Yes, that was a dumb thing for Bidden to say, and he isn’t my top choice. However, what Nirenberg said is an opinion, you can choose to disagree with an opinion. W. Bush and Trump often insist on being correct when they get plain facts wrong, like the unleash the Chang story.
Ok, He would be fine, sniff some kids as a photo op from time to time, the decision making is going to be done by a compendent team I have no doubt.
Nirenberg said what? who is Nirenberg and why do I care he is saying something no less profound than I said 15 minutes ago.
Yeah they do that, what do you call Benghazi and the protests were about a video, you know, no one likes to admit they were wrong.
This whole belief is based on one quote from Biden taken out of context and didn’t even say what you want it to. These things take a life of their own. Now every conservative believes there was a concerted campaign by what the MSM and the deep state? to call Trump racist. They also seem to forget that he was praising China just a few weeks before while the US was selling them millions in PPE.
Let’s be honest about what actually happened instead of trying to score points to support our narrative.
Errr ok, being honest do you feel Biden is up for events like the G8+5? The whole thing seems to be taking a toll on Trump, what makes you think Biden is up for it?
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Because he can still walk down a ramp.
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Honest about what happened? Like drinking bleach or calling neo nazis fine people? Give me a break on honestly. Biden is soft on China, has always been. This whole spin on how trump might turn his back on Taiwan while in the best period of Taiwan US relations is the most ridiculous blind attempt to keep the narrative going.
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You are completely ignoring a pattern of behavior for the sake of keeping your narrative. When has Trump ever not turned his back on an ally if he thought it would benefit him?
Once again, the only way to have a discussion is for us to pretend that this is a normal president who acts rationally. I’m not going to keep up the charade and ignore the obvious for the sake of appeasing your narrative that he’s so good for Taiwan. He has betrayed every other ally so I see no reason deep in his heart he has a soft spot for Taiwan. The Taiwanese would be foolish to depend on that also.
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What is my narrative? Even when I hated Trump, I’ve recognized that he pretty much improved US Taiwan relations on day 1. It’s you who is keeping your narrative. All you have is speculation…I’m looking at what’s in front of me that is happening. AKA reality. The day Trump turns his back on Taiwan, is the day I’ll say it. I know this hurts your own bias narrative on the guy. Other posters, even democrats in the thread like @OysterOmelet can all see clearly that he’s done far more than anyone else.
I never said that nothing good for Taiwan has come out of it. But you are also ignoring the bad - the escalated threatening posture that China has now taken towards Taiwan, HK and certainly isn’t being helped by the US policy of unilateral antagonism. Now unification seems inevitable for many Taiwanese.
The only bias here is the one where I have towards multilateral action (i.e. working together with your allies) being many times more effective than going it alone. Trade wars are foolish. Instead we cooperate more with Japan and Korea to increase their military spending and establish a trade bloc to completely shut China out. A policy like the TPP is the only policy I have seen close to a multilateral agreement to contain China. If you think the only win we can get is making China look bad with the virus and calling President Tsai, then I think you’re understimating the effectiveness of working with our allies.
I’m not underestimating anything. I’m seeing more support than ever before for my home country. So yes, I’m happy about it. I’m not delusional about it all being perfect.
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On the contrary, unification now seems less inevitable for many Taiwanese.
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Yup. You’re talking to one of them who feels that way. Unification seemed like the path during Obama years. Taiwan was ignored for the most part. Barely communicated on anything.
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You could feel the mood change when Trump took that call. Before the pervasive attitude was that every country was going to eventually sell Taiwan out for a slice of China pie and that unification was just a matter of time. Of course the Wuhan plague and loss of sovereignty in Hong Kong are important parts of the story, but the role of Trump and the recent pro-Taiwan legislation can’t be denied. Unless you’re one of those people so caught up in the Orange Man Bad narrative that you can’t see what’s going on.
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Thank you both for that scientific survey of your feelings. As I said, not denying nothing good has happened for Taiwan. Simply arguing it is more effective to work with your allies then go it alone. The negative impacts to the region and our alienating of our allies you are underestimating. There are much better ways to achieve our goals and get better results.
If you think that means orange man bad, I don’t give a shit because one of the main reasons he is ineffective is his inability to work with others like our allies. So much for the art of the deal.
Heres a more empirical look at the situation:
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Idk why this is somehow on Trump. HK is sadly part of China, it very unfortunately is an internal issue. It’s been like this since the British handed HK back, and most people knew the 1 country 2 system was a lie. We just hoped for the best and hoped HK kept enough autonomy till the day China changes. They have no independent government, no military. Very little anyone can do for them.
HK is a barometer of what will happen to Taiwan. Trump’s yelling in the background does not help the situation. All inputs need to considered. See the above graph that measures the various inputs leading to a current environment where the majority of Taiwanese believe China will force reunification.
We need to be smart and strategic by leveraging our allies. Bluster and chest thumping might feel good for you but they are not the most effective means.
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If Taiwan becomes part of China. Taiwan and HK’s situation is completely different in reality. A little stretch of ocean, a military, and an independent government goes a long way.
It doesn’t just feel good. Things are actually improved from before. Maybe it does take some chest thumping, as that’s clearly the language the CCP speaks and understands. Not to say we can’t also get our allies to help, but it does seem all this chest pumping has contributed to the environment of other countries now also seeing Taiwan as important part of limiting Chinese expansion. Of course, Taiwan’s success and China’s authoritarian incompetence played a huge role as well.
Agreed. But good luck getting allies to work with us now. Especially after discussions with North Korea have completely fallen apart while we are blaming South Korea for not spending enough. While I may agree that Korea, Japan, other NATO countries need to spend more, encouraging further investment and joint military cooperation rather than publicly yelling at them would be more effective IMO.
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I also agree. Trump lacks the diplomatic touch needed with some countries. His brashness might work for bullies like China, not so much with SK or Japan. Although i think EU NATO countries needed a good yelling at for what they spend.