Ask for “tang4 qing1cai4”, blanched greens – usually about NT$30. The places that serve fried rice, beef noodles etc. will usually have this on the menu too, and if they don’t, just switch to a new joint.
After you’ve smoked it, switch to a new restaurant too.
Ok hold on now people.
There are two assumptions here that need to be examined.
One is that:
oil/meat = unhealthy
veggies/organic = healthy
I have never understood this. You need some fats in your diet, you need some meat, you need some veggies, you need some carbs, you need some fruits, you need a little of everything. So what if your rice and veggies are fried in oil? No need to freak out over a litle grease. You just got your carbs, veggies AND lipids for the day. Good for you, you just ate a well balanced meal! :bravo:
The second assumption is that Taiwanese food sucks.
Friends and neighbors, get out of the night market and shop around a little. I mean, mala choudoufu, how great is that? Down south they cook it for like 4 HOURS to get it just RIGHT. So hot it makes your nose run in summer! and it cures a stuffy nose in winter. Fantastic!
And then there’s Kongrou fan with bamboo and a big fried goose egg so you can break the yolk into your rice? How is that not heaven? And don’t even get me started on hot pot and sha cha jiang. Sometimes THEY MAKE THE HOT POT WITH A COFFEE BROTH! The taiwanese invented CAFFEINATED SOUP. That is BRILLIANT.
I mean, what do we have in america? Chicken fingers? Shoney’s pancakes? Feckin’ waffle house and Chilli’s clones and bloody McDonalds?
Now I am a proud American but even I have to admit that when it comes to food (and nothing else 
), the Taiwanese have got us whipped backwards and forwards, along every axis X, Y and Z and even in a fourth dimension that as yet remains theoretical.
Taiwanese food ROCKS.
[quote=“beautifulspam”]Ok hold on now people.
There are two assumptions here that need to be examined.
One is that:
oil/meat = unhealthy
veggies/organic = healthy
I have never understood this. You need some fats in your diet, you need some meat, you need some veggies, you need some carbs, you need some fruits, you need a little of everything. So what if your rice and veggies are fried in oil? No need to freak out over a litle grease. You just got your carbs, veggies AND lipids for the day. Good for you, you just ate a well balanced meal! :bravo: [/quote]
Couple of problems here.
First. You’re assuming the victims stomach is ready to accept a good dose of oil. I eat a low fat diet and just get plain sick when I eat an oily meal. I can cope if it is presented again and again for about a week but why bother building up to it at all?
Second. How delicious is oil? I don’t find it a delight to eat and have to keep my calories down or bulge out rapidly.
Muchaman explained to me some time back that the peasant diet is high in oil so the locals could toil in the fields, they have tractors now but keep the same diet.
So, if you can get a very low oil meal then you can pile up more of the enjoyable stuff. Say a meal had 200 calories of oil. That could be a nice desert or 2 or 3 fruit items and bonus points because the meals flavors and textures would not be hidden by the oil.
Need fats in your diet? Avacado is a tasty way to increase them.
Ironman is right about the fats. They are NOT all created equal.
Good fats can also be found in foods such as nuts, avocodos, and olive oil. A small dosage of naturally occuring saturated fat in meat is also ok. But the oil found in the food is here is NOT the kind of fat you want. To be honest, they use the cheapeset oil and it’s also re-used to a dangerouse degree resulting in carcinogens.
Don’t be stupid. SOME fats are good. Not all.
Diverse? Sure. Decent? Ok. Rocks?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh, did I forget to mention, “HA!”?
[quote]
First. You’re assuming the victims stomach is ready to accept a good dose of oil. I eat a low fat diet and just get plain sick when I eat an oily meal. I can cope if it is presented again and again for about a week but why bother building up to it at all?
Second. How delicious is oil? I don’t find it a delight to eat and have to keep my calories down or bulge out rapidly.
Muchaman explained to me some time back that the peasant diet is high in oil so the locals could toil in the fields, they have tractors now but keep the same diet.
So, if you can get a very low oil meal then you can pile up more of the enjoyable stuff. Say a meal had 200 calories of oil. That could be a nice desert or 2 or 3 fruit items and bonus points because the meals flavors and textures would not be hidden by the oil. [/quote]
Of course if you cut the fat out of your diet your stomach won’t be used to digesting fats. But why did you cut the fat in the first place?
Once again, assumptions. Fat is bad. Calories are evil.
Look, it is one of the wonders of industrialization that once-scarce proteins and fats are now abundant. Enjoy them! We humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history. And yet so many people in the “health food” movement seem eager to revert to an anemic, pre-industrial diet of boiled leaves and tree bark. :loco:
Eros wrote:
What have tried that you didn’t like?
I LOVE fat. Eggs, whole milk, cheese, peanuts, olive oil, chocolate, rib-eye steaks…yes! Give me more.
Oh, you mean greasy fried vegetables covered in MSG. No thanks.
You are talking a load of shyte. Its true that we humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history, because of medical breakthroughs. Not because of diet.
The leading cause of death in the West is heart attack primarily caused by poor diet resulting from excessive cholesterol and saturdated fat (often combined with a lack of exercise).
[quote=“beautifulspam”] Of course if you cut the fat out of your diet your stomach won’t be used to digesting fats. But why did you cut the fat in the first place?
Once again, assumptions. Fat is bad. Calories are evil. [/quote]
Because I was a fat bastard. Stress ate my way up 50lb or so.
Mainly modified the carb intake but fat intake was part and parcel of the change.
I came to Taiwan because Dr. Kevorkian is hard to trace.
newyorker.com/fact/content/a … 405fa_fact
sciam.com/askexpert_question … &topicID=3
[/quote]
Ok, you are right about height of course. That was a misquote on my part. Height is definitely related to diet rather than medical breakthroughs. But how do you judge health? I’d say lifespan. Japanese are the longest living, and they really don’t compete on the height scales… so it seems that height says very little about health, even if it does reflect diet. Japanese also tend to have a much lower fat intake. (and heart attack isn’t the most common cause of death over there)
Notice how the articles aren’t discussing what we are discussing, which is fat intake and its affect on health. I bet if you compared (as a ratio) the average americans growth in girth compared to their height, I’d say they are defn. growing wider in comparison to height.
beautifulspam… ur going to get toasted by the very article you posted…it directly contradicts your claims:
newyorker.com/fact/content/a … 405fa_fact
[quote]In a recent British study, one group of schoolchildren was given hamburgers, French fries, and other familiar lunch foods; the other was fed nineteen-forties-style wartime rations such as boiled cabbage and corned beef. Within eight weeks, the children on the rations were both taller and slimmer than the ones on a regular diet.
[/quote]
but thanks for the articles anyway, they were an interesting read.
See, beautifulspam, even after Ironman and myself pointed out, you still fail to acknowledge the difference between good and bad fats.
Of course you would be right if you said people shouldn’t cut out GOOD fats. But good and bad fats are NOT the same.
And that’s where your whole argument falls apart. It’s not even debatable - You’re wrong.
That may very well be. I tend to ignore a lot of this talk about good fats, bad fats, veganism, low carb diets, vegeterianism, herbal supplements…but who knows, maybe theres something to it. So go ahead, Please show me your evidence that there are such things as good and bad fats, that the bad fats are bad objectively rather than because people sometiems eat too much of them, further that “bad fats” have significant negative consequences for our health, that people only need the “good” fats and can cut out “bad” fats entirely with no ill effects, and that most or a significant majority of taiwanese restaurants fry with bad fats rather than good fats. Then i’ll have no choice but to believe you
I’ll still think taiwanese food is fantastic though. Nothing in america compares, except maybe cajun. Oh and steaks, we’re good at steaks.
Tyc00n Posted:
Really? Show me where I claimed that mcdonald’s hamburgers are healthier than corned beef and cabbage 
All I said was that industrialization has given us unprecedented access to the proteins and fats our that our bodies need. McDonalds is an inevitable consequence of industrialization? Tinned corned beef doesn’t count? Why?
TyCoon posted:
A misquote? Ok. Anyway, the above is an exceedingly torturous piece of reasoning. You choose longevity as the sole metric of health (why?), then you claim (apparently) that the longevity of modern japanese couldn’t have anything to do with improvements in their diet because the older generation isn’t tall, ignoring the enormous gains teh japanese have made in physical stature during the last 50 years thanks to the modernisation of their economy. I really don’t know what to say to you, except to reiterate that my basic claim remains uncontroversial: people are stronger, taller, and healthier when they get enough protein in their diets. That’s pretty ahrd to argue with.
I hit a night market straight off the plane tonight and indulged in a huge flat, deep fried chicken thing. It looked like a roadkill victim and it was covered in salt, MSG and other random stuff
Damn… It was great
But seriously - Ive been working hard to get into shape the last few months before I got here. Was walking for 90 mins a day and dropped a few belt notches
Some great advice here for healthy eating - cant wait to try one of those green leafy veges and wheat grass shakes - I love stuff like that 
Ever wondered why vegetarian Taiwanese would not go to a non-vegetarian restaurant and order vegetables? Because many restaurants and households use pork fat in cooking. It gives an inviting aroma to the food.
I once treated my students to McDonalds, and one of the parents went to find out if they cook their fries in animal fat or vegetable fat, cause her children were vegetarian.
When I want meat, I want meat, but when I want to eat vegetables, I really don’t want vegetables prepared in animal fat. And I find everytime I eat a Taiwanese meal, my lips and mouth are covered with oil. It’s disgusting and it’s just as disgusting to look at another person with an oil covered mouth!
Japanese cooking is simpler and healthier. But Thai and Korean are okay too.
[quote=“Tyc00n”][quote=“beautifulspam”]
Of course if you cut the fat out of your diet your stomach won’t be used to digesting fats. But why did you cut the fat in the first place?
Once again, assumptions. Fat is bad. Calories are evil.
Look, it is one of the wonders of industrialization that once-scarce proteins and fats are now abundant. Enjoy them! We humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history. And yet so many people in the “health food” movement seem eager to revert to an anemic, pre-industrial diet of boiled leaves and tree bark. :loco:
[/quote]
You are talking a load of shyte. Its true that we humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history, because of medical breakthroughs. Not because of diet.
The leading cause of death in the West is heart attack primarily caused by poor diet resulting from excessive cholesterol and saturdated fat (often combined with a lack of exercise).[/quote]
Have to disagree with you Tycoon. People who are nutrition deficient are shorter than those who aren’t. We ARE taller than our ancestors. I was shocked, for example, when I visited Gettysburg Battlefield (a famous battle in the US civil war for those who aren’t Americans), and I saw the uniforms of Confederates and Union soldiers that had been preserved and were on display. These MEN were my size or smaller (5’8" and 140-160 pounds). Nutrition and the technologies that have made food abundant have had more to do with our stature these days than medical breakthroughs. Medical breakthroughs as in medicinals, and surgeries have allowed us to live longer lives.
[quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height]Nutrition is the most important factor in determining height; and height records from military records and other documents can be used to quite accurately compare nutrition and height in various eras.
. . . . .
Epidemiological studies have also demonstrated a positive correlation between height and intelligence. The reasons for this association appear to include that height serves as a biomarker of nutritional status or general mental and physical health during development, that common genetic factors may influence both height and intelligence, and that both height and intelligence are affected by adverse early environmental exposures.
[/url][/quote]
Bodo
On good fats versus bad fats:
[quote][url=http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html]Unfortunately, this simple message is now largely out of date. Detailed research -much of it done at Harvard - shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, isn’t really linked with disease. What really matters is the type of fat in the diet. New results from the large and long Women’s Health Initiative Dietary Modification Trial showed that eating a low-fat diet for 8 years did not prevent heart disease, breast cancer, or colon cancer, and didn’t do much for weight loss, either.(1-4)
What is becoming clearer and clearer is that bad fats, meaning saturated and trans fats, increase the risk for certain diseases while good fats, meaning monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.
And cholesterol in food? Although it is still important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, dietary cholesterol isn’t nearly the villain it’s been portrayed to be. Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what’s most important. High blood cholesterol levels greatly increase the risk for heart disease. But the average person makes about 75% of blood cholesterol in his or her liver, while only about 25% is absorbed from food. The biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in the diet[/url].
. . . . .
Bad Fats
Saturated fats are mainly animal fats. They are found in meat, seafood, whole-milk dairy products (cheese, milk, and ice cream), poultry skin, and egg yolks. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats, including coconut and coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil.
Most of the trans fats in the American diet are found in commercially prepared baked goods, margarines, snack foods, and processed foods. Commercially prepared fried foods, like French fries and onion rings, also contain a good deal of trans fat.
Good Fats
Unsaturated fats are found in products derived from plant sources, such as vegetable oils, nuts, and seeds. There are two main categories: polyunsaturated fats (which are found in high concentrations in sunflower, corn, and soybean oils) and monounsaturated fats (which are found in high concentrations in canola, peanut, and olive oils).
Fish, an important source of the polyunsaturated fat known as omega-3 fatty acid, has received much attention for its potential to lower heart disease risk. There is strong evidence that fish and fish oil consumption reduces the risk of heart disease deaths and so-called “sudden deaths.”
. . . . .
It is a common belief that the more fat you eat, the more body fat you put on, and the more weight you gain. This belief has been bolstered by much of the nutrition advice given to people over the past decade, which has focused on lowering total fat intake while increasing carbohydrate intake. But it isn’t completely true, and the advice has been misguided. For example, while Americans have gradually decreased the proportion of calories they get from fat over the last decade, rates of obesity have increased steeply.
. . . . .
Although more research is needed, a prudent recommendation for losing weight or maintaining a healthy weight is to be mindful of the amount of food you eat in relation to the amount of calories you burn in a day. Exercising regularly is especially beneficial.
[/quote]
A little here on Avocado. Just about my favorite food fat. Olive oil drizzled on fresh bread with balsamic vinegar comes second.
Bonus in Taiwan is that the seeds will actually grow if you stick them in a little water. We have 10 small avocado trees starting to out grow the apartment so the fascination is wearing off.
[quote]Avocado Cholesterol
Lowering cholesterol with avocado fat.
Avocado cholesterol diet can lower cholesterol by 8 percent because of the avocado fat, compared with 5 percent for the low-fat diet.
Avocado cholesterol diet is beneficial for lowering cholesterol, despite of avocado fat content and carbohydrate. The reason is that avocado is a great source of heart-healthy monounsaturated fat. The avocado fat is a type of fat that may actually help to raise levels of HDL ("good"cholesterol) which actually protects arteries, while lowering levels of LDL (“bad” cholesterol).
In case you are not familiar, HDL or the good cholesterol is the one that cleanses the arteries from the LDL or bad cholesterol build up. So, it flows naturally that the higher the HDL/good cholesterol the less is LDL/bad cholesterol.
Types of fat and avocado fat.
You need not worry about the avocado content of fat, as this fat is not harmful nor does it increase your cholesterol levels. To distinguish the types of fat, including avocado fat, you need to understand saturated fats, monounsaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats.
Saturated fats, are those types of fat that are harmful and increase cholesterol levels. However, monounsaturated fats(avocado fat is of this type) and polyunsaturated fats, are not harmful and do not increase cholesterol levels. On the contrary monounsaturated fat and avocado fat help lower cholesterol.
Avocado cholesterol lowering effect.
According to a recent study in Brisbane, Australia reported that eating avocados daily for three weeks improved blood cholesterol in middle-aged women better than a low-fat diet did. The avocado diet reduced total cholesterol 8 percent compared with 5 percent for the low-fat diet. Most important, avocados improved the good HDL-cholesterol ratio by 15 percent.
The daily amount of avocado ranged from 1/2 avocado for small women to 1 1/2 for large women. Expected outcome: By eating avocados, heart patients could cut their risk of heart attack 10-20 percent and death rates 4-8 percent in 3-5 years.
Why avocado fat lowers cholesterol?
As mentioned above, avocado fat content is the reason to lower cholesterol since it is monounsaturated fat.
Another reason is that avocado packs more of the cholesterol-smashing beta-sitosterol (a beneficial plant-based fat) than any other fruit. Beta-sitosterol reduces the amount of cholesterol absorbed from food. So the combination of beta-sitosterol and monounsaturated fat makes the avocado an excellent cholesterol buster.
Beta-Sitosterol has an apparent ability to block the bad LDL cholesterol absorption from the intestine, resulting in lower blood cholesterol levels. The Australian study not only reported that eating either half or a whole avocado fruit per day for a month succeeded in lowering cholesterol levels, but at the same time most people in the study lost weight. [/quote]