Why don't English teachers learn to code?

I you can’t do, teach.

I hated coding, that’s why I used my BSc in computer science to become an English teacher.

And I was bad at coding. Also, FIFY, no need to thank me, I’m just an English teacher :wink:


Not a Taiwanese company. I can’t give details cause the legality of it is a bit uh … delicate …

We don’t literally pick up kids from the streets and the ‘kids’ actually get a bit more than $100. They are also expected to have some level of working experience. My point is that given how cheap coding-bootcamp graduates are, it makes no sense for anyone to pay more than a few hundred dollars a month.

Any organisation that pays more than this is necessarily paying fore more than just ‘coding-bootcamp’ skills. E.g. problem-solving, communication, understanding of business IS, etc.

Seems easy.


Because all the laid-off coal miners already learned how to code. Market is full.

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Just FYI for those comparing salaries:

(1) Fresh college graduate SWE in Google Taipei: 60-65k USD per year including stock and bonuses

(2) Fresh college graduate SWE in Google Mountain View: 180k USD per year including stock and bonuses. Many get large signon bonuses as well.

You can rent a private room + private bathroom in a house for $1200 USD around Mountain View. These houses will have large (albeit shared) living rooms and parking space. So you’ll earn and save a lot more in the U.S.

Salaries increase faster as well if you’re in the U.S. Local software salaries in Taipei are so pathetic - A fresh college graduate at Google Taipei earns more than a senior software engineer with 10 years of experience at some local companies. So Google here is not incentivized to promote you or increase your salaries at the same rate as in the U.S.

I’ve heard that big companies (Google, Microsoft etc) in Taiwan have very few western workers for this reason, mostly Taiwanese and people from other Asian countries such as India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, and so on…


This seems like a pretty good business model.

Even if they only write ten lines of working code each month, they’re giving good value for money, so it sounds like a win-win for all concerned. Although I can’t help wondering what the office looks like over in Bangladesh.



That’s why they start going rogue and learn hacking.

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Do you guys know if cisco networking/ sys admin credentials would work for getting a gold card?

Where did you get that 180K figure? I heard it was more like 100-120K.

I’m not concerned with getting people from the West to fill those positions as much as getting them filled for Taiwan’s economic needs (although Google is drastically increasing amenities in Xinbei to attract talent worldwide). As Morris Chang has recently said, Taiwanese engineers are more dedicated than their American counterparts.

It’s no secret local wages have been stuck for 20 years, but it won’t last like that forever. IT salaries are expected to increase 15% this year.

One of my coworkers has a daughter that started with a B.S. at google at $160k base, not including stock, bonuses, 401k, etc. This was several years ago.

Hacking…Vending machines.

According to @DunderMifflin starting salary is 60K at Google Taipei. That’s enough to get Taiwanese Americans to move back, based on your criteria.

Note that all the numbers in my post were in USD.

$180k USD is the average L3 total compensation per year in Mountain View. L3 is the level assigned to fresh college graduates with no work experience. This includes base salary, stocks and bonuses. The website with the deets is here - Select Google and L3. In fact it looks like it’s up to $190k now.

For Google Taipei, my numbers are based on anecdotal evidence of 5 friends who joined in the last two years. Highest I’ve heard is $65k USD total compensation, and lowest was $60k USD. Numbers on PTT are also in this range…

These numbers, coupled with the fact that your salary grows much slower in Taiwan, means that there is no way Google Taiwan is going to attract a lot of Western foreigners.

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You need to go re-examine that conversation.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I agree attracting Western foreigners is quixotic, but there’s no need. For one, the US is always short on tech grads too, with so many smart people going into finance, marketing, etc.

Taiwan needs to focus on getting Taiwanese Americans, Chinese Malaysians who studied in Taiwan, and all the talent from South Asia.

Another thing I’d like to mention is the common trend of the best Taiwanese (and S.E Asian) folks using Google Taiwan as a stepping stone to transfer to Google in the US, and then eventually move to other companies. So far, every young, unmarried Taiwanese Googler I’ve talked to has said that they would move to the U.S or U.K Google office in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity.

It’s trivial to buy a very nice house (full down payment) and retire in the Bay Area if you work in FAANG in Silicon Valley for ~15 years. I know too many folks who did this and virtually retired in their mid 30s.

Impossible to even think about doing this in Taiwan though, even if you work at Google.

Seems like a pro move as a software engineer is to spend your 20s and early 30s in U.S, and then move to Google Taiwan in mid 30s when you have enough to retire and do whatever you want basically…A.K.A what many tech gold card folks have done XD


If anybody will learn something, start to learn “rust” :heart_eyes:

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Yeah, I recall reading the Economic Report of the President from ~2007 that salaries have to be 3x more abroad for someone to leave all their family and friends. Based on your figures, that’s right on the margin for someone to go abroad.

That sounds like a sweet setup.