Why do you like Taiwan? **beware: rants inside

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Here’s a Taiwanese-national with a serious case of cultural identity complex.

Having spent most of my short life so far abroad, and having recently returned for an extended stay in Taiwan, I’ve come to view Taiwan as the least attractive place I know. I loath Taiwan’s politics and media in general, I find Taiwan’s fashion, music, films, commercial and pop culture in general to be trashy, tasteless and behind, I see Taiwanese, in general, as close-minded, uncultured, tasteless, unmannered, unruly, irrational, vulgar, violent, selfish, cheap, short-sighted, offensive, hypocritical and stupid, I hate the weather, I hate the dirty streets and dirty buildings, I hate the traffic, the scooters, the drivers and the pedestrians, I can’t stand the elitist and commercial attitude of the art scene, I can’t stand the horrible state of Taiwan’s personal and public hygiene, I can’t stand the overwhelming inclination toward superstition, and I thoroughly detests Taiwanese’ self-important attitude regarding Taiwan.

In short, I don’t really really like Taiwan, kind of.

About the only things I enjoy in Taiwan are 1) the occasional delicacies (though they rarely survive repeat tasting well), 2) the tea and 3) the few unspoiled scenic spots.

I’ve lived in several countries, and I readily agree that some of the faults I mentioned above are shared by others as well. However, I see Taiwan as having the most complete colletions of things that disgust me. I’m also aware of the irony of some of my accusations (such as simultaneously accusing the pop culture to be trashy and the art scene to be elitist), so I spare me the criticisms. (Or not, I humbly submit to your judgment.)

Of course, I neither think or am saying that there aren’t open-minded/cultured/mannered/refined/tasteful/ratinoal/generous/agreeable/smart people in Taiwan, but to my knowledge they either gained these traits from their experience abroad or they are (wisely) trying to leave, or have left, Taiwan to seek better environment. I dislike Taiwan to such extent, in fact, that I’ve come to dislike all the foreigners that live here. I mean, who in their right mind would willingly come to stay in this sorry excuse of an country?

I know, I know, this is all terribly close-minded, arrogant, and not to mention self-loathing of me to attack Taiwan like this. And it’s precisely because I realized my own close-mindedness, I’d like to ask the foreigners living, or lived, or planning to live, in Taiwan, and wouldn’t mind continuing to live here: just what is it that you like so much about Taiwan? And along that line, how many of you who, through various reasons (such as marrying a Taiwanese spouse), have come to settled in Taiwan only to be driven mad by the sheer ugliness of the place?

Again, my opinions are mine, and I state them as such. (Although my opinions are as good as facts for me.) I realize that they might be offensive to some, or many, and I apoligize in advance. Hell, I certainly wasn’t being careful with my language or even being logical when I was rambling. Anyways, if you still feel the uncontrollable urge to berate me personally, feel free. I sure asked for it.

But, really, I’d love to hear about just what are the things that you foreigners like about this f–king cesspool.

2

I don’t think the OP is trolling. It’s sure to rile some feathers, but IMO most of what the OP is saying is not that outrageous. Now the onus is on us foreigners who have settled here to prove that Taiwan has some good points.
I’m presently very happy here, but believe me I’ve been through some low points. I do agree, however, with almost everything the OP wrote.

3

Why do we have to keep proving it has good points is my question. Some people love it others dont. Why fight it.

4

I definately think that there are some HUGELY annoying things here is Taiwan. I try to balance the pros and cons. I realise that the people will never change, and the political situation will take a while to show any results.

Things i love:
1.)The amazing food.
2.)Some of the most beautiful mountain scenery.
3.)Easy open packets(All the plastic packets that things come in are so simple to open, no more tearing with your teeth!)
3.)Cheap living expenses
4.)Milk Tea from a drink stand with those awsome little balls at the bottom!(anyone know what those are made of?)

The list of things i hate will remain unwritten for now…

5

Tapioca. And you can get zhen1zhu1nai3cha2 in most decent-sized cities in the US at least…?

Wise words! Why dwell on the negative?

6

Things I love:
1.)The amazing food. Usually, only on Mondays they always serve bones in meat sauce.
2.)Some of the most beautiful women scenery.
3.)Easy to swallow food (Besides Monday food, all things are soft and simple to get down the throat, no more using your teeth!)
3.)Cheap living expenses
4.)Amazing fruit juice from a drink stand

The list of things I hate have been written before and before…yearn

No, bobhonestly, Taiwan is different to the West, thus some things get on your bubble-tea balls here, when you are accustomed to the West. But it is a damned impressive country. People are a lot different. In some way they seem to be “not thinking much/gormless” as they do not care so much for [clean environment in Taipei, better organized public sector…], BUT on the other hand they are fast in business, have built a country with hardly any street crime, unemployment people usually find a way to make bucks by a food stall, fine integration of disabled people … etc.

The gals are the best. Sigh.
[Edit: especially my wife of course]

7

[quote]Again, my opinions are mine, and I state them as such. (Although my opinions are as good as facts for me.) I realize that they might be offensive to some, or many, and I apoligize in advance. Hell, I certainly wasn’t being careful with my language or even being logical when I was rambling. Anyways, if you still feel the uncontrollable urge to berate me personally, feel free. I sure asked for it.

But, really, I’d love to hear about just what are the things that you foreigners like about this f–king cesspool.[/quote]

Why would you possibly want to know why I like Taiwan? I mean, in light of what you wrote, why would you possible care to know?

It’s quite clear you hate the place. Now please go away!

And if you are trolling… shame on you!

8

I’m unsure why you want foreigner’s opinions only. Many TW people have been abroad and they come back and do not hate Taiwan. Many foreigners choose to stay here for various reasons, some of which are aesthetic.

Simply, mosy of stay here because it is preferable to where we came from…again, for a variety of reasons. The human bean can adapt to any given situation and environment, why should Taiwan be so different?

How do I deal with the trash throwing out the window blue truck drivers, inconsiderateness and lack of common sense in Taiwan? The same damn way I deal with gluttony, arrogance and enormous girls wearing low jeans and thongs in New York:

I try to smile my way out of it. :slight_smile:

ps: why did you come back if you were away for so long? Just curious.

9

Troll.

I doubt it unless you are talking about the beautiful looking women.

There is nothing really to disagree with at least generally. The people I have met here though tend to be the smartest and kindest people I have met anywhere - I do sometimes wonder if they are the exception instead of the norm.

It’s all relative though, Iraq I here isn’t the nicest of places right now.

10

Taiwan has treated me very well over the years, and I generally enjoy living here. There are times though… Last week I was riding home on my bike and nearly got hit by a chicken bone flung down from an apartment building. Some idiot eating his fried chicken on his balcony who feels the it’s better to wing his garbage out into the street than throw it in the trash can. Then I get back to my building to find a big splatter of binglang write in the middle of the entrance to the courtyard. It’s a beautiful little garden with a fish pond and waterfall, and somebody spits their beetlenut juice right on the shiny white tiles. I nearly stepped in it.

I was irate for a few minutes, then I managed to laugh about it, and myself for getting angry. It would make a great video game: get home from work without being hit by chicken bones, spit on, stepping in dog crap, being hit by vehicles in the wrong lane… the list could go on.

In general, I have to say I love living in Taiwan despite it’s shortcomings.

11

Well, I didn’t demand a “prove” of the good points, I simply ask for your opnions so that I may widen mine.

So you are the kind of foreigner I’m looking for, the ones genuinely impressed by Taiwan. Would you mind elaborating further on this? (Or did you already?)

Obviously, given my opinion of Taiwanese people, I can’t possibly buy into their opinion on Taiwan.

Aesthetic reasons? How surprising. I was going to write that Taiwan is an aesthetically bankrupt country. What’s youre aesthetic reasons?

Family reasons. Which, again, reminds me that I am, indeed, a Taiwanese after all.

Perhaps I didn’t explain myself enough. I want to know your reasons why you like Taiwan precisely because I don’t like Taiwan. Rather, why would I care why you like Taiwan if I already know what’s likable about Taiwan? To put it another way, I’m looking for something beautiful in this place that I’ve perhaps overlooked.

That’s how I’ve been dealing with it so far. But unlike a foreigner, I can never break cleanly from what is ostensibly my homeland…

Interesting. I thought I’d explained my position and my purpose quite clearly. Still, I suppose the troll-lovers will find trolls whereever they look.

Anyway.

Unlike how many of you seem to assume, I don’t see myself as being particularly westernized or even Americanized. I’ve lived in a handful of cities in the west as well as several places in Asia. I sure feel foreign here, though.

Again, each place had its ups and downs, but like I said, Taiwan has the most complete collection of things that disgust me, and with few ups to speak of. The reason I made the post wasn’t so much to voice my opinion but to solicit yours. I’m really looking for something in Taiwan that a foreigner may come to love so much that they decide to stay, since I might have to do the same one day.

And lastly, at the risk of further trolling, I’ve had an encounter with some foreigners that further reinforce my dislike of the foreigners in Taiwan. I was at a movie and four white guys saw it proper to comment quite loudly, from beginning to end, about each and every shot on screen. Having also recently read the Temple Sex thread, I’ve come to an conclusion/hypothesis that some foreigners have picked up some Taiwanese habits, and being somewhat tolerated/excused as a forigner, they’ve turboboosted these bad habits folds beyond what the locals are accustomed to…

Again, just my opinion. And even I can readily admit that it’s not a particularly well thought-out one. I don’t demand agreement, and I can appreciate any rebuttle.

12

[quote]

I doubt it unless you are talking about the beautiful looking women.[/quote]

Oh I dunno. Being in close proximity to something nice isn’t too difficult to do. Living in Hualien, or Kenting is not done for the outstanding nightlife. It’s location location location. Tienmu is very attractive, as are parts of Taipei, Ilan (great parks) and Taichung.

Yesterday the wife and son and I drove out to Bali for lunch and a walk along the river park. Nice. And we drove route 15 back home, along the seashore with lots of places to stop. Uncrowded.

I think you just have to know where and when to go.

13

Unlike the Taiwanese who chatter/use phones/eat noisily/let their kids run around nearly every time I go to the flicks.

[quote]Having also recently read the Temple Sex thread, I’ve come to an conclusion/hypothesis that some foreigners have picked up some Taiwanese habits, and being somewhat tolerated/excused as a forigner, they’ve turboboosted these bad habits folds beyond what the locals are accustomed to…
[/quote]

Quite possibly, but I wouldn’t pat too much attention to The Temple thread, as the author is known for being a bit of an idiot when posting sometimes.

Why do you dislike foreigners in Taiwan? Are you somehow subscribing to the stereotypical view of foreigners as loud, noisy and smelly people that dirty the already filthy street of Taiwan, that many Taiwanese hold.

I would expect, seeing that you have lived abroad for most of your time, that you should be able to distance yourself from generalisations about Taiwan, the Taiwanese and the foreigners that come to Taiwan and see things from a case by case basis.
All you have done in your posts is generalise.

Don’t get me wrong, alot of the foreigners here are discusting low-lifes, but I think the majority are nice upstanding people - especially the people I have met due to this site.

The same could be said for the Taiwanese in many cases.

What country did you reside in before?

14

Uly,
I’m just wondering. Why are you in Taiwan? Business? Pleasure? Work? Family? I’m just asking 'cause you sound profoundly unhappy and pissed off… perhaps on the verge of a messy suicide? Take it easy mate! One of two things will happen: You will either lose it completety and do something really stupid (very likely if I look at your posts), or you will gradually learn to accept things here. I mean why stress and make yourself miserable? You don’t honestly think you and I, and all the foreigners together, will change the things you find unacceptable do you?

Uly wrote:

Let’s hope this day never arrives…

15

my prove it comment was simply based on the fact this site is full of ‘pro’ v ‘con’ arguements about taiwan. search around a bit and you will uncover the fact arguement has been had many times before.

i like:

taiwans natural beauty, outside the cities. the east cost and central parts of taiwan (among others) are insanely beautiful
the food
the people
the ability to find biz opportunities at every corner
my friends - foreign and local

you do sound pissed off, so my comment of why fight it still stands. you sound like you are fighting an uphill battle, but hopefully you can find something to like about the place. i myself am moving back to taiwan from australia soon. if you are still around i would be more than happy to show you the parts i love the most.

16

A friend’s aunt-in-law who has lived in Taiwan for over 20 years due to her husband’s business told my friend that every day in Taiwan (Taipei) is like having a little death. :help:

How’s that for hyperbole :astonished:

I think people need to come to grips with Taiwan for what it is. Then the rants about it usually just go away and you can focus on the important things in life. It’s kind of like, ok, you come to Taiwan, you trip and fall, shocked about Taiwan and its culture. But you still have to get off the ground and keep moving. Staying on the ground is well, your own problem. Don’t transfer it and blame something/one else for you being on the ground still.

I know … the problem is getting off the ground sometimes. Some folks need assistance. Some folks can’t adjust. Some folks will just suffer quietly. Some folks will go nuts, virtually-speaking. Some folks, just strap on their helmets and get moving. YMMV.

17

Pros:

gurls R really hot

Cons:

Really really dirty air, and super ugly tetris buildings.

The above are my reasons for staying this long, as well as my reasons for leaving in the upcoming summer.

This place is great for finding hotties to take back, but I agree, I’d feel odd raising kids in this atmosphere…I;d want my family to have the same clean facilities that I had when I was growing up, which I don;t think they could access here. Don’t forget ugly, the foreigners that choose to stay here, usually they are supreme loserz back home or they are making soo much money here , they can compensate and upgrade to a really rich lifestyle effectively importing their foreign luxuries to suit their tastes, so they may give u a skewed perspective…

Once again, I should iterate, some nice hotties to be had. :wink:

18

I think that’s a load of bollocks. Can you justify this statement?

19

little death = petite mort (Fr) = orgasm

So, that means she thinks that every day here is orgasmic?

20

I think that’s a load of bollocks. Can you justify this statement?[/quote]

:bravo: DM…

To Webdoctors could it have occured to you that although some of us do find the xiaojies here attractive that is not why we are here?

I can assure you too that I am not a loser back home, and I can spell properly like real grown ups and everything.

Gurlz ? Loserz? WTF??

As to why I like Taiwan. I’d echo some of the views already said… nice people, food… great scenery… and its not the horror I found in Korea (read elsewhere if you can be arsed)