[quote=“Vorkosigan”]
For example, for 300 years the Chinese themselves termed the Manchus a “foreign dynasty.” It’s all a matter of perspective.
Vorkosigan[/quote]
taiwan was one province of the Manchu empire, and like many others primarily populated by Hans. Should they all be independent entities today?
[quote=“cmdjing”]As to why the PRC chooses to block Taiwan in every diplomatic engagement, the answer is simply that the CCP does not want any other PROVINCE OR REGION TO TRY TO SECEDE OR BREAK AWAY. IF THEY LET TAIWAN GO< THEY THINK, THERE GOES THE NATION…
As to the notion that everyone in the PRC is some kind of mindless communist drone, I am afraid you should exercise more your allegedly “free” intellect.
[/quote]
QUOTED ABOVE: “As to the notion that everyone in the PRC is some kind of mindless communist drone, I am afraid you should exercise more your allegedly “free” intellect.”
Not everyone in the PRC, just every government official, operative and media spokesmen. The people are free and unfettered, it’s the govt apparatchiks who are brainwashed. Same was true of old USSR, the people always were cool and full of life, it was the OFFICIALS who ran the place down…
dalton,
what is the difference between “signed away” and “stolen”? yes, japan did “steal” away some former chinese areas. taiwan wasn’t one. does the treaty of versailles fall into some thing that was signed or stolen? the stolen areas were returned. areas ceded in perpetuity were not.
taiwan was given away forever by china to japan. once you give something away, it ain’t so easy to take it back.if a nation desires to be of rule of law instead of rule of man, adhering to international treaties is a good place to begin. follow the paper work and treaties. ambiguity falls by the wayside. the US holds taiwan in trust until the time is right for final resolution. such is not a secret. why aren’t taiwanese marching in the streets demanding for the decision to be finalized by D.C.?
china knows taiwan will be given over by the US. until then, china will use this division to augment national unity on the mainland.
[quote=“skeptic yank”]dalton,
what is the difference between “signed away” and “stolen”? yes, Japan did “steal” away some former Chinese areas. taiwan wasn’t one. does the treaty of versailles fall into some thing that was signed or stolen? the stolen areas were returned. areas ceded in perpetuity were not.
taiwan was given away forever by China to Japan. once you give something away, it ain’t so easy to take it back.if a nation desires to be of rule of law instead of rule of man, adhering to international treaties is a good place to begin. follow the paper work and treaties. ambiguity falls by the wayside. the US holds taiwan in trust until the time is right for final resolution. such is not a secret. why aren’t Taiwanese marching in the streets demanding for the decision to be finalized by D.C.?
China knows taiwan will be given over by the US. until then, China will use this division to augment national unity on the mainland.[/quote]
it was china’s, japan started the war and stole it, a prelude to the thefts and attacks of the next 50 years. when japan fell china regained its lost territory, i see no reason why taiwan should be excluded, certainly not because it was signed over under duress. the idea that the us somehow took it over after the war to me is beyond ridiculous.
[quote=“Hartzell”]
Why does the PRC treat Taiwan this way?[/quote]
A better question would be why does America treat (insert third-world or developing nation here) this way?
Big countries enjoy sticking it to the smaller one’s because they can. It doesn’t have to be fair or make sense.
[quote=“daltongang”][quote=“Vorkosigan”]
For example, for 300 years the Chinese themselves termed the Manchus a “foreign dynasty.” It’s all a matter of perspective.
Vorkosigan[/quote]
taiwan was one province of the Manchu empire, and like many others primarily populated by Hans. Should they all be independent entities today?[/quote]
Was Taiwan really “primarily populated by Hans”? When did Han Chinese become a majority in Taiwan?
Taiwan should be compared to other frontier regions like Yunnan. There was a line somwhere near Zhudong that marked the end of Han law. Behind that line, aboriginal law prevailed.
My understanding is that the Hans pushed Aboriginal people off the plains and into the hills soon after they began coming here in numbers around the end of the Ming. I imagine there has been a Han majority since then.
I think calling all Hans “Chinese” is like calling all Slavs “Russian” or all Germanic people “German”.
A Hoklo has less in common with a Hong Konger than a Serb has with a Croat.
A brief FYI to Richard and others here:
A US think tank Hudson Institute Senior Fellow named Constantine Menges, is writing a book now titled CHINA: THE GATHERING THREAT, a look at the strategic alliance between China and Russia, which hopes to alert citizens and government leaders in the USA to the threats posed by the largest-standing Communist country from an entirely new perspective. It will be published in 2005.
WOW, yet another book written by another schmuck from another think tank about another menace to America.
DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!
/sarcasm
Sorry if I sound a bit jaded, but honest to god most of these improbable scenarios are written by Tom Clancy wannabees or second-rate scholars. Actually I would say third-rate since even second rate scholars publish their works primarily in peer reviewed academic journals rather than what is in essence the “made for TV” style of publishing. At the very least, I hope it will be more entertaining than the latest batch of “middle-brow” crash books on geopolitics. The plethora of books released within the last few years relating to Islamic fundamentalism and the middle east have gotten a tad stale.
Got to agree here with the previous poster. Frankly if there are any two countries where the expansionist dreams of one overcrowded gorilla on the make are going to cause trouble with their “we’ve got a lot” (even if we don’t know what to do with it" neighbor it has to be China and Russia. Vladivostock is almost a Chinese colony anyway these days. Strategic alliance my backside!
The PRC does whatever it wants to the ROC because… now brace yourself for this one… IT CAN.
Kinda like the US and the rest of the world. The US can do whatever it wants because it wears the biggest boot and can put it whichever ass it sees fit.
Does anyone see that the treatment the PRC is giving Taiwan has changed substantially since Lien and Soong made their historic visits to the Mainland in April and May 2005???
Missiles still in place and pointing this way? Check.
Still barred from international orgs? Check.
One China policy still unbendable? Check.
Military spending still climbing? Check.
What else matters?
Not really. In what way? What I HAVE seen is various analysts from places like the Brookings Institution and the Heritage Foundation pointing out that talking to Taiwan’s opposition while ignoring the elected government achieves nothing and that Washington 'aint buying it for one second.
You mention US ideals and commitments – so what about the US commitment to democracy [Pres Bush’s speech sometime this year]? Isn’t Taiwan a democracy? Why shouldn’t the US support the aspirations of the Taiwanese people to be independent from China [assuming the majority of Taiwanese desire independence]?
Bodo
You mention US ideals and commitments – so what about the US commitment to democracy [Pres Bush’s speech sometime this year]? Isn’t Taiwan a democracy? Why shouldn’t the US support the aspirations of the Taiwanese people to be independent from China [assuming the majority of Taiwanese desire independence]?
Bodo[/quote]
Let me finish that thought . . . . er . . . . I’m not sure that this has anything to do with US ideals or commitments. As soon as it is no longer in US interests to oppose PRC’s plans for reunification by whatever means, then the reunifications will take place.
Bodo