Why do I dislike Islam?

I won the argument with this award-winning photo

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Solid proof that Smokey the Bear was responsible

Years ago I worked with one guy and he even handed me a DVD about 911 conspiracy or the federal reserve or whatever with ‘must watch’ scrawled on top of it. I have to dig it up again , I never even looked to see what was on it. :grinning:

image

Saudi Arabia allows women to drive …with some restrictions

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Saudi Uber: you might enter it and never leave. No trace of you will ever be found.

Oh, you’d exit the car alive, but in the middle of the desert.

https://tw.forumosa.com/t/uber-should-taiwan-allow-uber-to-operate/154722/350
(Nasty driver starts at 11:17.)

Do you like C. S. Lewis? :lion:

When he talks about nudity, he makes the point that “savages” on various tropical islands who walk around “naked” are not actually doing anything savage (in the sense of wicked) because to them it’s perfectly normal. That sort of thing also works the other way around, if you think about it.

Would you want to go to a nudist school? Oh, wait, maybe you would… :howyoudoin:

Okay, would you want your children to go to a nudist school? :eek:

Probably not, but that’s because of how you were raised.

If you were raised with a definition of nudity that includes unveiled girls (starting at puberty) who show their hair, you probably wouldn’t want your daughter walking around like that in public either. But (in a non-Muslim country) you would most likely be a first generation immigrant, and your daughter born in the country would most likely see things differently, just as you would probably never lose your accent, but she would grow up as a native speaker.

So, back in 2016, I got a call on my spacephone asking me to do a brief survey about your planet’s Donald. I gave my opinion – buffoon, crass, vulgar, sleazy, shows high potential for “worst president ever” – and so on, but then there was the question, is there any part of his platform you agree with?

Sure, that’s easy. How can you not support tax reform in a country with a tax code so complex, even judges can barely wrap their heads around it? I didn’t actually trust him to make the tax code better, but the basic concept of simplifying it? Great idea, in principle. And that’s not an uncommon view among my species.

Result: X percent of Rigellians support “aspects” or “provisions” of Trump’s platform. :cactus: It’s true, after all.


Why would you ask me, a gentile none Jewish person about mosaic law?

it’s really a silly line of questioning if you look at reality in this instance.

It’s not a hill you would die on, but you’ve already told us you don’t want the state “interfering” with the religious institution of marriage – which btw is what the sharia law controversy in western countries is centered around* – because of your belief in Judeo-Christian something-or-other (religion? culture? civilization?).

Someone who doesn’t know much about your religion and spends a lot of time in an echo chamber hearing horror stories about pedophile priests and huge waves of poor and uneducated Christian refugees with gangsters and terrorists among them (“and those Christian countries won’t even take in their own people!”) might think that means you believe in Mosaic law, period. There are Christians who will tell you (if they’re vocal enough, or if you know them well enough) that the Old Covenant was never abrogated**, all Mosaic law is still applicable, and it’s their mission as Christians to establish a theocratic republic in God’s name, with quotations from scripture to back them up, of course.***

While you are opposed to certain aspects of Mosaic law like slavery and capital punishment for homosexuality/adultery, you probably have a more charitable view of the centerpiece of that law, the 10 Commandments. Correct me if I’m wrong, of course, but that’s pretty common among Christians, even those who believe Jesus did abrogate the Old Covenant (but can’t seem to agree on the details of that abrogation).

Result: X percent of Christians support “aspects” or “provisions” of Mosaic law. :mountain: :fire: It’s true, after all.


*Re Sharia in the West:

Canadian perspective:

In 2004, Ontario already religious “courts” (not actually courts) for Christians and Jews; some Muslims wanted them too, and in practical terms there were really only two ways to go: religious arbitration for all, or religious arbitration for none. In 2006, the Liberal government (of the province) decided to go with the “none” option.

American perspective:


**Re abrogation:

Some theonomists go further and embrace the idea that the whole Law continues to function, contending that the way in which Christians observe some commands has changed but not the content or meaning of the commands. For example, they would say that the ceremonial commands regarding Passover were looking forward to Christ’s sacrificial death and the Communion mandate is looking back on it, the former is given to the Levitical priesthood and the latter is given to the priesthood of all believers, but both have the same content and meaning.[27][28][29][30]

Torah-observant Christians view Mosaic Law as of continuing validity and applicability for Christians under the new covenant.[37] This view is based on the idea that Jesus, as the Son of God and Messiah, could not and did not change the standard of Godly obedience, but rather affirmed both the “weightier” and “lesser” matters of Torah for those who have put their faith in him.[38] There are both ethnically Jewish and Gentile Torah-observant Christians.[37]


***Re Christian reconstructionism and (crypto-)theocracy in modern times:

What, “dead” like Communism? :rofl:

(Of course you don’t advocate armed revolution if you don’t have the numbers to win…)

Are these Christians screaming Jesus is the lord when they blow themselves up?

Case and point.

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nope no they aren’t

Maybe not, but some christians/catholics etc will shame your for being something they don’t like, claiming that homosexuality is a sin, or that abortion is a sin and stuff like that. Which means that if you’re considered to be a sinner, you’ll be forced to live with the enduring judgement of people who consider you a spawn of satan, whereas if you get thrown off a building or run over by a truck for being an infidel you won’t have to endure it any longer.

From that point of view christians/catholics pointing a finger at you and calling you bad names is EVEN WORSE than any form of physical violence!

Checkmate, islamophobes!

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One could turn that argument on its head, yyy, and argue: “Why do almost 60% of Muslims not support the introduction of any aspects of Sharia law, even the good bits?”

UK laws are no doubt influenced by Christianity, but it is not a religious legal system. The issue here is whether the 40%+ of UK Muslims who support aspects of Sharia law want them enshrined in UK common law, or whether they just like whatever those aspects are and prefer the style a more secularish (as of now) Islamic country like Turkey has? Will God be the legislator and the One who decides on the aspects to be imposed without precedent? It’s interesting that they are overwhelmingly opposed to Sharia banking laws being introduced.

A more revealing survey question would have been to have asked UK Muslims “Do you want Sharia law to be the UK’s law?” and compared that to asking UK Christians “Do you want Mosaic law to be the UK’s law?”.

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Its worse than it sounds that type of Christian passive agressive judgement often drives victums to behead themselves or women to stone themselves.

I’m trying to think the least desirable crazy Christians groups. Maybe the Westbrook baptist church? Everyone thinks they’re just crazies and make fun f them. At worst they are annoying.

I don’t find it funny seeing the streets I’ve used to walk around in Barcelona get attacked. No one does. And enough Muslims sympathize them for me to be worried.

I mean are the pope and Joel Olsteen or whoever screaming kill the unbelievers and death to Iran!

I would just ignore those unnecessarily long whataboutery posts. They just derail conversations and offer little of value

In Europe it is a problem. US maybe less, but in Europe it’s a major issue

True I think Muslims in US are pretty well integrated and contribute at many levels compared to Europe.

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The survey we’re discussing is actually very careful to defend Muslims. I think that’s why the word “aspects” was used when discussing Sharia law. Previous surveys show that when asked straight up if they support Sharia law 20%+ of UK Muslims say yes. It’s an astonishing figure.

I mean the long whataboutery posts making poorly thought out comparisons to Christianity. There a serious problems with modern Islam in Europe which need to be dealt with. There are also a lot of open minded Muslims who are worried about radicalization and want to reform. The aformentioned whataboutery posts just throw those people under the bus and obfuscate a serious issue

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I understood that. I was pointing out that yyy’s main argument revolves around a question in the survey that, IMO, deliberately included the word “aspects” to enable just such an argument.

This reminds me a bit of that ‘political spectrum’ thread from a couple of days back. I wonder if those guys aren’t exactly answering the question because the question is badly-framed?

What they might be suggesting, for example, is that UK law is royally fucked. It doesn’t work. They might simply be expressing a view that if, for example, the family down the road are terrorizing the entire neighbourhood, it’s not much use giving them a community service order and telling them to smarten up and be nice. They might not actually want them hauled out for a public beheading, if push came to shove, but they perhaps want to see some sort of justice - any justice - meted out.

yeah, different waves of immigration from different regions and strata of society. Also US has a smaller percentage of Muslims than major European countries