as i said in a previous post, i believed the OP was saying that most people who come here have degrees that have little to do with teaching of any kind, never mind teaching a second language to young children.
that said, i mentioned that i thought it would be useful to have some degree of knowledge about second language acquisition, child psych, and cross-cultural sensitivity … vannyel seems to disagree.
i take it that by not commenting on the first point you are agreeing that it is useful.
some knowledge of child psych is useful in that many people do not understand that children learn differently than do teens, who are different again from adults. children in a rich language environment do better by listening and using language rather than having a bunch of rules given to them (or screamed at them, depending on the “teacher”, and perhaps how much (s)he had to drink the night before). but from your post, i’m guessing that it’s not necessary. how exactly do you equate teaching english and parenting? most parents don’t have this degree, and most parents are english teachers, who have little/no contact with children before they come here, and thus have it all figured out beforehand? parents get the benefit of 24 hour a day exposure, to see what works and what doesn’t. most teachers i know see a class for 2 hours a week. and you’ll have a tough time convincing me that most parents aren’t going to be innately more reasonable with their own kids rather than someone else’s kids, and really show them care and compassion in learning situations. also, if it were really so simple as “play[ing] games with them that teach them english”, don’t you think there would be a greater number of successful teachers? i think there’s a little more to the job, but that’s just my experience. you can be a successful teacher without taking those kinds of courses, yet couldn’t you be a better teacher after taking them?
i also disagree with your opinion that common sense and cross-cultural sensitivity are the same thing. what is common sense back home, wherever that may be, may not be seen as such here. ever had an accident back home? ever moved your car outta the way to let the other traffic through, which is “common sense” back home? try it here, and see how far you get - 100% blame is what you’ll find. i’m not saying this is wrong, for it is the law of the land, but it doesn’t seem to require a lot of “common sense” to find that making 1000 people, or even 1 person wait stuck behind you when you could get everything moving again by getting outta the way would be better.
someone with a teaching degree from a western country might expect to meet a class full of students who are ready to put up their hands to answer any question, and are able to give their opinion when asked for it. that is usually not the case here, where kids are conditioned to listen to teachers and accept what they are told as the only truth (although this is starting to change, according to some junior high students). but a teacher coming here from the west should know these things already, b/c they are “common sense”? i fail to see that, simple as it appears to be for you.
i’m not saying that we shouldn’t look around and see how things are done, but some people don’t have the luxury of observing the native culture here for an extended period of time before they have to get to work, as you must have had. there’s a little more to it than your “course”, which is vaguely similar to those TESOL in 5 day numbers currently being offered. or is that what you are basing your reply on?
finally, keeping your mouth shut while making friends and asking questions is quite a feat. you must tell me more …
im thinking if you really want to treated like a god, then open your own school, work 12 hours a day for a few years, and then, when youve made a bundle, reinvest it into a bigger school, go into debt, hire more teachers than you need to cover the classes you used to teach…sit back, sigh, and burn grateful dead cds all day long from the internet.
thats what i did. so yes, im an earthly god, only because i treat myself kindly, and my wife doesnt have the time to MA me…after all, she’s running the school and if any teacher, be she white or not up and left for anywhere for months at a time, would find nothing but comtempt when she returned.
The first misconception is the fact that you are here as a teacher. Everything else is negated by this.
However for the sake of this discussion - if someone was required to take all the courses a real qualified teacher would have to have in order to work with children in a public school (in the U.S. at least) why on earth would they uproot themselves to travel to the other side of nowhere just to earn the same salary minus retirement benefits, decent work environment, basic human rights (as others have pointed out), etc.
Actually I think teens are still considered to be children but your point is taken; however, since most buxibans have a very strict curriculum with step by step guidelines on how they want you to teach, I don’t see how knowing that they learn differently will benefit you. Varying from school standards will only get in trouble if not fired (at least at the big chains).
As for parenting and teaching – my position is that if any idiot can have a child and be expected to raise it responsibly with approximately 16 hours of contact a day then a foreigner should be able to repeat English phrases in front of a class without causing them any great harm without the benefit of any special child psych courses.
What are you calling a successful teacher? As for the most bosses at buxibans I think the definition might be something like ‘someone who can entertain the students and keep them happy while at the same time convincing them to enroll in the next semester.’ Most foreigners here are very successful at teaching.
Sorry but I disagree…this is common courtesy…common sense is not to try to drive in a foreign country until you have observed how the locals to it and think you can do the same. Common sense is to understand that people from a different country have different ideas about life and you should observe discretely until you feel you want to give it a try. I am confused about the sensitivity stuff…what does that mean? Not throwing trash into one of those prayer money cans? That’s just common sense and respect. Not smoking in a temple…again common sense. Bowing your head if someone is leading a prayer…again just common sense and courtesy. Barging in front of others at 7-11? Well that’s a cultural difference and if you can get away with it do it…otherwise every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be jumping in front of you while you are trying to be nice…that’s common sense (after you have stood back and observed for a while).
I have never been in a class, as a student, in the west, where students would jump to raise their hands when a new teacher asked a question. They are trying to figure out the teacher and what is going to be expected of them. But to your example is good…but you are leaving out something very important…as a part of every teaching job I had here, I was expected to watch another teacher teach first so by observing, I knew the students were shy and weren’t going to volunteer anything. Not much of a shock when I took over the class. BTW…I started work 3 days after I arrived and that was only because I got here on a Friday and Monday was a holiday.
Well the idea is to keep your mouth shut until you know enough to participate…
I do understand your points but teaching English in a buxiban is not rocket science – any sober foreigner can do it. If you want to be a real teacher that’s great - the world needs more of them but your teaching experience here won’t qualify you for a teaching job back in the U.S. (or probably where ever you are from) simply because the authorities there know you aren’t really teaching here.
Taiwanese people run the schools, set the curriculum, admit the students, hire the teachers, do the advertising. If it’s fucked up, blame them.
They could of course insist on qualified experienced teachers and properly researched curriculums. Do you think parents will pay for that? Tee hee.
I can’t blame any foreigner here, clueless loafer or genius teacher, for playing the system.
Hey OP do you know how much an electrician costs here? NT$1,000 an hour. Do you know that Taiwanese “teachers” in big train station buxibans take home hundreds of thousands of NT a month? You don’t believe me do you? Do you realise why? Because the electrician who knows fuck all about electricity is in short supply and great demand, and because the buxiban teacher is skilled at preparing kids to pass memorisation exams - not “teaching” in my opinion. Both are playing the system.
I’m not an English teacher (used to be), but I’m well paid for doing very little and I love it. If my boss thinks I’m not worth my pay he’ll fire me in an instant. Good on the well-paid loafers! If the parents want to take a real interest in their child’s education and gen up on educational theory, and want to pay for “real teachers” then that’s great too. But until then, it’s silly nonsense with the kids and a fortnight in Thailand every six months. Superb.
PS when I was teaching I always lied to strangers about my salary. It was hilarious. But I have still no idea what I made. My salary would go up and down like a hooer’s drawers from month to month.
do you know enough about me or what i do to state this?
[quote]However for the sake of this discussion - if someone was required to take all the courses a real qualified teacher would have to have in order to work with children in a public school (in the U.S. at least) why on earth would they uproot themselves to travel to the other side of nowhere just to earn the same salary minus retirement benefits, decent work environment, basic human rights (as others have pointed out), etc.[/quote] that would be their decision, and frankly none of your concern. some people make choices that you may think unwise, as i’m sure you make choices that others see as folly.
this is only true up to a point, in that if you are here for more than a few months/years, and are actually teaching as opposed to entertaining, and the parents are concerned and realize this, you can do pretty much whatever you like. you can also focus time on methods and approaches that work, rather than doing what schools tell you to, which is often grammar/translation based (nuff said).
is this teaching, or just earning money by standing in front of a room? does standing and repeating accomplish anything? it’s unilkely to hurt anyone (if sheer, utter boredom doesn’t constitute “hurt”), but otherwise is worth very little. teaching requires a little bit more. maybe earning money is the point for some, but others actually are concerned that some learning takes place. not only out of responsibility to the students, but out of responsibility to oneself.
What are you calling a successful teacher? As for the most bosses at buxibans I think the definition might be something like ‘someone who can entertain the students and keep them happy while at the same time convincing them to enroll in the next semester.’ Most foreigners here are very successful at teaching.[/quote]
i’m not a bushiban boss, and my concerns extend further than next semester’s tuition payments. what you are talking about is not teaching, it’s entertaining. there is a difference. some “teachers” can also entertain, but very few “entertainers” can actually teach. i’m of the opinion that the classes that i’ve had for more than six years woulda probably stopped coming by now if they felt they hadn’t learned anything throughout the years of “entertaining”.
Sorry but I disagree…this is common courtesy…common sense is not to try to drive in a foreign country until you have observed how the locals to it and think you can do the same. Common sense is to understand that people from a different country have different ideas about life and you should observe discretely until you feel you want to give it a try.[/quote]
actually sir, most of the taiwanese i’ve talked to here think this is one of the strangest things about driving here. they also believe that moving out of the way is common sense, but are unable to do this b/c they know that they will be blamed for the accident. in fact, more than a few of them found this out the first time they had an accident and moved out of the way! they couldn’t believe that common sense got them in so much trouble. ask a few people abou this, or maybe you need more time to observe …
myself, i think that politely reminding people in mandarin to line up works better. i have also seen this done by the locals here … so which one should i choose? and where do you draw the line? should we teach kids to duke it out like the legistators here do when things don’t go their way? some people choose that way, and others don’t. you say to follow the rules of the land after watchng. i’ve seen both. which one is right? you are free to barge in with the rest of them if you feel that’s a better way of doing it.
as for the classroom situation, maybe my example was overdone, in that i don’t expect students to jump up to answer every question. however, there was more activity, at least from a few students, than you tend to get here, where students are conditioned to write down everything and memorize it, rather than thinking about it. that’s not just my opinion, btw, that’s what some of my old students have told me after going abroad to study and then coming back.
teacher, or entertainer? did they really know what they were doing? i have also watched a fair number of “teachers”.
and you knew exactly what to do with a shy class after two days of observing, and no previous teaching experience or knowledge? wow, you’re amazing. and i’m talknig about real teaching, not just how to play games and roll around on the floor for an hour, so they will keep on paying.
as i’ve pointed out, you are not talking about teaching. most sober (and some very drunk/high) foreigners can entertain kids - don’t say all b/c it just ain’t true. but actually getting students to measureably increase their ability in a language while meeting with them very infrequently actually requires knowledge about how this can be done.
you might not really be teaching (not a judgement, just based on your post), but i do my best to make sure that i am. finding out what works and what doesn’t is a little more interesting and useful than following the same old script day in and day out. also, you should put “bushiban experience”, as there are jobs here that can affect your employability back home - university work etc.
In response to Vannyel’s point about not being able to get a job back home with experience here, I have to say emphatically that you absolutely can. What kind of teaching are we talking about here? I thought we were all in this game because public school teaching isn’t for us. Perhaps it is only me. However, where I come from there are heaps of English language colleges teaching overseas students. An experienced esl instructor with overseas experience would find a job there in no time at all. I worked in these places for five years before coming here. Depending on where you live, there may be government sponsored programs that teach Englsh to new immigrants (taught in those programs too). If public school teaching were my dream (it’s not. It’s more like my nightmare), I could take a program at my alma mater that would qualify me teach in public schools (either elementary or high school teaching my major) in three semesters. We are teachers over here. Some are better and more experienced than others, but all are still engaged in something resembling teaching; therefore the title teacher fits. No, we are not public school teachers. The job is very different.
do you know enough about me or what I do to state this?[/quote]
You are right I don’t just as you don’t know about me. I have taught but I don’t now. If you are qualified teacher teaching in Taiwan, then you have nothing but my deepest sympathy.
this is only true up to a point, in that if you are here for more than a few months/years, and are actually teaching as opposed to entertaining, and the parents are concerned and realize this, you can do pretty much whatever you like. you can also focus time on methods and approaches that work, rather than doing what schools tell you to, which is often grammar/translation based (nuff said).[/quote]
I am sorry but the chain schools that I worked for made it painfully clear that any deviation from the set guidelines would mean the end of your employment.
is this teaching, or just earning money by standing in front of a room? does standing and repeating accomplish anything? it’s unilkely to hurt anyone (if sheer, utter boredom doesn’t constitute “hurt”), but otherwise is worth very little. teaching requires a little bit more. maybe earning money is the point for some, but others actually are concerned that some learning takes place. not only out of responsibility to the students, but out of responsibility to oneself.[/quote]
Cool so you teach for free. I respect that.
What are you calling a successful teacher? As for the most bosses at buxibans I think the definition might be something like ‘someone who can entertain the students and keep them happy while at the same time convincing them to enroll in the next semester.’ Most foreigners here are very successful at teaching.[/quote]
I’m not a buxiban boss, and my concerns extend further than next semester’s tuition payments. what you are talking about is not teaching, it’s entertaining. there is a difference. some “teachers” can also entertain, but very few “entertainers” can actually teach. I’m of the opinion that the classes that I’ve had for more than six years woulda probably stopped coming by now if they felt they hadn’t learned anything throughout the years of “entertaining”.[/quote]
Sorry but if you leave tomorrow the students will still come to class and they are only coming to class because the parents are making them. Of course here is where the child psych course would help. Kids bounce back…major disaster or foreign teacher leaving, they almost always bounce back.
Sorry but I disagree…this is common courtesy…common sense is not to try to drive in a foreign country until you have observed how the locals to it and think you can do the same. Common sense is to understand that people from a different country have different ideas about life and you should observe discretely until you feel you want to give it a try.[/quote]
actually sir, most of the Taiwanese I’ve talked to here think this is one of the strangest things about driving here. they also believe that moving out of the way is common sense, but are unable to do this b/c they know that they will be blamed for the accident. in fact, more than a few of them found this out the first time they had an accident and moved out of the way! they couldn’t believe that common sense got them in so much trouble. ask a few people abou this, or maybe you need more time to observe …[/quote]
I find this hard to believe since most of the Taiwanese I have met here have lived here their whole lives and know nothing of driving in another country. Perhaps I am spending time with the down to earth locals that constitue a majority while you are spending time with the priviledged ones that have a foreign passport as backup.
myself, I think that politely reminding people in Mandarin to line up works better. I have also seen this done by the locals here … so which one should I choose? and where do you draw the line? should we teach kids to duke it out like the legistators here do when things don’t go their way? some people choose that way, and others don’t. you say to follow the rules of the land after watchng. I’ve seen both. which one is right? you are free to barge in with the rest of them if you feel that’s a better way of doing it.[/quote]
Well I respect the customs of the country I am in and don’t see any reason to educate them to what is better by a western viewpoint. I do observe people lining up on occassion and I know when they are ready then they will be lining up everywhere.
Yes but that’s their culture. Why do you think it’s better for them to be like you? Isn’t that kinda like the missionaries killing Indians who refused to convert? How much damage do you want to do to convert these kids to your way of thinking? Do you plan on going to Thailand and telling them not to respect their king because it is such an outdated way to live?
teacher, or entertainer? did they really know what they were doing? I have also watched a fair number of “teachers”.[/quote]
Well as an amateur teacher only armed with a simple master’s degree looking for a job I was kinda expected to follow the rules as I pointed out earlier. Rewriting textbooks, free discussion, and even writing honest notes in their little communications books was forbidden.
and you knew exactly what to do with a shy class after two days of observing, and no previous teaching experience or knowledge? wow, you’re amazing. and I’m talknig about real teaching, not just how to play games and roll around on the floor for an hour, so they will keep on paying.[/quote]
Sure I knew. You came to work early to read over what you was expected to cover, you looked in the little games book to see what games they said you could teach to cover the points you had to cover, then you went in a taught. If you did it wrong the real person in charge, the Chinese teacher, would call you over and point it out or the boss would make you stay late to explain how you varied from what she expected you to do and tell you that this was your first warning and there would only be two more before you could find a new job. It was simple.
as I’ve pointed out, you are not talking about teaching. most sober (and some very drunk/high) foreigners can entertain kids - don’t say all b/c it just ain’t true. but actually getting students to measureably increase their ability in a language while meeting with them very infrequently actually requires knowledge about how this can be done.[/quote]
First off, I totally agree. This ain’t teaching…and 99 percent of the foreigners that come to Taiwan don’t teach, otherwise after 50 years of English teachers there wouldn’t be a need any more! I know people who have studied English for over 12 years at buxibans and quite frankly their English sucks. So if noticeable improvement means including a verb in a sentence then you are right, if you’re waiting for the correct article then I am sorry, it’s not going to happen 9 times out of 10.
you might not really be teaching (not a judgement, just based on your post), but I do my best to make sure that I am. finding out what works and what doesn’t is a little more interesting and useful than following the same old script day in and day out. also, you should put “buxiban experience”, as there are jobs here that can affect your employability back home - university work etc.[/quote]
I am not teaching, not as a pretend teacher, entertainer or anything else. There is a poster on here that details how his YEARS of teaching in Taiwan and how he couldn’t get a job back in the U.S. based on this experience. I believe he is back in Taiwan now. It’s plain and simple, without teaching credential recognized by the individual states and federal government, teaching in Taiwan means nothing for your resume. That’s just a fact. Sorry.
I also apologize if I come across to strongly. My online persona isn’t my better side. But I do wish you well in all your endeavors.
Having never returned to the U.S. after teaching in Taiwan I was basing my comments on a couple of things…first you need at least a master’s degree to teach at a college so adding your Taiwan teaching experience still requires you to get a master’s; second on the experiences of others…
[quote]Returning to the United States after a few years in Taiwan can be a wrenching experience. When I got back and moved down to Austin, Texas, I applied to the alternative teacher certification program there, thinking that with my diverse background and wide range of skills, any program would be happy to have me. Despite my qualifications (ten years teaching English, experience as a teacher trainer, former Peace Corps volunteer, high school and college teaching experience, etc) I could not make the cut of 250 candidates out of 750. They apparently found 250 people better-qualified to enter a teacher training program than this writer. The program’s hilarious position was that they could only take 250 because more trainees would have problems finding work. This is in a state with a teacher shortage of 40,000 and growing.
Now you know why they are short 40,000 teachers here in Texas. As if to underscore the stupidity of the system in Texas, Austin was forced to implement large salary increases the year I left, because the city is short hundreds of teachers. Perhaps I should be happy I didn’t get the opportunity to work there…
The moral is: if you have strong qualifications, go to another state. The program in Texas has very serious problems.
Postscript: in May of '01 I ran into another person, a former Peace Corps teacher with teaching certification in three countries, foreign languages, MA in biology, who wanted into the program as a science teacher and was also rejected. What does it take?[/quote] users2.ev1.net/%7Eturton/return.html
Now as TS points out, you can take a three semester program that would qualify someone to teach in high school, etc. but then again you could take this before coming to Taiwan therefore your experience doesn’t qualify you to teach in the public school system of the U.S.
i’m going to cut out the quotes, as anyone interested can go back to your latest response…
so you’ve only worked for places that asked you follow like sheep. that may be saying these places thought they had it right, or they didn’t trust the people they hired enough to bring in outside material. if i had only followed the curriculum at my school, i woulda lost my long-term classes a long time ago. that’s from an anonymous set of questions that i put out to a few classes worth of students, not from intuition. in fact, i haven’t opened the “main” text with them for about six months, because it really doesn’t apply/appeal to them. i will use some of the other books that i’m supplied with, because i find them useful in developing writing skills or whatever, but i’m not going to bore students to tears each week forcing them to deal with material that for them is very non-authentic.
the chinese teacher does take some time with said main book, but she only does it to “keep up with the appointed schedule”, and even she brings in outside stuff for them. and even knowing this, the school has asked me numerous times to teach the class alone, because the numbers have gone down as they reach senior high/university age. that’s not parents pulling them out, that’s students without time to make it to class, usually due to other cram schools schedules, where they find they need more help (math etc.)
reading my line about money outta context is the only way you coulda put something in about teaching for free. however, on that point, my school doesn’t pay mountains of money, but they leave me alone to teach, which i find rewarding in itself. so i take a few more private classes to make up for the “lower pay”. recently married, i don’t need to stay there at all, but i’m not done with those students who have stuck with me for this long. when they eventually leave (yes, i know they will), then i can take whatever hours i want, as i don’t really like teaching beginners level any more.
yes vannyel, most kids would keep coming if i left, although the more senior ones tend to quit if the classes close. still get emails and cards years later from them though, even kids who went to new classes. that suggests that they weren’t only there because they had to be.
i’m wondering if in your previous teaching history you’ve ever taken over a class from a lousy teacher. i’ve gotten saddled with quite a few, and while kids do have the ability to bounce back, it’s amazing what a year or two will do to their motivation to learn. it’s takes a long time to “fix” one of these classes, although sometimes a few students get into it faster. and there have been times when i couldn’t do anything about the class. maybe i didn’t go about it the right way, but i went about it based on what i’ve learned works, which is a hell of a lot more than the boss’ quote to “play more games”.
my wife is still howling about being called “priviledged”. a bowl of noodles outside the home was a big deal when she was growing up, yet she isn’t down to earth. that’s really an uninformed comment. (i don’t know one taiwanese with a foreign passport. i do know a few who have been abroad to study.) something that doesn’t fit your model of what taiwanese is gets dismissed. cute. however, if you want to, keep deluding yourself that only you are with the “real” people. (and your “perhaps” doesn’t negate this tone.)
do you notice, in your noticing, that there are lines of people almost everywhere, and many people do wait? some natives here ask people to line up when they jump the gun. i repeat what i asked you earlier - which way is right? both happen here. you seem to know the answers, so …
this one i have to quote:
[quote]
Yes but that’s their culture. Why do you think it’s better for them to be like you? Isn’t that kinda like the missionaries killing Indians who refused to convert? How much damage do you want to do to convert these kids to your way of thinking? Do you plan on going to Thailand and telling them not to respect their king because it is such an outdated way to live?[/quote]
really learning a second language require more than passive listening to any teacher, whether they be excellent, average, or an entertainer. that’s a fact. that’s what i’m talking about. but you move on to educating people about kings and religious converting… where was that in any of the previous discussion? what does it have to do with SLA?
you know, i completely agree with you that many people here end to crap on taiwan, and complain about some third-world little backwater. i don’t see it as such; if i had, i woulda left a long time ago. i think you are bang on in that respect. yet i don’t condsider it a utopia either, and can consider that some things could use a change. espeically the way english is taught here. it’s only my opinion, however.[/quote][/list]
I will keep this as short as possible…
my comments about missionaries and converting people was in response to what I perceived as a judgment by you that somehow your way (or the western way) was better than the way it is done here where students are conditioned to write down everything and memorize it. Actually I wish I had learned to memorize things better as a kid. I still have trouble remembering names, etc.
[quote=“xtrain_1”]actually sir, most of the Taiwanese I’ve talked to here think this is one of the strangest things about driving here. they also believe that moving out of the way is common sense, but are unable to do this b/c they know that they will be blamed for the accident.
[quote=“Vannyel”]
I find this hard to believe since most of the Taiwanese I have met here have lived here their whole lives and know nothing of driving in another country. Perhaps I am spending time with the down to earth locals that constitue a majority while you are spending time with the priviledged ones that have a foreign passport as backup.
First I apologize if I insulted your wife. But my contention is – how can most of the Taiwanese you have met complain about something if they have never known anything else?? If they have never lived abroad how can they complain about the traffic in Taiwan? What can they compare it with? The traffic in Kenting?
Unlike in the West, where in most major cities society is heterogeneous, Taiwan is much more homogeneous and quite a few people suffer from an undeserved inferiority complex so a foreigner correcting their behavior is not a simple thing. Of course if you feel comfortable doing so then by all means do so. Also unlike in the West, this behavior (correcting someone) does not have the possible violent ramifications (should you ever visit a major city in the U.S. and encounter rude, loud individuals I would suggest you refrain from the urge to ask them to be quiet or not jump line).
Bearing all this in mind, I don’t correct people or ask the to wait in line – I just ask them if all people are as rude as they are – if I am having a bad day, or if it is a very old person then I just glare at them. Normally I chose not do to anything…I like the Taiwanese person they jumped in front of handle it. In the scheme of life, rude people have very little impact on me.
I don’t consider it a utopia either. Sorry if I gave that impression. I laud your efforts at teaching and wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately since foreigners have been teaching English in Taiwan for decades, I am afraid you are facing an uphill battle but you seem happy and that is what is most important (to me). Followed secondly by the fact that I know without a doubt that in all likelihood I must someday leave Taiwan and if I spend all my time teaching English here, in all probablity, it will not help my career prospects when I leave.
This is very true especially for liberal arts degrees.
You came to Taiwan with a master’s and some knowledge about education…and you signed up with chain schools that were more impressed with your ability to jump through hoops with their lame curriculum than to actually teach kids practical English? And to top it off, you actually stuck with these schools after realizing this?
That’s like someone sticking his finger in a meat grinder and then preaching that they should be outlawed instead of realizing not everyone is as big of a buffoon to do something stupid like that. It certainly explains why you are clueless about and embittered toward people who work for good schools where children are actually educated in real English rather than simply regurgitating rules and multiple-choice answers. Ah, yes, cowboy English, you know, the kind of English “spoken” by the shopkeeper who cannot even tell you the price of your meal. I wonder what kind of an instution would give post-graduate degrees to willing stooges like you? No wonder you think it’s better to work at a 7-11 than to teach English. For someone so willing to scrape the bottom of the employment barrel, it actually makes sense.
Let’s face it, if developing critical thinking skills was such a bad idea, then why is Japan completely revamping its education system in order to do so (and conversely, why is the US getting worse scores in education and having more kids fall through the cracks as they push standardized testing and push teachers to teach according to what’s on tests rather than use a freer, more kinesthetic curriculum that teaches skills beyond filling in the right circle on a scantron sheet)?
Anyway, I’ve always been of the opinion that there’s a more subtle reason why they call them chain schools.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]Let’s see if I got this right, Vannyel.
You came to Taiwan with a master’s and some knowledge about education…and you signed up with chain schools that were more impressed with your ability to jump through hoops with their lame curriculum than to actually teach kids practical English? And to top it off, you actually stuck with these schools after realizing this?
[/quote]
Actually I stopped reading your post after this sentence…since you assumed I stuck with them…I quit as soon as I realized what it was like. Which is why I don’t teach in Taiwan. You really should refrain from making such harsh judgments of people you don’t know and about things which you obviously don’t have a clue.
(This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education)
Have a nice day. Best of luck in France.
[quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“ImaniOU”]Let’s see if I got this right, Vannyel.
You came to Taiwan with a master’s and some knowledge about education…and you signed up with chain schools that were more impressed with your ability to jump through hoops with their lame curriculum than to actually teach kids practical English? And to top it off, you actually stuck with these schools after realizing this?
[/quote]
Actually I stopped reading your post after this sentence…since you assumed I stuck with them…I quit as soon as I realized what it was like. Which is why I don’t teach in Taiwan. You really should refrain from making such harsh judgments of people you don’t know and about things which you obviously don’t have a clue.
(This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education)
Have a nice day. Best of luck in France.[/quote]
This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education–or, for that matter, you!
[quote=“TS”][quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“ImaniOU”]Let’s see if I got this right, Vannyel.
You came to Taiwan with a master’s and some knowledge about education…and you signed up with chain schools that were more impressed with your ability to jump through hoops with their lame curriculum than to actually teach kids practical English? And to top it off, you actually stuck with these schools after realizing this?
[/quote]
Actually I stopped reading your post after this sentence…since you assumed I stuck with them…I quit as soon as I realized what it was like. Which is why I don’t teach in Taiwan. You really should refrain from making such harsh judgments of people you don’t know and about things which you obviously don’t have a clue.
(This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education)
Have a nice day. Best of luck in France.[/quote]
This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education–or, for that matter, you![/quote]
So this is how you go through life – judging other people without knowing them…oops, wait a minute there is a term for that…let’s see…has it slipped my mind, nope, here it comes prejudice. So Mr. TS who doesn’t want to be prejudged by his Taiwanese hosts is ready to jump right out there and do the same thing to someone else…typical foreigner attitude…shoot now, ask questions later. Exactly what do you and ImaniOU know about me besides what I’ve posted here? I am curious.
You claim to have worked for multiple chain schools, pretended to have a clear idea of what teachers make in California, and came to the conclusion that people are better off in a minimum wage job at 7-11 than in teaching English (I notice that one hasn’t come up again). A prejudiced school will let you know (whether by lying, disappearing, or flat out tell you) that they won’t hire you, if you aren’t the right color. You, however have given us over 1,300 examples of how little you know about teaching English in Taiwan.
I would have thought that someone who claims to be as educationally and intellectually superior as you come off in your posts would at least have the brains to have come up with a better plan than to keep working for lousy chains and that if you are as well-learned about education as you claim that you would have thought to stay with them only until you could find something much better rather than repeating the same bad experience at another bad school. I find it hard to believe that someone who holds a master’s and is an “amateur teacher” (truer words were never spoken) would continue to seek out schools which didn’t offer what he was looking for. An FOB with a fake degree only looking to score some easy cash with as little work as possible, but certainly not someone who actually had teaching experience and should have therefore known what to look for or at least what to ask. That leads me to two conclusions: either you lie about your credentials or you are a fool with no room to complain about the crappy situations that you chose to get yourself into repeatedly.
[quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“TS”][quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“ImaniOU”]Let’s see if I got this right, Vannyel.
You came to Taiwan with a master’s and some knowledge about education…and you signed up with chain schools that were more impressed with your ability to jump through hoops with their lame curriculum than to actually teach kids practical English? And to top it off, you actually stuck with these schools after realizing this?
[/quote]
Actually I stopped reading your post after this sentence…since you assumed I stuck with them…I quit as soon as I realized what it was like. Which is why I don’t teach in Taiwan. You really should refrain from making such harsh judgments of people you don’t know and about things which you obviously don’t have a clue.
(This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education)
Have a nice day. Best of luck in France.[/quote]
This is the point where I refrain from making some snide remark about the quality of your education–or, for that matter, you![/quote]
So this is how you go through life – judging other people without knowing them…oops, wait a minute there is a term for that…let’s see…has it slipped my mind, nope, here it comes prejudice. So Mr. TS who doesn’t want to be prejudged by his Taiwanese hosts is ready to jump right out there and do the same thing to someone else…typical foreigner attitude…shoot now, ask questions later. Exactly what do you and ImaniOU know about me besides what I’ve posted here? I am curious.[/quote]
Actually, Mr Vannyel, I know very little about you except what I read on these boards. I don’t like what I see. You are excessively argumentative, provoke flame-outs, belittle other people, are disrespectful of others’ viewpoints, seem to want the last word no matter what and–to top it off-- you’re just rude.
I wrote my last post, borrowing your style, to feed back a little of that negative energy you’ve been dishing out. Don’t like it? I’m sure those on the receiving end of your attacks don’t either. Now have a nice day.
You claim to have worked for multiple chain schools, pretended to have a clear idea of what teachers make in California, and came to the conclusion that people are better off in a minimum wage job at 7-11 than in teaching English (I notice that one hasn’t come up again).
I would have thought that someone who claims to be as educationally and intellectually superior as you come off in your posts would at least have the brains to have come up with a better plan than to keep working for lousy chains and that if you are as well-learned about education as you claim that you would have thought to stay with them only until you could find something much better rather than repeating the same bad experience at another bad school. That leads me to two conclusions: either you lie about your credentials or you are a fool with no room to complain about the crappy situations that you chose to get yourself into repeatedly.
So which is it?[/quote]
Actually all it means is that you still have trouble comprehending simple English and a chip on your shoulder the size of Mt. Everest. So I will do my best to make this simple for you…
I worked for two chain schools…which I have explained in other posts…and I worked a total of 6 months before I knew the score and moved on.
I never pretended to know what California school teachers made…I looked on the internet and posted what the NEA said they made and I said they should know better than you since they are a professional organization with thousands of members and you are one person.
I also posted the information that employees at 7-11 can participate in stock options, retirement plans, have the chance of advancement, etc…and you are saying that is not better than teaching in Taiwan. So be. Are you planning on withdrawing all of your funds from your 401K at your school when you leave or letting it rollover?
As for educationally and intellectually superior, where did you dream this up? I stated I have a masters that is it and it’s a fact. I never claimed to be intellectually superior to anyone but obviously I am better at research, reading, and basic deductive reasoning than you are.
[quote=“TS”]
Actually, Mr Vannyel, I know very little about you except what I read on these boards. I don’t like what I see. You are excessively argumentative, provoke flame-outs, belittle other people, are disrespectful of others’ viewpoints, seem to want the last word no matter what and–to top it off-- you’re just rude.
I wrote my last post, borrowing your style, to feed back a little of that negative energy you’ve been dishing out. Don’t like it? I’m sure those on the receiving end of your attacks don’t either. Now have a nice day.[/quote]
Well you obviously share the same condition with ImaniOU - you selectively read a few post then go off the deep end because your fragile ego is threatened. I am not argumentative, I point out the other side of the story, flame-outs? - I don’t invite them, small minded people feel threatened and lash out. Disrepectful of others viewpoints - well if you have a coin in your pocket check it out - there are two sides. The last word…well once again you have selective reading - there are several discussions I have left. As for being rude…well that’s a matter of opinion - and you know what they say about opinions, they are just like a**holes, everyone has one and it usually stinks.
Actually I only recall a couple of posts that I made that expressed such negativity as your post…ImaniOU is one, since everytime I post something she seems to feel the need to lash out without bothering to read what I posted, hexuan when he said I hadn’t been here long enough to have an opinion about Taiwan, and now you. Maybe there were more but I doubt very seriously if it comes to anywhere near 50% of the time…so let’s see forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#281414 forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#281135 forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#281045
this one is really argumentative forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#281045
wow…maybe it was this one that was so bad forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#179292
nah, must have been this one forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … yel#126266
or maybe my post here forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … ht=#280752
No, sorry, it had to be this one forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … ht=#115788
Nope this one… forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … ght=#99918
Wow, you are right every single post I have ever made as been nothing but argumenative and disrespectful but nothing tops it like this one… forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … nse#245805
Yep, that was the nastiest of them all…
Have a nice day.
and if any teacher, be she white or not up and left for anywhere for months at a time, would find nothing but comtempt when she returned.