Yes, you must not have heard about that religion called Islam.
Just FYI, in this debate I’m probably on your side if I had to choose sides.
But, I think the distinction between a religion and a secular belief system is kind of moot
You can like someone but hate dumb things they do @Hanna. That doesn’t make you a bad person.
People can exist separately from their backwards bullshit religious beliefs. You don’t have to judge someone based on their spirituality.
They’re both ideologies.
Islam isn’t the same as other religions. You need to qualify your statement. Religions are as different as political ideologies.
One thing that specifically distinguishes Islam from other religions is that it offers a full political system for a perfect society, so it’s as much political as it is spiritual. Another key distinction is that it imagines itself as the final religion on earth and pushes believers to realize that goal.
I don’t get your point about the rest. Nearly every Muslim has beliefs that are not compatible with a liberal society, such as all homosexuals should be killed. The terrorists are not fanatics but rather literalists , as in they are following their religious texts to the letter.
The problem is islam and also modern Islamic institutions. Pretending it isn’t, or that all religions are just as bad is throwing true Muslim reformers and liberal Muslims under the bus. We don’t have a problem with grooming gangs who follow different religions in Europe. We don’t have radicalized Buddhist youths committing terrorism against the country they were born in. There is a problem and the only way to force Islam to reform to be compatible with modern western society is to highlight transgressions against our core values, ban nefarious elements and teachings and avoid whataboutery
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Islam is as much a political ideology as it is a religion. What do you think the Sharia is ?
There’s a British comedian and I’ve completely forgotten his name. Anyway, he plays a far right stereotype character and one of his gags is something like “Say what you like about Islam, you can’t knock their views on women.”
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Certain Islamic terror groups ISIS, Al Nusra etc have had quite a few neo nazi to extreme Islamist converts in their ranks.
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“I tell yuh these Muslims get no respect, no respect”
“Hey guys, these Muslims ain’t so bad. They don’t like gays and women, what’s not to like”
“Hey you Muslim guys are alright”
“Transgender yikes! Islam has the right idea when it comes to that”
“Fellas, what’s so bad about having your women coverup when she goes outside. Women are our property after all”
“Hey you Islam fellows are alright”
“Maybe I’ll convert to Islam. Hey, alright”
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So I agree with your statement, and I do similar statements about e.g Chinese when I’m too lazy to put in the qualifier nationalist chinese.
My point is that not all who practice is bad just as not all Chinese are bad.
Islam has some who would wish to reform, just as China has dissidents etc.
When discussing the matter in a serious matter, it’s good I think to be precise and specify what exactly we mean and in this topic we are discussing radical/jihadist/crazy Islam and not everyone who says they believe in Mohammed and allah
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Not really, actually, as so many LGBT are left-leaning on the political spectrum.
But the problem is Islam not it’s believers. Not all Muslims are bad but they make life choices within the habitus prescribed to them by their religion.
Fanatics is a ridiculous term. They are literalists. While not every Muslim is a terrorist, the numbers who are sympathetic to their actions is worrying. The problem isn’t the individual believers, but the religion itself
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Googled around a bit and I thought this was a pretty interesting interview with someone who seems very informed on the matter. He discusses the shortcomings on both the left and right in terms of how they conceive of Islam and Muslims, and his ideas for reformation.
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Wise words… nothing to add
an atheist Muslim
vox
BAHAHAHAHA
I’m out of this thread now.
JESUS H CHRIST
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Agree, of those who fall under the term Islam it’s crazy how many are sympathetic. I would believe it’s somewhere around 70%? Correct me if I’m wrong
But it still leaves a fairly large cohort who is not and as such perhaps we should not include them in our condemnation
Perhaps call it mainstream Islam? That way there still is a qualifier that it’s not ALL
Agree with most of the things he says and his main argument isexactly the point I was trying to make. If we don’t criticize Islam, we are throwing liberal Muslims and reformers under the bus
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I know a lot of conservative types grimace at Vox (one already fled the thread) but I think this is a good interview. Makes everything make a lot more sense to me.
Tricked you, I’m back.
I’m a liberal
That’s why I dislike Islam.
I don’t know how you can call yourself a liberal and LOVE Islam.
INB4: I don’t love Islam I’m just not a racist white male like you.
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I agree with it. Especially the bit about Islam and Christianity being different. One of the major distinctions is that Muslims think that the Quran was directly written by God himself. There is no room for interpretation. It’s different than the Bible and Christians relationship to it. That’s why I say jihadi are not fanatics, but rather literalists. For reform we need to push that this type of literalism is not acceptable in our cultures.
Anyway. The answer to the op is that liberals defend Islam because it’s believers have brown skin and they conflate criticising Islam with racism. Because of this they put Muslims on a pedestal and judge them to a different standard than white people. This is what Maajid Nawaz calls the “the racism of low expectations”. It is basically racist to do this.
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