carbon, we forget about all the other problems and let them get worse when we could be doing something about them.

Attitude towards science and truth

Dude, I thought you were American… :cactus:

Not Being able to freely practice whatever religion or beliefs they may have

True in some Muslim countries. Also true in most of Christendom for most of its history…

And many more reasons on why they would possibly cause many Muslim countries to be shit holes and stay as shit holes. Also on why they tend to not make the best immigrants to almost any western and modern countries.

I repeat: I don’t deny for a moment that problems exist. And I never said all of your arguments were unreasonable.

My point about reasonable arguments is that you don’t need to be or even seem unreasonable when discussing this topic. If you repeat echo chamber mantras like Muslims push gays off buildings that are objectionable the same way that statements like Catholics are child molesters or gun owners are mass murderers are objectionable, that tends to be unhelpful in these polarized times.

Consider the difference:

  1. Islam has a problem with alcohol. The details are disputed, but the fact is that Muslim countries tend to restrict alcohol severely, and many Muslims around the world are teetotalers. :frowning_face:

  2. Muslim countries: you drink, you die! :scream:

Or:

  1. Islam has a problem with sex. There is a tendency among Muslims to view homosexuality, premarital sex, and adultery as sins, and some countries even have severe punishments for these actions. :frowning_face:

  2. Muslims are gay-killers! :scream:

See the difference? One opens the door for serious discussion; the other shuts it.

And even when the arguments are presented reasonably, there may be reasonable (or humorous) criticisms of those arguments which do not constitute praise for Islam.

  1. Non-Muslim countries also have problems with alcohol. (See earlier post.) Plus, the “leader of the free world” is a teetotaler, so, like, what if he’s a closet Muslim? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Or:

  1. Other religions and secular movements also have problems with sex. Non-Muslims, including Americans, have also been known to kill gays for their gayness, even in modern times. Adultery is also illegal in secular Taiwan… :ponder:

And none of those is necessarily meant to excuse any legitimate complaint, but as with carbon vs. plastic and so on, we should try not to be myopic.

If you stick to the echo chamber mantras, you end up missing the point when a question like this comes up:

It was in response to the claim in the previous post that “SJW’s” are hypocrites because they support gay marriage and have “wholesale support” for Islam. Eventually we got to a conclusion that didn’t miss the point, but I had to protest first that SF was putting words in my mouth.


It’s complicated. Religion and ethnicity have this tendency to correlate, despite the many examples of non-correlation. Over the millennia many governments have passed laws to decrease, preserve or increase correlations (or for other reasons but with the side effect of decreasing, preserving or increasing correlations), and we still see some of this today, in various countries.

It has been claimed that Islam is (theologically) supposed to be “the Arab religion”, but afaik it’s not a widely held view among scholars.

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