Why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights?

Legal Human Rights
101

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“kevinsang01212”]
Ok it is a fact there is an issue there in China. Of course there is. It is every where.
doesn’t mean it is not propaganda. It is used by the west to attack China and most people in US forget about themselves so they focus the problems abroad.

YOU have no rights when u r at the bottom of that pyramid. Doesn’t matter if u are in US or China[/quote]

You are still saying “i caught you running red lights, so what you said about me driving drunk is propaganda”. Is that not in itself a fallacy?

Saying US is as bad as China in terms of human rights is one thing. But saying both sides are the same, so criticizing human rights in China is a propaganda, it just seems odd to me. So if the “west” criticizing China’s human rights situation is propaganda, then in your mind who and which countries can criticize China on this issue?

I don’t agree with the assessment that the US is as bad as China in terms of human rights because like headhonchoII said, even though there have been laws passed recently that I feel is against the principles of human rights, but some basic rights are still protected. The foundation of the US government is that these rights ought to be protected, so no one will just shrug their shoulders and say “what can you do, the government can do what ever they want”. Having lived through part of the martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan, I just don’t feel your equivocations comes close to the how things really are.

One major difference, if you are in the US, and you feel this way about the government, you can talk about it, even do something about it, either preach it to the public or run for office . Of course the unfortunate Citizen United ruling probably is making that even harder… but at least when you gather enough public opinions on your side, issues will be looked and voted on. None of these things can be done in China (or Taiwan 25 years ago) without being taken to the police office.[/quote]

Well, whenever I saw an excess of human rights issues in China compared to the human rights issues in US where as The US is very prone on human rights violations. Something always don’t seem right.

So here is my argument:

  1. There is an excess of human right issues in main stream media about China/Asia in TW and the West compared to human rights issues about US BUT I could find equal amount of abusive occurrences about US. I could say the same thing on this forum I presume. So whats going on here??? It is trying to portray Governments in the West are better at Human rights than China / other Asian countries. By put more info out there about human rights abusive in China / Asian than human rights abuse in US, it is telling u that US is better at Human rights. Is it not a propaganda if US also abuse human right in a lot of areas?? And we don’t talk about it that much? Isn’t this a propaganda? it is a White men supremecy propaganda.

U put that pic as a human rights issue. OK
But I could find the same pics in US like that and do we talk about it that much? Does TW main stream media report that or something like that and label that as human rights issues as often??? and put up posters???

I think ur example is not as well suited as the other guy calling me a wanker.
Calling another person a wanker or some names is a process of demeaning another personal. Pretty low… only used in Kindergartens but it is for another time
What is the purpose of demeaning another person?? It is trying to make this person a lower status in a group/ social group
By calling me a wanker over and over. After a period of time. People would say Kevin is a wanker and we are not and we are all better than him and lets not listen what he has to say because he has a lower status by now. This is what 王道 is about. I don’t know the name in English but is basically a game of how to higher ur status and lower another’s in a social group.
But in reality that guy (I couldnt bother to see the handle) is doing the same thing and everybody know it. Facts are there. Unless he couldnt get it up :ponder:

  1. Comparing they are the same. They are the same in nature. They are the same in what they do.
    Local establishments that try to maximise their positions.
    Expanding their influences and gather resources so
    They can SELF PERPETUATE.
    Self Perpetuating Actions indeed. This this why they do in #1. Part of what they do.
    what ever rights / well being we have right now.
    It is only there when the local establishment can afford to do while maintaining its position as well as it can
    Please listen to: criticalthinkeracademy.com/2 … f-defense/ around 2:50
    It is about self interest

And when a local estalishment wishes to violate ur rights so they can self perpetuate, they will do it!!! u bet they will
Thats whats happening in US. Their rights are getting taken away everyday and there is nothing they can do about it.
When there are less and less for US to exploit, this situation will get more severe.

102

Exactly what I am saying in #2. martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan back then because the local establishment have to do at that time for it to self-perpetuate.
We have more freedom now compared to back then because they can afford to give us.

Please read that law… basic rights?

Thats why they have that law I linked.
And thats what the Nazi did. take the rights aways little by little. day by day

What u know… not many people talk about it because they don’t talk about it in mainstream media
And who controls the main stream media??

103

I don’t even know WTF CCP is

104

All I see is “there’s an equal amount of human rights abuse in the US as in China”, and frankly, I can careless which country has more human rights abuse, if I hear one, I’d think it needs to be fixed, anywhere in the world.

If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US, by all means post them, so people who weren’t informed can do something about it. And that’s what democracy is about.

And CCP is the Chinese Communist Party.

105

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“kevinsang01212”]

Well, whenever I saw an excess of human rights issues in China compared to the human rights issues in US where as The US is very prone on human rights violations. Something always don’t seem right.
[/quote]

All I see is “there’s an equal amount of human rights abuse in the US as in China”, and frankly, I can careless which country has more human rights abuse, if I hear one, I’d think it needs to be fixed, anywhere in the world.

If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US, by all means post them, so people who weren’t informed can do something about it. And that’s what democracy is about.

And CCP is the Chinese Communist Party.[/quote]

I agree with u 100%
but is it an issue of human rights or something else?

On the news, there was this small black girl who get tasered by cop. Really??? WTF a girl??? WTF???WTF
under aged girl. U won’t see it as that much of human right issue in mainstream media.

“If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US” again it doesn’t have to be exactly that to be human rights violation

If you don’t know about they do in in the POW camp in outside of US then #1 of what I am saying is definitely working. and u haven’t seen vids???
And there are countless of abuses videos and pics for inside and outside US.
If u are too lazy to find it yourself then I won’t. Just go YOUTUBE

106

youtube.com/watch?v=PiS-k1IFWl0

And please understand the situation before u have some witty reply

there are just so many that shit on the Internet

107

[quote=“kevinsang01212”]

On the news, there was this small black girl who get tasered by cop. Really??? WTF a girl??? WTF???WTF
under aged girl. U won’t see it as that much of human right issue in mainstream media.

“If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US” again it doesn’t have to be exactly that to be human rights violation

If you don’t know about they do in in the POW camp in outside of US then #1 of what I am saying is definitely working. and u haven’t seen vids???
And there are countless of abuses videos and pics for inside and outside US.
If u are too lazy to find it yourself then I won’t. Just go YOUTUBE[/quote]

No one is saying that China is the only place that has human rights issues, but you know what is different between the US and China? You get to see that black girl getting tasered news in the US. Same goes for the inappropriate force taken on the shopper video. I hope police exerting excessive force on shopper is not the same thing as institutional abuse of human rights to you. I find it hard to believe that the US government agrees with these cops’ action, ordered them to do so, or trained these cops to do just that. I think it says more about the poor funding and training of policemen, and those who used excessive force will have to goto court to face consequences. But you won’t see news like this about China in China, not even on the internet. Do you see the difference?

The US isn’t perfect, and frankly I don’t believe any society will ever be perfect, because it’s made of imperfect people like us. But with democracy and free speech, people like us see these news and forms public opinion that will makes sure things like that won’t go under the table, there will be a trial and even if the police got off because of some technicality, there will be people working to see that things like this won’t happen again.

The photos of those girls athletes won’t show up on Chinese news, and officials who respond to to questions will say the country paid to get the medals, and if that’s what it takes to get them then that’s the correct thing to do. That is an institution that offers no avenue for reflection, self-examination, and therefore human right abuses are ignored and average citizens don’t even dare to mention it, like how my elders beat their children so they won’t speak of 228 massacre, because they are afraid the kids will go blabber about it in public.

I mean if you don’t agree with that, then I think we’ve all said our views and there’s no need to continue. I don’t think human rights is a competition between countries, but I see the condition much worse in China, because there is no way of changing it by Chinese citizens, since they live in an authoritarian, totalitarian regime. And you are saying people in the US are sheep and can’t see the human right abuses right in front of them because of mainstream media, well at least you are not, and you get to talk about how people like me are blind to the truth. Does that about sums it up?

108

Well done for laying it out to Kevin. Not much more to be said really, if he doesn’t get it at this stage he should go to China and support free speech, religion, rule of law and multiple party voting, he can learn the hard way.

Kevins views are very common among Chinese and taiwanese who had an idealistic viewpoint on the US and then saw how messy and flawed real democracies are in reality when they study or work there. Then they question everything and make false equivocations with other countries.

But the thing is, democracies are the best we have to work with because they are all based off the flawed unit of the human individual.

109

I stopped doing that long ago, I’m sick and tired of cleaning my keyboard and screen.

110

A system capable of change and without absolutes except for basic rights as the only kind of society that will keep improving itself.

111

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Well done for laying it out to Kevin. Not much more to be said really, if he doesn’t get it at this stage he should go to China and support free speech, religion, rule of law and multiple party voting, he can learn the hard way.

Kevins views are very common among Chinese and taiwanese who had an idealistic viewpoint on the US and then saw how messy and flawed real democracies are in reality when they study or work there. Then they question everything and make false equivocations with other countries.

But the thing is, democracies are the best we have to work with because they are all based off the flawed unit of the human individual.[/quote]

I’m Chinese and I’ve been living in both east and west, and I have no compunction when I say the US constitution is the best the world has ever seen. there are of course abuses and problems in the US, but that doesn’t mean the US Constitution is to be tossed out or is the cause of same (baby with the bathwater and all that). It’s certainly better than the PRC constitution which doesn’t actually say anything definitive or can be used to shield one’s rights from government (it’s more of a set of idealistic “statements” and “wishes”)

I think the problem with many Chinese (including my parents, just to show you I’m not biased) is that basically they’re brainwashed; I attribute this to the strong cultural heritage when it’s good to be deferential and not question authority. where the line “the nail that sticks out gets hammered” says it all about society’s attitude to individualism, where the fear of “disorder” stretching all the way back before the Shang is such a FEAR, whether real or more likely, just apparent, that most Chinese readily give up their rights in return for safety, peace, to a father-figure government, that instead of being suspicious of Big Brother, it’s Big Daddy can protect us.
The other side of that coin is a persistent cynicism and extreme pragmaticism leading to a sad fatalism that says: we can’t fight the system, let’s just game it as best as we can (cuz our neighbour will do the same if we don’t). While I don’t entirely condemn this approach as it’s just a way of surviving, it can be debilitating to a society over the long-term (and my theory is that this is why older civilisations like what we see in the ME and China stagnate in the long term)

I think the other major key point, perhaps to borrow from Milton Friedman, is that it’s best to build a simple system with few laws and less intervention rather than rely on and hope for a “good king”. I think this is antithetical to Asian thinking and culture, because there haven’t been a plurality of systems to understand that point (compounded with the legacy of Legalism and Confucianism) (other than the imperial good king system). BTW, this same problem has affected European civilisation for a long time via the curse of the Pharoanic system (which influenced Macedonia, Rome, and in turn, the later nations of Europe).

The final point is that your comment on Kevin reminds me of how ABCs come to Asia and think how great it is living in Shanghai or Beijing, because they are an expat with a foreign passport. They aren’t subject to detentions, black police, one-child policy, and all the rest in the same way a local is. They can always leave, so of course it’s easy for them not to notice the dark stuff, because they have no need to be afraid (as long as they can leave). I have relatives on the inside who are fed up with the system, but deal with it as best as they can; they have no illusions about the PRC government, and they are often surprised how wonderful it is outside (though they are not foolish enough to expect perfection). They are the type who will appreciate democracy the most like most new immigrants who flee from despotism and tyranny - which is probably why the 1st generation immigrants are so fricking hardworking, because they realize they have got it good in places like the US (even with the discrimination and other problems), it beats what they left.

crap, sorry for the ramble, I will try to edit this later (or not).

112

No human rights in China

theepochtimes.com/n2/opinion … 82278.html