Why do men get bashed for no reason these days?


I never said this article was libel but it’s just awful enough to not even bother investating anything. I don’t know what the other journalists wrote, but come on, this isn’t news. It an adaptation of a book posed as news and taken as fact and there is my problem. [quote=“yyy, post:130, topic:166200”]
So how is anyone supposed to write about the sketchy men who do exist,

I’m not saying bad men don’t exist. I know they do. I’ve seen them. But report them as such, bad men not as characatures of how men are. And actually name them. I can’t help or do anything if you just bad things are happening. What bad things. Give me something Stand with.

Because one persons utopia always turns out to be a disaster. Of course the perfect utopia in your head is amazing. It is too in mine. But I understand that I’m not all benevolent and perfect and the one in my head is probably someone else’s distopua.

Yeah if they took less than the market value of wages it really does. I got paid exactly the same and I found a job. And I called out the buxibans who did discriminate. I posted at least one in the black list section.


I have. That’s why I’m living in Taiwan. Men by and large aren’t demonized here… Still it would be nice if we weren’t treated like the enemy ‘back home’ because the vast majority of us really do want to help make this world a fairer, more open, safer world for everyone regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or other artificial distinction. I wouldn’t even mind being told I have to go to the back of the line because my single parent mom had to go to the back of the line when she was in the work force but the constant demonizing fantasies make trying not even worth it.


in a utopia where all of us don’t need to work, it might happen. In the current real world, having a job can give a great freedom to a woman.

In some regions of my country, people still think husbands can use wives like servants, and beat women when they are unpleasant. Women feel it uncomfortable, but just accept it because they don’t have other ways to live with their kids. Mothers teach daughters to tolerate it and try not to make husband angry.

I think they know there are women who have jobs like men and live independently, and few of them get their own jobs and leave the husbands who beat them. But, many of them cannot imagine they can be independent from their husbands. There, NGOs and government agencies are trying to change society’s way of thinking.

Of course, not all of the marriages are like that. In those regions, there are many husbands who don’t beat their wives. But those behaviours are accepted. In my opinion, it is not a fault of men, but the society should change some customs.

@Andrew0409, do you say it’s individual’s choice to be under that kind of situation, because the laws are equal and there are few individuals who get away from there by themselves? I think we should try to improve the situation as a society.


Not really what I had in mind. We all know there are certain things that need doing. The fact remains that 80% of what happens “in the workplace” simply doesn’t need doing. It’s either inherently pointless make-work, or it’s being done to fix a problem caused elsewhere. Two classic examples would be the childcare industry, which only exists because parents are made to feel guilty for looking after their own children, and the ready-meals industry, which exists because people are made to feel guilty for going into the kitchen and doing ‘women’s work’.

Here’s the secret I learned, much too late, for a happy and fulfilling life: say no. You can have that for free. You’re welcome. People go through life saying “yes” as they’re railroaded through school, jobs, marriage, and all sorts of lesser things in between. Then they die, and wonder what the fuck happened to their lives. Like I said, a whole lot of things don’t need doing, and the odd thing is that employers seem to value people who can discriminate what doesn’t need doing. Everyone wins.

In the country I was referring to earlier, a woman’s job offers precisely what you would expect: indentured servitude. It only appears to be otherwise in The West because the people who arrange such things are much cleverer than their equivalents in third-world countries.

Indeed. And that is Wrong with a capital W. However this has little or nothing to do with women’s “access” to the workplace, which in this instance is clearly an escape from a dysfunctional reality that simply should not exist.


The point is to provide a safe space for them to fully explore their options, what they hope to achieve in life and balance that with what they are actually good at. That’s what fulfilling means.

Sure. This is why I think you and I can sit down and have a meaningful conversation. But I do think we should hope to be better, and evolution is happening, so you can see how to just put our hands up and sit back would be counterproductive and kind of depressing.



Case in point when I say there’s a fundamental flaw in not just how we raise girls, but boys as well. Ladies may be eating a larger sht sandwich with an extra helping of poop, but that doesn’t mean men aren’t eating a sht sandwich either, albeit a smaller one. Life is hard for all humans, sexual organs aside. Let’s do whatever we can to make it less hard for our kids and let them grow up as individuals, not because I am x, therefore I must y. The key is in balance. Balance between desire and given potential.

They do indeed all suck. Most of those politicians in congress, male or female, suck. There are no women on that specific committee.


I have no idea what you’ve been through in life to make you jaded as such, but have hope. Trust our kids. I think if you look at the course of human history - even though there have been sidetracks and certain detours - we eventually course correct and step back on the right path.

Keep trying, kemosabe. What a grim alternative otherwise. It’ll honestly make you feel better when all is said, and will pay off.


Communist or anarchist? I think you might be too liberal for my taste, @finley. :smirk: I wish you can wave your smooth, delicate Scottish-Irish hand and eliminate all needs for paper currency. My parents can retire to Bora Bora, my sister can soul-search. I can focus on my movies.


And the safest possible space is with their parents, who know their foibles, skills and hopes better than any “professional” ever could. Various societies have found creative ways to do this. It’s only The West that’s failed to do so, and is bizarrely proud of that failure.

So let’s stop making parents feel guilty about their instinctive choices, which are in any case transient. There is no rule that says a five-year-old must be prepared for such-and-such a career, which he will perform for his entire life, without any backtracking or admission of error. A person might want to be a soldier when they’re 18, a parent when they’re 25, an insurance salesman when they’re 40, and an author when they’re 60. So let them. Society frowns on people who even consider this sort of life. It is Not Allowed.

Neither. I have zero patience with -ists. My hands have calluses and machete cuts on them, because I enjoy doing physical things as much as I enjoy using my brain. I’ve been poor, rich, and everything in between, and after doing everything I’ve wanted to do - despite being a “disadvantaged minority” -
I’m absolutely certain that uniform mediocrity brought about by putting children in ‘safe spaces’ is not what the world needs. Children should fail and graze their knees and fall out of trees, because those are the things that make success happen, and make it sweeter when it does.

Funnily enough, I’m working on that one. It’s either going to be bigger than Paypal or a ridiculous disaster. :slight_smile:


I guess it’s somewhat “frowned upon”. That is sad and shouldn’t be the case.

Just like (as you mentioned) how some kids who just don’t have what it takes to be a good doctor - Parenting honestly is an incredibly difficult task - you underestimate the challenge it is to raise a fully adjusted, happy, capable child. Some individuals are just better at childcare than others (not to say they should be the primary caregiver - that should generally be the parents’ duty), no matter the parent’s desire. I’ll be the first to admit that even though I’ll try my darnedest best to raise my hypothetical child when the time comes - if I’m being completely and brutally honest - parenting will not be among my stronger skillsets as an individual, and I’m okay with that and will seek help to compensate for my weaknesses.

Their personal feelings and desires aside, Einstein will always be more accomplished as a mathematician and scientist, Rosa Parks as an activist, John Williams as a composer, and Maya Angelou as a writer. Etc, etc.

Ha. Same.

I mean to actually say all types of currencies. Digital, crypto or otherwise. Money is the root of almost all evil. Let me in on it when you do figure it out. Filmmaking is expensive.


Since when are “male-oriented products” tax free? Please point me to the drugstore you are talking about so that I may save some money.

You are also saying that necessities should not be taxed. Where do you draw the line? Is gasoline a necessity? Is deodorant a necessity? And without tax revenue, who is going to fund all those female empowerment activities you surely have on your agenda?

Birth control in Taiwan is dispensed over the counter without a prescription and costs around 150-300 NT per menstrual cycle. That puts the yearly cost in the range of 3,000-4,000 NT, hardly a big deal and extremely cheap if anything. I am vehemently against the NHI paying for this however. Recreational sexual activity - and that is sex on birth control - is a private pastime and not for society to fund.


sometimes it could be an unwanted/unpleasant activity from women’s side.


yeah, it’s not just gender that I think there are problems we should solve.

An example I think of is treatment of foreign blue collar workers in taiwan. Some of them are working under worse than poor labor environments. But there are laws prohibiting treat them like a slave. Is it just a choice of individual worker, and society doesn’t need to do anything?


They sure do


Yeah, sometimes that could be the case. But would you also argue government should pay for batons, pepper spray, and other means of self-defense?


Absolutely agree, but it’s like any other skill: you put in the hours and the effort, and you get better at it. Bad parents, as far as I can tell, are bad because they either (a) can’t put in the effort (due to “the demands of their career”) or (b) won’t put in the effort (because they’re assholes). One of the main hindrances, I guess, is the baggage we all carry from our own childhood. There should really be courses for that, taught in schools, to people who will be parents before they know it and often before they’re ready.

You can’t do anything about the people who simply don’t care about their kids, but I’d say they’re a tiny minority. The rest: let’s give them a break. Let’s give them a chance to get really good at parenting. Let’s value parents. Let’s stop telling them they’re not “contributing to the economy”. Maybe then we won’t have to spend so many tax dollars on cleaning up the fallout of bad parenting.

If you want to be good at it then you’ll be good at it, no question. You might not be “I should write a textbook about this” good, but you’ll be 80%+ good. Not being the world’s best parent is not failure. Not even trying is failure. “Experts” thrive because they convince the great mass of humanity that only they are capable of doing things that, in reality, are within the reach of practically everyone, at least to a good-enough level of competence.

It’s not a currency, so it won’t replace currencies. It’ll work alongside them in situations were currencies aren’t the right tool for the job. It remains to be seen whether that would include filmmaking. I’m trying to figure out a way of not making it digital; that’s the hard bit.


no, I wouldn’t. But I’m believing the right of abortion should be given to women at least under some conditions.

Iirc, there are countries or states where minimum necessities are not taxed. If there men’s necessities, the only examples I think of are shaving items, are not taxed, but women’s higine are taxed, I would feel it unequal.


Women’s sport is less exciting so there is less money to be made. As a result women get paid less


I cannot quite imagine what kind of society you are talking about. Parents of young kids (younger than 5 year old?) are taking care of them at home, and those who don’t have kids and whose kids are old enough do work?

Athlete cannot have kids until they quit, but most of them are still young enough to have kids, so not so much a problem. Many of scientists should interrupt their research at least for 5 years for 1 kid, or 6 years for 2 kids, which might be a big problem for individuals of them, but maybe not so much for entire society. Politicians, same? Farmers cannot take care of their farms. They can ask it to someone else, or farming is done by companies or cooporations and farmers are employees, so it’s ok? Companies maybe need some office workers. Or, computers do the work? Then there should be some engineers. Musicians can continue practicing at home while taking care of their kids? Parental leaves of 6 years for teachers, firefighters, police officers, soldiers, civil servants, doctors, nurses, salespersons, caregivers for elders, may be not so much problems? Industries of productive manufacturers and construction need to give 5 or more year parental leave to their workers too.

Assuming typically a couple have 2 kids with 2-year interval, they take 7 year leaves, while they are 20-40 year old. One third of people age 20-40 don’t work, then are there enough labor force for required minimum jobs? While they don’t work, minimum necessities are supplied by government?


I think you misunderstood my stance. Im all for change and improving lives. But I’m against using misinformation and demonizing men in the name of progress when the majority of men would act like decent human beings and stand for equality and justic. For example, others have mentioned the 22% wage gap. I explained this statistic is a false representation of the actual wage gap because it groups all full time workers (35 hours) into men and women without separating them into fields, accounting for experiences, education, or hours worked past 35 hours. You see why using that percentage would turn off people who understand how statistics work? Wouldn’t you want people to get a better statistical representation to indeed prove the case so people can actually get unboard? It’s doing women a disservice passing around bad statistics to prove your case. If indeed there is a wage gap, use a better statistically accurate number.

It’s like me saying of the 500 Fortune 500 CEOs, women on average make more than men. Which is statistically true. But would you accept that as my evidence that men are being oppressed and make less than women in the wage gap? it’s not exactly a good sample size and there are only 20 women. So we don’t use that because it’s not statistically relevant and not a good representation.

So please understand why I’m not happy with what information is passed around like the original article. What is the purpose? Be honest? Is it really to bring equality to women or does it just paint men in a bad light and blame men having orgies and having sexuality without a single shred of evidence or source. I’m sure orgies happen but look at how it paints men and women who participates and doesn’t participates. Men who participates are oppressors, women who participates are whores basically that add to it. How about maybe both parties are consensual. And then it paints women who don’t join as victims and doesn’t even mention men who also probably don’t participate. You don’t think men who don’t participate are also probably looked down by other men and women ? Not to mention it’s being passed as news when it’s an adaptation from a book called brotopia lol. Like men saying men are being oppressed because women left on the life raft watching the movie titanic. Could be true but I wouldn’t source the movie for my evidence.


Would that be before or after you abolish public schools because they’re a waste of your precious tax money? :ponder:

Btw @Rockefeller I would be giving more likes to your posts if they didn’t bring abortion into this discussion. Personally, I have a strict neutrality policy on that one. :zipper_mouth_face: :balance_scale: