Hmm so in response to “why do men get bashed for no reason these days” we might find, “why does spoilt brat get smacked for reason”
I don’t think it’s fair at all to describe Andrew0409 as a “spoilt brat”. Yes, he’s clearly from a wealthy background - but that’s not his fault. Just from his posts we can see that he has achieved a lot regardless of fortune of birth. He’s build like a brick shithouse, apparently very good at martial arts, very knowledgeable about many things. Definitely not spoilt, IMO.
I was thinking more like R Kelly. It wasn’t directed at anyone here. Apologies if it sounded like that.
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I misunderstood. I’m the one who should apologise.
You seem to spend just as much time complaining about Saudi Arabia, yet you’re not going there either. 
They come to Taiwan talking about toxic masculinity and completely ignore that there is actually a sexist law that makes men responsible for the security of the country through conscription and have a whole women’s march talking about “invisible discrimination” and yes I watched their speeches there to see if there’s any weight to what they’re saying.
Woah, what’s this? Taiwan is being invaded by western feminists? Someone call K-man asap! 
My response is why they don’t say anything about a clearly sexist law of only men having to do conscription, they said most women aren’t physically capable of being a soilder dispite me explaining not every person in the military is a combat soilder. They still wouldn’t hear it.
So go ahead and complain about the sexist law. You can petition. And you’re a citizen, so you can vote. Gender inequality in military affairs has been around since long before the concept of feminism was invented, so you can’t really blame feminists for it – let alone foreign feminists.
And getting back on topic, if the TM theory isn’t very useful in explaining the aforementioned murders, can you show us a more useful theory?
There were mostly locals who laughed at the concept of females also should partake in conscription. I talked to the people at the march and listened to their speeches. I’m happy to serve my country, and I advocate the whole thing be more useful vs what it is today. I just think it’s ridiculous women fail to mention that in Taiwan when it’s actually a unequal law they can say something about. Isn’t feminism about equality or they just want the benefits? That’s 90% of feminists I see today.
Poor mental health recognition and help. We know men are more likely to murder their significant others through violent means that’s nothing new. women tend to use things like poison. I wouldn’t doubt many women that have gotten away with it in Taiwan.
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The theory tells us that TM itself is a mental health issue and could be prevented through educational/cultural change.
Btw going back to the swimsuit controversy, the narrative on Greg Gutfeld’s show (FNews) is that
- the change is good because women shouldn’t wear swimsuits when they’re not swimming, but
- the change is bad because in the past, the losers always knew they lost because they were ugly on the outside, whereas now they’ll realize they’re ugly on the inside, and that will make them feel bad.
Do the men of Taiwan really need to be educated on hey let’s not chop up our significant others and beat and rape them?
TM is all the worst traits of men and some stupid made up ones. Like this nice article of women now telling how men should sit.
And for 3rd wave extremist who deny masculine and feminine traits…TM doesn’t even make sense because it’s all part of the “patriarchal” socialization processes, and the invisible imbalance of essentializing men only for their worst-case traits.
Pure strawman. That article says nothing about TM. “Get it right,” as Andrew0409 would say.
Do the men of Taiwan really need to be educated on hey let’s not chop up our significant others and beat and rape them?
People all over the world need education on all kinds of things. As long as violent crime is common enough that people don’t find the headlines shocking, I think there’s room for improvement.
And for 3rd wave extremist who deny masculine and feminine traits…TM doesn’t even make sense because it’s all part of the “patriarchal” socialization processes, and the invisible imbalance of essentializing men only for their worst-case traits.
As explained above, it’s not a creation of third wave feminism. If members of the 3WF community use it to mean what you think it means (I don’t know because I don’t spend much time listening to them), then it probably makes sense in their minds. Next time I meet a 3WF I’ll be sure to inquire.
Btw have you considered the flipside of that?
And for 3rd wave masculinist extremists who emphasize masculine and feminine traits… complaining about gender inequality in the military doesn’t even make sense because it’s all part of the “boys should play with trucks and guns, girls should play with dolls and unicorns” socialization processes, and the visible imbalance of essentializing men only for their physical/combative traits.
*Edit: sorry, straw person. 
It’s an excellent example of another thing feminists in gender studies put man in front of as a negative thing. Manexplaing is one. It’s pure sexism. And an attempt to control how man should act because some idiot is offending by something so trivial.
You didn’t answer my question. Is Taiwanese society so backwards we actually need to explain not to chop people up and beat up their partner, and all the things normal people find morally wrong. And I’m pretty sure people do find it shocking.
But some of the things men do are harmful. Men commit most murders for example, by far. If it’s possible to identify factors that contribute to that situation and to try to address them, is there necessarily a problem?
If even one person finds it a good idea to chop up someone, wouldn’t it behoove us to instruct them not to, in whatever way possible? What would that have to do with Taiwanese society possibly being backwards?
As I said, people all over this planet need help. There’s probably a higher murder rate in Canada, but I haven’t checked.
It’s an excellent example of another thing feminists in gender studies put man in front of as a negative thing. Manexplaing is one. It’s pure sexism. And an attempt to control how man should act because some idiot is offending by something so trivial.
Again with the gender studies boogieperson. This is starting to resemble a Pavlovian experiment. You know, like…
Let’s review:
If you want to complain about people who complain about manspreading, that’s one thing. If you accuse masculinists of being feminists or paint all feminists (or masculinists) with the same brush, that’s another thing.
I now wish you a pleasant day of manliness. 
Sure, but who is to decide the remedy to the problem? And who has the right to remedy the problem? It seems like there’s no discussion unless you agree with the feminist agenda. I don’t want the state or schools to dictate say how I raise my sons in the future.
I think men in general actually benefit from a lot of the things we are moving away from. Boys interact with each other differently, some aggression and horse play is probably good for boys development agreed with by many psychologists who are way smarter in this subject. Some of the archetypes that man partake in into manhood are now portrayed as toxic and i’m not ok with that. We don’t need to teach our boys and men to behave more like girls and women, i think that’s more harmful.
I have yet to hear any reasonable remedy to fix TM. They all sound ridiculous to me. Who is to the decision maker on whether something is toxic masculinity and what to do about it, let alone control, change, or reeducate a man outside of the basics of things any normal human being would find morally wrong like say chopping people up.
I think most men and even women like the masculine spirit. It’s not fundamentally the rape culture, world destroying, oppressive thing like it’s associated with. I think we will have more messed up men if we don’t start to see that.
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I agree with this. The problem with the ‘toxic masculinity’ idea is that it takes an unarguable fact - that men tend to commit a lot more extreme violence than women - and identifies this as a core component of “masculinity”.
I’m a bit leery of wheeling out Jordan Peterson to support a point, but he explains quite well the subtle difference between being violent and having the capacity for violence but choosing not to deploy it. Masculinity does involve a certain component of physical power. That in itself is not toxic. But using violence as the go-to solution for anything is not masculine; in fact it’s often perceived (at least by other men) as betraying an underlying weakness. The “whatchoo looking at?” scenario is always initiated by deeply insecure men.
Men and women are equally capable of using violence sadistically or for bullying weaker opponents (although women tend to keep it on the down low, or at a psychological level, unless encouraged to do otherwise). It’s reprehensible whoever’s doing it, and as Andrew said it’s straightforward enough to educate both boys and girls about that. It doesn’t necessarily require that we attempt to dial out even the basic capacity for violence from male brains - I don’t think this is even possible without causing immense damage.
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An estimated 40-70% of prison inmates have antisocial personality disorder. This is diagnosed at a ratio of 3-1 male/female.
If a male has antisocial personality disorder then he is much more likely to become successfully physically violent than a female due to his maleness. However, that doesn’t mean the violence is the result of toxic masculinity. The violence is the result of a mental disorder. Masculinity is a contributing factor but not the cause of the violence.
I’m going to make an educated guess that many more people have been killed by white people throughout modern history than any other skin tone. Whiteness isn’t the cause, though.
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Are you trying to get excommunicated by the regressive busybodies? OF COURSE it was all caused by toxic whiteness! The rest of the non-white world went through millions of years of peace and coexistence.
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Anti social personality disorder is one of the hardest behavioral disorders to treat. Some therapist and psychologist even believe theres no real agreed on treatment and all sorts of therapy show little to no progress. Some drugs seem to help manage it from people who are more aggressive with it, but they also run into other problems with drug dependency which is also common for people with it. And it’s not uncommon people with it also have other mental health issues. It can be managed with a lesser degree if the person is willing to make an effort to learn to cope with it, but it doesn’t seem to be something that can be “cured” so to say.
But men aren’t the only ones that seem to suffer more from a certain personality disorder. Women overwhelmingly suffer more from nueroticism.
Exactly, I can think so some things women tend to do that may be “toxic” as they aren’t angels either. Ive never heard of any feminist talk about women in a negative light and almost absolve women of any responsibility for say their own failures or the situation they are in because of well, men and the patriarchy. Imagine the outrage if I coin “toxic femininity” as a thing.
I think many psychologist out there would agree. In fact I read a lot of psychologists that are worried about some of the concept of feminist movements like ignoring basic biological and psychological difference between men and women. I think most would say repressing some of these things are actually really harmful and can have dire consequences like say chopping up people and becoming a serial rapist.
We seem to need to channel our basic instincts like say the capacity for violence through healthy means like say competitive sports. I would even say it helps us to have the capacity for violence not necessarily act it out. For example, martial artist have known for a long time that gaining the ability to channel our capacity for violence through martial arts helps actually avoid violence and confrontation. If you’re a weak pushover with no confidence, I’m guessing you might be an easy target. Predatory people smell weakness, but knowing how to protect yourself, you carry yourself differently. And you handle confrontations differently vs say a person who has no capacity for violence.
I don’t agree. For example, look at how Germaine Greer is currently being treated for having the wrong opinions.