Why gangsta rap doesn't qualify as "art" IMO

Pretty much EVERY form of “new” music has been vilified by old farts and the ignorant, ever since the rennaissance and probably long before that, too, including the genre YOU now play, ran.
I DID like your “I’m no anti-semite, but it’s the fault of those fucking Jews I tell ya.” :laughing:

Sandman wrote [quote]I DID like your “I’m no anti-semite, but it’s the fault of those fucking Jews I tell ya.”[/quote]

The Jews use the the Blacks as muscle, didn’t you know?

my debunking

[quote]Words of Love

Hold me close and tell me how you feel
Tell me love is real
Words of love you whisper soft and true
Darling I love you
Let me hear you say
the words I long to gear
Darling when you’re near
Words of love you whisper soft and true
Darling I love you [/quote]

here’s a song,by what’s often hailed as the best thing since sliced bread in the music industry,all this has to be remembered by the 4 members.

here’s one of eminem’s song

[quote]
“Mockingbird”

Yeah
I know sometimes things may not always make sense to you right now
But hey, what daddy always tell you?
Straighten up little soldier
Stiffen up that upper lip
What you crying about?
You got me

Hailie I know you miss your mom and I know you miss your dad
Well I’m gone but I’m trying to give you the life that I never had
I can see you’re sad, even when you smile, even when you laugh
I can see it in your eyes, deep inside you want to cry
Cause you’re scared, I ain’t there?
Daddy’s with you in your prayers
No more crying, wipe them tears
Daddy’s here, no more nightmares
We gon’ pull together through it, we gon’ do it
Laney uncles crazy, ain’t he?
Yeah but he loves you girl and you better know it
We’re all we got in this world
When it spins, when it swirls
When it whirls, when it twirls
Two little beautiful girls
Lookin’ puzzled, in a daze
I know it’s confusing you
Daddy’s always on the move, mamma’s always on the news
I try to keep you sheltered from it but somehow it seems
The harder that I try to do that, the more it backfires on me
All the things growing up his daddy that he had to see
Daddy don’t want you to see but you see just as much as he did
We did not plan it to be this way, your mother and me
But things have gotten so bad between us
I don’t see us ever being together ever again
Like we used to be when we was teenagers
But then of course everything always happens for a reason
I guess it was never meant to be
But it’s just something we have no control over and that’s what destiny is
But no more worries, rest your head and go to sleep
Maybe one day we’ll wake up and this will all just be a dream

[Chorus]
Now hush little baby, don’t you cry
Everything’s gonna be alright
Stiffen that upper lip up little lady, I told ya
Daddy’s here to hold ya through the night
I know mommy’s not here right now and we don’t know why
We feel how we feel inside
It may seem a little crazy, pretty baby
But I promise momma’s gon’ be alright

It’s funny
I remember back one year when daddy had no money
Mommy wrapped the Christmas presents up
And stuck ‘em under the tree and said some of ‘em were from me
Cause daddy couldn’t buy ‘em
I’ll never forget that Christmas I sat up the whole night crying
Cause daddy felt like a bum, see daddy had a job
But his job was to keep the food on the table for you and mom
And at the time every house that we lived in
Either kept getting broken into and robbed
Or shot up on the block and your mom was saving money for you in a jar
Tryna start a piggy bank for you so you could go to college
Almost had a thousand dollars till someone broke in and stole it
And I know it hurt so bad it broke your momma’s heart
And it seemed like everything was just startin’ to fall apart
Mom and dad was arguin’ a lot so momma moved back
On the Chalmers in the flat one bedroom apartment
And dad moved back to the other side of 8 Mile on Novara
And that’s when daddy went to California with his CD and met Dr. Dre
And flew you and momma out to see me
But daddy had to work, you and momma had to leave me
Then you started seeing daddy on the T.V. and momma didn’t like it
And you and Laney were to young to understand it
Papa was a rollin’ stone, momma developed a habit
And it all happened too fast for either one of us to grab it
I’m just sorry you were there and had to witness it first hand
Cause all I ever wanted to do was just make you proud
Now I’m sitting in this empty house, just reminiscing
Lookin’ at your baby pictures, it just trips me out
To see how much you both have grown, it’s almost like you’re sisters now
Wow, guess you pretty much are and daddy’s still here
Laney I’m talkin’ to you too, daddy’s still here
I like the sound of that, yeah
It’s got a ring to it don’t it?
Shh, momma’s only gone for the moment

[Chorus]

And if you ask me too
Daddy’s gonna buy you a mockingbird
I’mma give you the world
I’mma buy a diamond ring for you
I’mma sing for you
I’ll do anything for you to see you smile
And if that mockingbird don’t sing and that ring don’t shine
I’mma break that birdies neck
I’ll go back to the jeweler who sold it to ya
And make him eat every carat don’t fuck with dad (haha)[/quote]

rap doesn’t forgive,if you forget ur next line,you can’t go on a 5 minutes crazy riffing on the guitar or go “da doum doum da da dee da”…in that respect,these guys impress me a lot.

and then there is the messages carried,such as this one:

[quote]
“Mosh”

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands
One nation under God
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all…
It feels so good to be back…

I scrutinize every word, memorize every line
I spit it once, refuel, re-energize and rewind
I give sight to the blind, my insight through the mind
I exercise my right to express when I feel it’s time
It’s just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
I say to fight, you take it as I’mma whip someone’s ass
If you don’t understand, don’t even bother to ask
A father who has grown up with a fatherless past
Who has blown up now to rap phenomenon that has
Or at least shows no difficulty multi-task
And in juggling both perhaps mastered his craft
Slash entrepreneur who has helped launch a few more rap acts
Who’s had a few obstacles thrown his way through the last half
Of his career typical manure moving past that
Mr. kisses ass crack, he’s a class act
Rubber band man, yea he just snaps back

[Chorus:]
Come along follow me as I lead through the darkness
As I provide just enough spark that we need to proceed
Carry on, give me hope, give me strength
Come with me and I won’t steer you wrong
Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
To the light at the end of the tunnel
We gonna fight, we gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march
Through the swamp, we gonna mosh through the marsh
Take us right through the doors (c’mon)

All the people up top on the side and the middle
Come together lets all bomb and swamp just a little
Just let it gradually build from the front to the back
All you can see is a sea of people some white and some black
Don’t matter what color, all that matters we gathered together
To celebrate for the same cause don’t matter the weather
If it rains let it rain, yea the wetter the better
They ain’t gonna stop us they can’t, we stronger now more than ever
They tell us no we say yea, they tell us stop we say go
Rebel with a rebel yell, raise hell we gonna let em know
Stomp, push, shove, mush, Fuck Bush, until they bring our troops home (c’mon)

[Chorus]

Imagine it pouring, it’s raining down on us
Mosh pits outside the oval office
Someone’s tryina tell us something,
Maybe this is God just sayin’ we’re responsible
For this monster, this coward,
That we have empowered
This is Bin Laden, look at his head noddin’
How could we allow something like this without pumping our fists

Now this is our final hour
Let me be the voice in your strength and your choice
Let me simplify the rhyme just to amplify the noise
Try to amplify the times it, and multiply by six…
Teen million people, Are equal at this high pitch
Maybe we can reach alqueda through my speech
Let the president answer a higher anarchy
Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war
Let him impress daddy that way
No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil
No more psychological warfare, to trick us to thinking that we ain’t loyal
If we don’t serve our own country, we’re patronizing a hero
Look in his eyes its all lies
The stars and stripes, they’ve been swiped, washed out and wiped
And replaced with his own face, Mosh now or die
If I get sniped tonight you know why,
Cause I told you to fight.

[Chorus]

And as we proceed,
To Mosh through this desert storm,
In these closing statements, if they should argue
Let us beg to differ
As we set aside our differences
And assemble our own army
To disarm this Weapon of Mass Destruction
That we call our President, for the present
And Mosh for the future of our next generation
To speak and be heard
Mr. President, Mr. Senator

Do you guy’s hear us…hear us…[laughing] (Hailie)[/quote]

that’s poetry, not music.

rap IS different. no other kind of music has created the gun toting heathens we have today. rap has no class whatsoever. it was born in the same vacant lot where the rapper’s 13 year old mother gave birth to him, the same field where Willie the crackhead took a shit.

i care not to hear eminem’s woes. that white trash heathen could have never been famous and i’d think the world was just fine. i don’t give a care about the ghetto. i really don’t. the only people worth helping are the ones who want out. those people just take a bus to the library across town. the others can’t think that far and get involved with gangs.

funny how they can recite that crap but they can’t recite their school lessons.

bill cosby and a LOT of prominent black americans think rap is crap too.

rap is trash culture and i fail to see why it should be lifted to national status. put some gospel lyrics on it or sing about something cool instead of MFer this and that, my momma raped me, ect. if yo mamma raped you, she should be in jail. don’t sing about it. sing about how you’ve forgiven her if you’re gonna sing something.

too much crap on the radio.

I am a white trash heathen who loves Eminem and has a masters’ degree. I’m not going to ‘defend’ rap because it’s not under siege in any way.

I don’t see a whiny victim. I see a vulnerable man who stood up and made a life for himself and his and someone else’s kid. He didn’t ask for help and didn’t get it. He is despised by many because he raps about taboo subjects such as hating his mother.

If I had teenagers, I’d rather they grew up listening to stuff like ‘Lose Yourself’ which has pride and spirit,

'Too much for me to wanna
Stay in one spot, another day of monotony
Has gotten me to the point, I’m like a snail
I’ve got to formulate a plot fore I end up in jail or shot
Success is my only mothafuckin option, failure’s not
Mom, I love you, but this trailer’s got to go
I cannot grow old in Salem’s lot
So here I go is my shot.
Feet fail me not cuz maybe the only opportunity that I got

You can do anything you set your mind to, man’

Than the toxic suicide crap I grew up listening to;

'I grasp at life’s fading light
I need you tonight
I need to be heard
Your actions speak louder than words
Ignored by you all
I stumble and fall
I suddenly knew
My life meant nothing at all

In shreds I stare down at the street
Yearning for sleep
That blissful escape
But when it comes it’s always too late
The whore in my bed
The noise in my head
A hole in my pride
It’s coming and there’s nowhere to hide

It seems to me
To be self-contradictory
It seems to me
To count your blessings while they’re there’

'A change of scene, a change of style.
A change of hope with no regrets,
A chance to watch, admire the distance,
Still occupied, though you forget.
Different colours, different shades,
Overreached, mistakes were made.
I took the blame.
Directionless, so plain to see,
A loaded gun wont set you free.
So you say.

We’ll share a drink and step outside,
An angry voice and one who cried,
I gave you everything and more,
The strain’s too much, can’t take much more.
I’ve walked on water, run through fire,
Can’t seem to feel it anymore.
It was me, waiting for me,
Hoping for something more,
Me, seeing me this time, hoping for something else.
Now that love’s gone wrong’

Rap didn’t create gun toting heathens. If you can’t see that then theres no point in arguing.

People create entertainment, entertainment doesn’t create people.

If music is what causes these problems then we better ban whatever the Nazis listened to, or the gangsters of the prohibition period. Better not play any bagpipes or the celtic folks will be on a rampage!

old school hip hop and rap are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. hip hop was born in multicultural neighborhoods. it got HIJACKED by Warner as a strictly black thing. hip hop was a culture that included break dance, rap, all kinds of funky cool stuff. it was multi racial. a lot of the break dance moves were put in there by chinese kids showing off a kung fu move they had learned. i saw the news report.

the beats in rap are A-1 okay by me. if people would stop writing crap and put something postive out there, i wouldn’t be here yakking about it.

MTV, gangsta rap, and daytime talkshows are toxic. if (at least the US) can detox from this stuff, life would improve for everyone.

Warner is the main violator. my comments about Jews in hollywood simply mean this:

most execs are Jewish, sorry it’s a fact
most execs have kids and are family guys
most execs, somewhere down the line, answer to a local Rabbi, or at least the Jewish community
rap is many times anti semetic
most execs have gone thru ba-mitzvah, so they KNOW the Torah, and they know right from wrong

they’re not going to listen to the Christian right. so maybe a broad Judeo-Christian coalition with pressure from rabbis can get this toxic crap off the airwaves.

a market for rap? so what? there’s a market for heroin too. you want that shit out in the open?

[quote=“ran the man”]I look at gangsta rap like this:

in comedy, it takes a LOT more talent to tell a good clean joke than a dirty one.likewise, it’s easy to make a song about base things. it’s hard to make a song about higher things. rap doesn’t use the higher senses. it’s gutter music.
it’s rhyme scheme uses the simplest form of rhyme in the English language, a rhyming word at the end of EACH line. it is much harder to write a rhyme per every other line.
there is gospel, soul, blues, jazz ,and ragtime if I need to hear true African American art. my ears won’t miss gutter rap.

finally, what possible talent could it take to run a turntable? DJs are kidding themselves.even scratching is not a refined rhythmic ability.

are we so lost that we now consider DJs musicians? DJs are no more musicians than taking a crap on the sidewalk is a painting.my two cents.[/quote]

You have done lost ya damn mind beaach. You have, have never manipulated a turntable in your life. You can’t even match a beat. Let alone create a set remix, run samples, loops, vocals, and try to keep it coherent and flowing. Sucka ass mutha fucka is that rymin for u yet.

Just cause you think talents take degrees don’t mean you got shit on deez… deez nutz.

You don’t even know… I paint but I have also delved into turntablism, the shit is hard: check this shit out and if you think it doesn’t take talent to do it than you are a fucking retard. Cause you never touched a turntable in ya life. See your ass do this shit or maybe its just too basic for you to understand. Stop knocking djs dude its like watching kelly slater surf and saying oh yeah surfing is some real easy shit. I can do that.

youtube.com/watch?v=s6tmbUTQYCs

I don’t about DJ music, never having consciously heard it. To me, the DJ will forever be the guy with the bad haircut and the 1974 Ford Capri who always makes sure the last two or three records are slow ones if he knows what’s good for him, and who doesn’t play Status Quo more than two or three times a night.

As for not real musicians, well really, one needn’t look any further than drummers. And maybe bass players. “Thumpa thumpa thumpa” and you call that MUSIC?

[quote]I don’t about DJ music, never having consciously heard it. To me, the DJ will forever be the guy with the bad haircut and the 1974 Ford Capri who always makes sure the last two or three records are slow ones if he knows what’s good for him, and who doesn’t play Status Quo more than two or three times a night.

As for not real musicians, well really, one needn’t look any further than drummers. And maybe bass players. “Thumpa thumpa thumpa” and you call that MUSIC?[/quote]

Where I come from the vast majority of musicians are just skinny wankers who can’t play sport and can’t get laid. Sure, they often have a genuine interest in music, but I think getting laid is still a driving force behind it.

[quote=“almas john”][quote]I don’t about DJ music, never having consciously heard it. To me, the DJ will forever be the guy with the bad haircut and the 1974 Ford Capri who always makes sure the last two or three records are slow ones if he knows what’s good for him, and who doesn’t play Status Quo more than two or three times a night.

As for not real musicians, well really, one needn’t look any further than drummers. And maybe bass players. “Thumpa thumpa thumpa” and you call that MUSIC?[/quote]

Where I come from the vast majority of musicians are just skinny wankers who can’t play sport and can’t get laid. Sure, they often have a genuine interest in music, but I think getting laid is still a driving force behind it.[/quote]
I’m not that skinny, unfortunately, but other than that … No, wait, I was a pretty quick winger for a while at school. Still didn’t get laid nearly enough, mainly on account of being a wee bastard. A wee bastard that could play the guitar but a wee bastard nonetheless.

SandUrinater wrote: [quote]mainly on account of being a
wee bastard
.[/quote]

Look, I’m not - and I’m sure others aren’t - interested in your perverted love of public urination. You’re a man, not a bloody hound!

[quote=“almas john”]SandUrinater wrote: [quote]mainly on account of being a
wee bastard
.[/quote]

Look, I’m not - and I’m sure others aren’t - interested in your perverted love of public urination. You’re a man, not a bloody hound![/quote]
And there we have it. Not content with being a self-confessed New Zealand person, he’s now as good as admitting that he’s a closet pisser! Get that wee felly out in the fresh air, man! What’s the matter with you?

[quote=“sandman”]I don’t about DJ music, never having consciously heard it. To me, the DJ will forever be the guy with the bad haircut and the 1974 Ford Capri who always makes sure the last two or three records are slow ones if he knows what’s good for him, and who doesn’t play Status Quo more than two or three times a night.

As for not real musicians, well really, one needn’t look any further than drummers. And maybe bass players. “Thumpa thumpa thumpa” and you call that MUSIC?[/quote]

Dj,s have defined hip hop, pop music, and another bullshit we call music these days. They (at least the early 80’s blocks) have become the producers, engineers, sound production dudes and what not for popular music. Dj’s also began to define the dance music scene in the early eighties. Warehouse music as it used to be; people wanting to get away from the violence that ran the man was pointing towards in his post. Good clean fun. Frankie knuckles was a big playa in this… If you still would like to hear some good ole soul chicago house check out

deephousepage.com/

Dj’s have always been the master of the “beats” that everyone finds themselves grooving to these days. The turntable toook over the guitar in 1983 god knows what will take over now: oh shit they have computers; oh shit thats right a computer, where is the soul.

This is primarily American history since 80 but it runs deep, and any hip hop 90’s gangster rap will find its history in deephousepage.com. Enjoy the site if you are into it and yes it is all dj’s from 79 up to the present. Great fun, good people, good music, maybe its like a forumosa happy hour. (I will be the judge of that soon enough).

Frankie knuckles (legend) site is

fkalways.com/

he is a good guy.

Plus, there’s only one of 'em, so they’re cheaper than hiring a band. Which I’m afraid is the REAL reason they became popular. :wink:

i can match a beat. i can also play the beat myself. i can also write the beat down myself.complete with italian markings. take that to the ghetto!

the two worst inventions were the sampler and midi. i stopped using computers and my playing recovered. the computer for all its usefulness, makes you LAZY.

match a beat? don’t be ridiculous. who can’t match a beat?

[quote=“ran the man”]i can match a beat. i can also play the beat myself. i can also write the beat down myself.complete with italian markings. take that to the ghetto!

the two worst inventions were the sampler and midi. i stopped using computers and my playing recovered. the computer for all its usefulness, makes you LAZY.

match a beat? don’t be ridiculous. who can’t match a beat?[/quote]

Oh wow, all of the things are tools, just like you are a tool. For someone who seems so cultured and talented, you make some pretty bold, generalized, and ignorant statements. Why don’t you just come out and say what you really want, go ahead, you are already driving into race territory so just come out and say it. Oh and by the way there are rap/hip hop groups that play with all live instruments. One example would be The Roots.

If you ever get close to a mixer and a pair of vinyl turntables have someone show you how to drop in a record match it and mix it. Not everyone can do it. Most people make train wrecks.

got nothing to do with race. bill cosby and wynton marsalis are both black. patti austin is black and she said rap has no basis whatsoever.

personally speaking i like some rap. i’m into mix/dub stuff. but the thing has gone too far.

rap was part of mulit cultural hip hop. that i like. i DON’T like gangsta rap. personally speaking, to see them swaggering around, (white, latino, black, i don’t care),trying to intimidate people, i’d rather shoot them than look at them. when i go back to the States, I WILL organize an armed neighborhood watch against gangs.

I think I know what you are getting at, the 3 key midi sampler background shit gets to me too. I think its not so much gangsta rap its cheap pop rap. Gangsta rap has been around for a long time, N.W.A., Dr. Dre, Snoop, but the music has become shittier in quality since rap artists started making their own beats on computers. Back in the day artists used to rely on their dj’s for the background music. Now dudes think they can make their own shit and most times it sucks.

An MC in general should not be making their own background music they should be EMCeeing. Anyhow there is group in my city that addresses hip hop versus rap, its called trueskool. They teach kids about real hip hop, graffiti, break dancing, the music industry, music history, etc. Trying to teach them that what goes out on the radio isn’t what music should really be about and that music you hear on the radio is not necessarily what people want to hear because record labels buy space for songs just like advertisements so the stations play the music. They try and take out the negative of rap/hip hop and infuse it with the positive. The groups address is

trueskool.org/