Try learning an Aboriginal language. Then you’ll transcend the realm of “Taiwan” and enter the realm of “Formosan”.
The reason why they speak English is to practice English or in rarer cases to be seen to be speaking English, that goes for about 90% plus of them (the ones that speak English to you). I agree with Poagao in the old days fewer foreigners spoke Chinese, some of the older folk would still have that mindset. The younger kids know well you can probably string some Chinese together but have no interest to help you, it’s all about helping themselves first (isn’t that the society here). That’s why it doesn’t matter if you are a native English speaker or not or if you can even reply in English properly, if you look like a foreigner it’s a chance to practice English. Schools even send out junior high school kids to find foreigners to ask random questions to, I’ve fended them off numerous times.
Toasty, you are going on about people not being ‘really fluent’ and that is why people speak English to them…don’t buy it, most people speak terrible English in Taiwan…never stopped random crap coming out of their mouths though did it. Anyway not everybody speaks English but the ones that do …everybody knows the type. I had a weird situation at work once where when I joined the supervisor insisted on speaking English to me (her English was pretty good but not great) and in front of all our colleagues and to annoy her I would speak Chinese back. Well I got tired of the whole thing pretty quickly and we were busy with work so I said screw it speaking English its easier anyway and low and behold she spoke Chinese to me from then on…which was kind of funny come to think of it!
touduke, a lot of long term foreigners came here expecting to stay for a short time. By the time they decided to make this a home they had an established life which in many cases does not expose them to much Chinese during the day. I studied when I first arrived, made some progress but then got too busy to continue after I got married. It wasn’t until I had been here 6-7 years more that I started studying again and I only seriously started to learn to read 3 years ago. I’ve had the luxury to do so and the desire. Many don’t and frankly have little need for Mandarin beyond a few phrases and an understanding of numbers.
Try to grasp that. Long term foreigners have local spouses and friends and also lives that don’t allow for a lot of study. It’s got nothing to do with respect that they aren’t studying but simply pragmatism. And for what it’s worth I’d much rather see sandman practicing his sax than his mandarin as at least the former will eventually sound good if he keeps up at it.
[quote=“Icon”][quote=“touduke”]I live in Taiwan a big part of my life and I think it is strange to assume that a foreign person in Taiwan is a tourist. Taiwan is not much of a tourist destination for Westerners.
So you either think Taiwanese citizens assume all foreigners are tourists, or that Taiwanese citizens think that foreigners don’t bother or are unable to learn and speak Chinese.
Well, maybe we should indeed blame it on that group of old expats, trotting the island for decades and decades speaking English to their wifes, only having English speaking friends and never bother to learn a Chinese sentence.[/quote]
Worse: they assume you are an English teacher, as transient and temporray as a tourist, and just as likely to have the language ability to do more than order a bowl of soup with “sleep”. 
Do you actually go out on the street with such a huge log on your shoulder? 
[/quote]
I think some assume but many simply want to speak the Englezi…not to actually communicate with you.
Mucha Man, thanks for your post!
Sat TV. I am German, 14 years in Taiwan.
We are talking about Western people in Taiwan, right? So, you do not have to come up with some word twisting. I am pretty sure you are wrong if you think a 7/11 clerk figures a adoga buying a Taiwan Beer is a tourist.
oh Bismark, since you are editing this thread, why don’t you remove the death threats? It looks a little silly if you remove sandman’s habitual insults, but leave the death threats of some others untouched.
How many westerners have you met that live here in Taiwan that genuinly cannot speak English. I have met two in 22 years who could not speak English when they moved here.
I don’t agree that the locals speaking to your first in English means they are trying to exclude you from normal life here. Many locals know that there are a lot of foreigners here who cannot speak Chinese and are just being courteous in addressing you in English first. Just answer them in Chinese and they will probably not bother to speak to you in English again. None of the locals here that I know have the attitude they don’t expect expats not to speak Chinese, in fact they feel much more at ease in some situations if you do.
I’ve not found myself excluded from local conversation and normal life here. Where I live in Alishan there are a few people who speak decent English and many who don’t. The ones who don’t just speak to me in Chinese, or in Tsou. Would it be rude of me to speak to another westerner here only in Mandarin if say a third person could not understand Chinese was with us?
If you feel that they are constantly reminding you that you are a foreigner then that’s just an attitude adjustment problem you need to address.
Give up your German passport and become a local citizen then you’ll feel much better.
A quick note:
When someone addresses me in english, and the opportunity is available, I oftern ask them how it comes to be that they speak the lingo.
It has led to some interesting chats about their travels, education and has allowed me to gt a further glimpse into their lives. And to share a few of my ‘life stories’ with them as well.
It can be gratifying.
Of course this is not something doable’ while waiting in line at the 7-Eleven, but at the appropriate time its a nice part of life here on the island.
Did I ever tell ya bout the guy I met selling lottery tickets who spent 35 yrs in New York city and then returned to Tainan…?
“Why do so many Taiwanese speak English to foreigners?”
I never even realized the above question could have a negative meaning until I read that thread a while back in which some young fella actually blamed the Taiwanese for speaking English, and then in another thread, “on rehearing,” so to speak, he changed his opinion and decided that non-Chinese-fluent expats were the ones screwing him up.
That was a trip. A trip to say, Proxima Centauri. But this here thread, man, it’s nearing the outskirts of the galaxy.
I thought that everybody pretty much knew that for about a quarter of a century Taiwan (as well as some other nations) has displayed a real mania for learning English. I honestly don’t know if they’re as keen on it as Korea, where at some firms a certain minimum TOEIC score is a prerequisite to promotion, and where salarymen are often ordered by their firms to take English classes on their own time (although some firms hold classes during working hours). But it’s very important to an awful lot of Taiwanese, and apparently to the government. I’ve seen situations in which parents who were nowhere near rich were willing to shell out a lot of cash on a regular basis for a long time to get their child or children English lessons. I mean, they were willing to harm themselves to some extent, to take risks.
But in any case, it’s just common as sparrows for people here to have had at least some training in English. It’s so common that when people have problems communicating in English, they often exhibit the signs of embarrassment. It’s extraordinary when I stop to think about it, but I usually take it for granted it because it’s practically everywhere. I can’t help but conclude that it’s a big, big deal here.
So if some young person who first began to be exposed to English in elementary school or even earlier sees a foreign-looking person, it seems quite natural that they would want to try out their English. You know, if they spent so much time getting training in English, it makes sense that they would want to try to use it. It also seems quite normal for them to feel good about it, to think that they were trying to make things easier for this foreign person.
I cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody could have any kind of real problem with that. I can understand being testy or peevish; there are times when I don’t feel very good and don’t want to hear or speak to anybody in any language. But so far I’ve eventually had a lucid interval in which I’ve gotten a sneaking suspicion that my crankiness was supposed to be mainly my problem, not the other folks’.
I feel that being addressed in English constantly is a reminder. “We don’t expect you to speak Chinese. You are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner”. You are different, you are excluded from normal conversation and normal life.
The only foreigners I can figure who can’t understand this feeling are those who never bother to speak Chinese, give a darn f about local people and live in their own English bubble.
CJ-
Very well said… :bravo: … :bravo:
[quote=“Charlie Jack”]“Why do so many Taiwanese speak English to foreigners?”
I never even realized the above question could have a negative meaning until I read that thread a while back in which some young fella actually blamed the Taiwanese for speaking English, and then in another thread, “on rehearing,” so to speak, he changed his opinion and decided that non-Chinese-fluent expats were the ones screwing him up.
That was a trip. A trip to say, Proxima Centauri. But this here thread, man, it’s nearing the outskirts of the galaxy.
I thought that everybody pretty much knew that for about a quarter of a century Taiwan (as well as other some other nations) has displayed a real mania for learning English. I honestly don’t know if they’re as keen on it as Korea, where at some firms a certain minimum TOEIC score is a prerequisite to promotion, and where salarymen are often ordered by their firms to take English classes on their own time (although some firms hold classes during working hours). But it’s very important to an awful lot of Taiwanese, and apparently to the government. I’ve seen situations in which parents who were nowhere near rich were willing to shell out a lot of cash on a regular basis for a long time to get their child or children English lessons. I mean, they were willing to harm themselves to some extent, to take risks.
But in any case, it’s just common as sparrows for people here to have had at least some training in English. It’s so common that when people have problems communicating in English, they often exhibit the signs of embarrassment. It’s extraordinary when I stop to think about it, but I usually take it for granted it because it’s practically everywhere. I can’t help but conclude that it’s a big, big deal here.
So if some young person who first began to be exposed to English in elementary school or even earlier sees a foreign-looking person, it seems quite natural that they would want to try out their English. You know, if they spent so much time getting training in English, it makes sense that they would want to try to use it. It also seems quite normal for them to feel good about it, to think that they were trying to make things easier for this foreign person.
I cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody could have any kind of real problem with that. I can understand being testy or peevish; there are times when I don’t feel very good and don’t want to hear or speak to anybody in any language. But so far I’ve eventually had a lucid interval in which I’ve gotten a sneaking suspicion that my crankiness was supposed to be mainly my problem, not the other folks’.[/quote]
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]CJ-
Very well said… :bravo: … :bravo: [/quote]
Thanks, TC. 
I feel that being addressed in English constantly is a reminder. “We don’t expect you to speak Chinese. You are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner”. You are different, you are excluded from normal conversation and normal life.
The only foreigners I can figure who can’t understand this feeling are those who never bother to speak Chinese, give a darn f about local people and live in their own English bubble.[/quote]
I do bother to try to speak Chinese, although many Chinese speakers probably wish I wouldn’t. 
I’m a lazy fellow, and a cheapskate, too. And I’m the sort of guy who breaks promises to himself. But 'way back there, some time in 2003, I started trying to learn Chinese–at home, just using the materials. Granted, it’s been an on-and-off thing, and mostly off, but I have given it somewhat of a shot.
I should add that I’m old (57 years old, to be exact; I was pretty old in 2003, too), and my memory is not so hot anymore. But however poor of a learner and however delinquent I might have been, I kept good track of my learning sessions. I wrote down the times and everything. At some point in the past, I went through those “logs” and added up the time, discarding sessions that looked suspicious, i.e., looked as if they weren’t really about Chinese. I continued to keep track after that. My total study time is about 910 hours. Now, I realize that’s not all that much, but it doesn’t exactly mean that I don’t give a you-know-what. But the upshot of it all is that my Chinese ability is, I would say, somewhere in one of the geological levels (you know, the opposite of astronomical).
I can be said to live in an English bubble because I spend about 48 hours a week at an English cram school (I’d be lying if I said I worked that whole 48 hours, but I’m there). I also post on and read an Internet bulletin board (the name of it escapes me just now–fanciful thing, Foreign Mocha, or something–I’ll have to get back with you on that one).
But I must be a delicate soul, ‘cause in terms of adjustment challenges, if this is a bubble, I’m sho grateful I ain’t had the full treatment. I ain’t knockin’ the Taiwanese for that; I think my whole life has been mostly about difficulties adjusting.
Charlie, ok, then we both have different views and feelings about being addressed in English. No problem on my side.
I enjoy reading your post and agree with almost all you write anyway
[quote=“touduke”]Charlie, ok, then we both have different views and feelings about being addressed in English. No problem on my side.[/quote] Me, neither: no problem.
You guys do know that if you present yourself as someone who can speak Chinese the locals won’t speak English to you. A good way to do this is to speak first! Of course you need to be able to speak…with tones…and the correct vowels and consonants…a few sentence patterns will go a long way…
It’s only what you feel. I believe ( of course it’s only my own opinion ) that most other expats do not feel this way. It’s your own opinion of what you believe the locals think.
After all, you are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner because YOU feel this way. It’s an attitude problem on your part, not the part of the Taiwanese people.
ah Sat TV, you are here did you find anything I wrote that explains your sentence [quote]“your silly little beef is that you feel that people here speaking to you in English is racist.” [/quote]
I asked that quite some times, please address my question.
To you last post. Yes, you right I do feel that being addressed in English constantly is a reminder. “We don’t expect you to speak Chinese. You are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner. You are different, you are excluded from normal conversation and normal life”. Thanks for repeating it.
[quote]It’s an attitude problem on your part, not the part of the Taiwanese people. [/quote] that is your opinion. I think you are totally wrong.
I feel that being addressed in English constantly is a reminder. “We don’t expect you to speak Chinese. You are a foreigner and you will always be a foreigner”. You are different, you are excluded from normal conversation and normal life.
The only foreigners I can figure who can’t understand this feeling are those who never bother to speak Chinese, give a darn f about local people and live in their own English bubble.[/quote]
I don’t want to criticize or berate you, Touduke, and I don’t hold it against you that you’re defending your corner so doggedly, but I can’t for the life of me understand how you’ve drawn such conclusions about the local people speaking to you in English. My own experience and observations over the course of more than two decades here do not match what you’re saying at all.
For a start, I seldom find myself being spoken to in English these days. I would say that at least nine out of every ten Taiwanese people who speak to me do so only in Chinese, with nary a word of English popped in. When a stranger somewhere does initiate conversation with me in English, they almost always revert to Chinese as soon as they realize that I’m able to communicate with them in their own language (if I feel it necessary to make them aware of that, as I may or may not depending on the circumstances). I’m quite surprised to hear that so many people insist on speaking English to you, since that’s so fundamentally different from my own experience.
In the second place, I understand that there are myriad reasons why those people who speak to me in English choose to do so. The most common of those reasons have already been well described by other posters. Most of those reasons and the thinking behind them are entirely inoffensive. If, as is extremely rare, someone who speaks to me in English does so in a contemptuous, derisory or in any other way offensive tone, I will respond as appropriate. But in all other cases, I will respect the speaker’s choice of language in which he attempts to communicate with me, and respond with however much patience, politeness and pleasure I judge to be warranted in each particular situation.
I think you are somehow a special case Omni but my experience does not match yours. Now your Chinese is obviously excellent which helps a great deal but I think maybe you are older too or work in certain circles. Basically and frankly your experience is not very relevant to younger newcomers to Taiwan.
There are some Taiwanese who actively resent one speaking Chinese, many of them come back from abroad from their 1 year Masters and just don’t seem to like it…don’t know why exactly.
My feeling on general Taiwanese speaking unwanted English verbage…their intention is not to exclude you, but the result still to points out your foreigness (and doubly annoying for somebody who is a non-native English speaker). I think racism is a strong term but it is racist in it’s most benign meaning (it could very well be selfishness more than racism, people are openly selfish here and it is a very competitive society). There is only one answer in Taiwan which is to somehow embrace your status as a foreigner here even if you have lived here a long time and understand the culture/language fairly well. They mostly just treat people as they see them and that’s it. We ‘white’ people get a better deal than many other ‘races’ in their pigeonholing, it is 10X worse for SE Asians. It’s annoying to me too but I suspect it is no different in any Asian country and quite possibly worse in many.