Why doesn't Taiwan use African or Central American laborers?

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“AAF”]
A lot depends on your definition of “African”. If “African” means “a person whose family has lived in Africa for several generations”, then there are many Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means “a person who has African DNA”, then there are quite a lot of Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means “a person whose culture was developed in Africa”, then there are thousands of Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means all of the above, then there are still quite a number of Africans here.[/quote]

That’s a little overboard. I think bismark means someone who is black and is African by birth.[/quote]

Why is it overboard? How do you define that properly? I think I know what you mean. If you look Black, you are African. If you look White, you cannot be African.

Which, my dear AAF, is why I gave a specific definition. As it seems this thread has to do with the African continent in general and countries in Africa which Taiwan has diplomatic relations with specifically. Also, the thread’s concerns seem to be more specific towards unskilled and semi-skilled labor - the type of work in which Thai’s and Philipino’s are utilised for.
Yes, I have one black South African male friends here (I give this definition so as to avoid any confusion that he is not merely another “whitey” in Taiwan) and one coloured female South African (for those who don’t know, this is the current - and past - South African governments classification for people of mixed race, usually black and white but also Malay). However, and this is a BIG however, they have no family to support back home and are both educated professional teachers and therefore do not fall within the parameters within the question, “Why does Taiwan not use laborers from Africa and Latin America?”
Also, having one black male South African teacher in Taiwan is hardly a revolution since 1994. Nurses are another matter. They are neither laborers nor uneducated. The type of money they earn in the Middle East would attract anyone from any background anywhere in the world. The example of nurses in the Middle East is irrelevant as yes, I know there are non-white South African professionals (such as nurses and doctors etc) who have found employment as far afield as New Zealand or the UK. And even there they usually (like their white counterparts) migrate on a semi-permanent basis with their families.

Further example within South Africa. Within the Defence Force one is usually expected to go where you are needed. As far as short deployments of up to six months to Rwanda, Burundi, DRC and Lesotho are concerned - no problem. But where a person is permanently based is a problem. White, coloured and Indian personnel always go where they are needed (and I’m speaking from first hand personal experience), but the black soldiers refuse to be stationed away or far away from their hometowns. Specifically in the Navy there was a shortage of personnel within the fleet to go to sea and operate ships and submarines. Reason being that most black Navy personnel all wanted to be stationed in Durban (if they were Zulu) and Pretoria. This would mean they would all want to be intelligence, personnel, logistics or anything but combat personnel because that would mean being stationed in Simon’s Town 1 600km from their families and regular deployments away from home.

My point being that maybe there exist several other reasons why there aren’t a significant amount of African people employed (not as teachers and engineers, but as laborers, which is the peeve of the thread) in Taiwan other than the ignorant assumption that Taiwanese must hate black people, somehow feel threatened by large “dangerous” black male laborers and any other ignorant racist reason that can be sucked out of someone’s thumb or pulled out their arse instead of looking for another (more probable) reason.

As to who are Africans? Yes, there I agree with you. You and I are Africans. Halle Berry and Wesley Snipes are Americans. Ethnically, perhaps they are African and we aren’t but ethnicity is a different kettle of fish. Ethnically only “Native Americans” are Americans.

It pains me to say it but this is probably the reason.[/quote]

Just another view that perhaps it may not be a racial thing, as perhaps that may not be the case.

A. Consider the prices of air tickets. Someone has to pay for it, be that the company doing the hiring (probably) or the employee. Flights from South East Asia are cheap as to be laughable. A ticket from Johannesburg in South Africa is more expensive than a ticket to New York.

B. All foreign laborers need to be tested for AIDS. Taiwan’s perogative. The fact is AIDS cases in African countries vary anywhere from 25% to 33%. These are government figures and the actual incidence is probably a lot higher.

C. South East Asia has unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled laborers to spare. African countries don’t. What they have they need and want to keep at home. Also, although migrant labor is an integral part of African culture in the last two hundred years, this usually means living in Mozambique and Zimbabwe (or as far afield as Nigeria) and working in South Africa. I’m willing to wager these laborers would much rather travel to South Africa and work there than half way around the world to Taiwan.

D. Even a country like South Africa (being the industrial powerhouse of Africa) is suffering fro a brain drain. That is skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled laborers leaving the country to seek employment elsewhere. And don’t even think this is a white exodus only. Many black people (most notably nurses, doctors, engineers, skilled and semiskilled laborers in several vital fields, accountants and the like) leave for the UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Canada and the US. There are daily recruitment ads in local newspapers pilfering these people. If SA is having a hard time losing these people other African nations will be even harder hit by this and could less afford it. Currently SA is trying very hard to get people to come back and are even recruiting foreigners to try and solve the skills shortage.

So from an African perspective, we aren’t shouting “Racism!!”. We’re just trying to hang on to our skilled people as best we can.[/quote]

Yes, it’s airfares, but also Filipina women have English skill and accents that are better understood to the children and families for whom they care.

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“AAF”]
A lot depends on your definition of “African”. If “African” means “a person whose family has lived in Africa for several generations”, then there are many Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means “a person who has African DNA”, then there are quite a lot of Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means “a person whose culture was developed in Africa”, then there are thousands of Africans in Taiwan. If “African” means all of the above, then there are still quite a number of Africans here.[/quote]

That’s a little overboard. I think bismark means someone who is black and is African by birth.[/quote]

Namahottie, you are quite right in what I meant. However, I just gave that definition in my post so as to have a parameter for this particualr thread so that everyone would know exactly who within Africa I was talking about.

Another excellent point, because a great deal of African countries are French speaking, and other than the elite (who may have had an English education) the vast majority in Francophone African countries only speak French and a regional dialect.

So it makes sense about the distance problem at least. That could be a very good reason why they don’t bring Africans over from the poor African countries they have/recently had full diplomatic relations with.
So what about scholarships or exchange students? You’d think with your diplomatic allies at least there would be some relatively large numbers of such students.
I did a quick google search of African scholarships in Taiwan and found only stuff like this :

China will ‘‘reduce and exempt African countries’ debt worth 10 billion yuan ($1.21 billion) in the coming two years’’ and grant more scholarships to African students, Xinhua News Agency reported Wednesday.

China’s vice minister of education, Wei Yu, told the forum the increased scholarships for African students will be targeted at encouraging postgraduate research.
China already has in place an extensive educational exchange program that gives foreign students free tuition at Chinese universities and a small stipend.
findarticles.com/p/articles/ … i_66471912

When I first set foot on this island in the early nineties, I remember there were a lot of Africans in the dark and smelly hostel I spend the first few days. They were driving around in taxis looking for work in factories. Don’t think they were legally here, but the law enforcement was probably much more relaxed back then.

So, did anyone in Taiwan or Chad even know they had diplomatic relations until the past few days?? Anyone here ever meet a Chadian in Taiwan?
Now,… if they had been more integrated with business, exchange programs, scholarships etc… ; would it have been so easy for China to swoop in and buy them out just like that?

[quote=“Hongda”]
Now,… if they had been more integrated with business, exchange programs, scholarships etc… ; would it have been so easy for China to swoop in and buy them out just like that?[/quote]

I found an article this morning that answers part of my question.
Apparently they are waking up a little too late…

Your reasons sound very clever, but are actually a load of bollocks, as even a cursory glance at European immigration statistics will show. And your picture of the African man unable and unwilling to leave the family to go abroad for work is patronising and itself bordering on the racist. Sorry. Your turn to look up your arse.

Edited. Due to :fume: See next post.

Really? :unamused: And your evidence to the contrary is…?

Pardon me, but I thought we were discussing the absence of African labourers in Taiwan. That same “cursory” glance :unamused: at European immigration statistics would also prove that just as many (if not more) folks from Turkey, and Asia are also clamouring to enter the supposed greener pastures of Europe. And then we haven’t even touched on the hordes of people that want and wish and hope for entrance into North America.
And where this further entices bafflement from your post is that migrant labourers (or any other skils sector from Africa or anywhere else) are trying to gain entry into Europe or North America for a better life. That is settlement. Permanently. With their families. If not immediately, eventually.
That is an entirely different discussion as to the one this thread was about. But perhaps in your haste to sling ignorant insults you missed that.

:saywhat: I said, and I quote [quote]South East Asia has unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled laborers to spare. African countries don’t. What they have they need and want to keep at home. Also, although migrant labor is an integral part of African culture in the last two hundred years, this usually means living in Mozambique and Zimbabwe (or as far afield as Nigeria) and working in South Africa. I’m willing to wager these laborers would much rather travel to South Africa and work there than half way around the world to Taiwan.[/quote]
So as you can see, unless you refuse to see, I never implied that in the least…

And as far as this is concerned: [quote=“Bismarck”]Within the Defence Force one is usually expected to go where you are needed. As far as short deployments of up to six months to Rwanda, Burundi, DRC and Lesotho are concerned - no problem. But where a person is permanently based is a problem. White, coloured and Indian personnel always go where they are needed (and I’m speaking from first hand personal experience), but the black soldiers refuse to be stationed away or far away from their hometowns. Specifically in the Navy there was a shortage of personnel within the fleet to go to sea and operate ships and submarines. Reason being that most black Navy personnel all wanted to be stationed in Durban (if they were Zulu) and Pretoria. This would mean they would all want to be intelligence, personnel, logistics or anything but combat personnel because that would mean being stationed in Simon’s Town 1 600km from their families and regular deployments away from home.[/quote]
This is a specific South African military issue, one of which I have six years of first hand experience. It is not an opinion it is a fact. And what you say is bordering on racist is absolutely laughable. The reason behind this behaviour is cultural. The fact that I mention this cultural phenomenon within my own country is an observation. Not a racist statement. Racism is defined as: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. OR. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

For what? Ignorance?

Yeah, whatever… Come over here and say it. I dare you.

Calm down, everyone.

The obvious reason is that the Philippines is only 100 kilos from Taiwan. Africa is, what, 1,000 kilos from Taiwan? This is not hard to figure out. If they moved Madagascar 1,000 miles closer to Taiwan, the Taiwanese would hire them. Geez, this is really, really simple. Will you people calm down? It has nothing to do with racism.

Somebody pass the chips and RCs…I [i]love[/i] watching a discussion where any semblance of reality and common sense gets thrown out the window. :laughing:

Please continue!

Er, did you read my post, Dr. Evil? What I said was pretty sensible. It comes down to the simple facts of geography. At its closest point, Kending is only 100 kilometers from the tip of the Philippines. It takes only 90 minutes from Taipei to Manila, as opposed to over 12 hours by airplane from Johannesburg to Taipei. Really, it is all very, very simple. No need to get into convoluted theories about African family values and everything.

I wasn’t replying directly to your post…I guess I could have made that a little clearer. :slight_smile: But I agree completely with you.

I’ll trade you a moon pie and a NeHi for a bag of pork rinds and a Sundrop. :laughing:

[quote=“mod lang”]Calm down, everyone.

The obvious reason is that the Philippines is only 100 kilos from Taiwan. Africa is, what, 1,000 kilos from Taiwan? This is not hard to figure out. If they moved Madagascar 1,000 miles closer to Taiwan, the Taiwanese would hire them. Geez, this is really, really simple. Will you people calm down? It has nothing to do with racism.[/quote]

Mod Lang, as usual you were able to put my verbose posts into a nice concise little bundle. :bravo: Actually, I was just only trying to expand and give a different viewpoint apart from the well loved racist rant. Now coming from a country where I’m a minority most of my friends are not from my racial group. And my mates don’t really like being away from their families for too long. In this they are very much like the Taiwanese. I didn’t feel this was patronising or racist to mention.

For example, being in Taiwan you get the dual question - How long have you been in Taiwan AND don’t you miss your family? Back home before I came here the question posed was - Won’t you miss your family?

I don’t mind if someone disagrees with me. This is supposed to be a discussion. So by all means, disagree. But to sling cheap insults and to get personal is a little much.

When I first arrived in Taiwan in 1989, on a few occasions I saw pick-up trucks full of black guys, who looked as if they were laborers on their way to a construction site (judging by the way they were dressed). Within a year I did not see any more laborers who looked as if they were from Africa. I think there was a government crack-down, and more and more SE asian workers started to come.

A good buddy of mine, a Xhosa girl I knew in Cape Town, had a boyfriend who went to sea with a Taiwanese fishing trawler. After working non-stop for them all over the firggin world, for about 10 months, they forced him off the boat in SE Asia some place without a dollar of pay - claiming that he had stolen something. He was forced to plead with the South African embassy for assistance with airfare home.

Back in the day when Taipei was still a City of Sin, you would see a fair number of South American women who had come to Taiwan to work in the sex industry or as hostesses or strippers. Sometimes they would rock up at places like Buffalo Town. I speak Spanish, and found that a lot of these girls were from Argentina, and told me that they were out on a circut that included Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong.

I still don’t think it’s only a geographical problem.
We are talking about diplomatic allies here–countries Taiwan is trying(wanting, needing, desperate for) to keep on their short list of allies to hold any small amount of power in U.N./W.H.O votes etc…
Taiwan could easily foot the airline costs by chartering planes. Doesn’t the government own China Airlines??

They just lost Chad last week and if you read my article on page 3, NOW they want to bring in laborers from the 6 South Pacific nations they still hold diplomatic relations with, to prevent China from cutting them out also…
So why didn’t they do it before?! Why just now?!
Anyone could see that more integrated relations would have helped prevent this problem with China happening before.
I’m not just talking about laborers ,but, exchange students, scholarship students, visa perferences to those citizens of allied countries etc… very little or none of that was or is happening.

Could it be those countries were offered but refused ?.. knowing that it was only a matter of time before China came along with a bigger money offer and by already having Taiwan as an ally they could ask alot more from China for making the switch?
It sure would make the switch much easier if there were basically no relations other than an office with a few staff in each country.