Why should Israel care about the negative publicity

[Chewycorns]

[quote=“Tigerman”]

[/quote]

I’m not completely surprised by her anti-Semitism. Her family is from Tripoli, Lebanon, and she really moved up the press ranks covering John Kennedy. Perhaps 'ole Joe Kennedy was really responsible for her rapid advancement. After all, he was a Hitler apologist, war coward, and notorious anti-Semite. They probably hit it off from the very beginning. No wonder she loves the Kennedy’s so much!!!

You would think that Helen, her family having roots in a Lebanese town that was controlled successively by the Assyrian Empire, Persian Empire, Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Caliphate, the Seljuk Empire, Crusader States, the Mamluks, the Ottoman Empire and France, would understand geopolitics and the changing nature of boundaries. All is fair in love and war, and Israel has been attacked directly or indirectly three times since its creation by its aggressive neighbours ('48 and '73) and had its shipping lanes (Straits of Tiran) closed which is basically a declaration of war ('67). Hamas continues to ship arms through ships, and Israel is portrayed as a villain by having the audacity to defend itself again from aggressors?

Now people can try and move Jews back to Germany or Poland as Helen suggests, but you can be sure they’ll get their ass kicked by the professionalism, chutzpah, and Sabra ‘can do’ attitudes of the IDF and Israelis. Again, being Lebanese, she should be learning from history. Last time they took on the Israelis and the Christian Falange militias, the PLO got their ass handed to them on a platter.

What doesn’t surprise me either is the liberal passivity over her comments. Imagine if a journalist, or a columnist, said the same thing about blacks or Hispanics, they would already have lost their jobs. And so many liberal journalist and politicians have often referred to her as a national treasures.

Anti-Semitism seems to be alive in the liberal press corp in the US just as it is in the corridors of power in Old Europe. Shame on her for her comments and on the press for not really going after her.

[politbureau]

I see no difference between bigots like Helen Thomas who claim that Israelis should leave the land of their birth and “go home” and bigots who claim Palestinians should leave the land of their birth and “go home.”

[Dr_McCoy]

At least Thomas made an apology.

[TainanCowboy]

Helens apology…well…sort of an apology…an “apology-like” statement…

Helen Thomas: Hey, sorry about that whole “Jews out of Palestine” thing

Thomas has a long history of distorting the facts about Israel…

[politbureau]

Article 33, Fourth Geneva Convention. No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

State secrets – blockaded items:

[quote]. . . Israel has never published a list of banned items, saying it approves requests on a case-by-case basis. Items allowed have changed over time, which has left humanitarian organisations and commercial importers constantly attempting to guess what will be approved. . . . Israeli human rights group, Gisha . . . has been trying, for more than a year, using freedom of information legislation, to squeeze information from the state about what exactly is allowed for import to Gaza, and why.

Gisha’s director, Sari Bashi, says she is no security expert, “but preventing children from receiving toys, preventing manufacturers from getting raw materials - I don’t see how that’s responsive to Israeli security needs.” And she says that some of the prohibitions appear to be absurdly arbitrary: “I certainly don’t understand why cinnamon is permitted, but coriander is forbidden. Is there something more dangerous about coriander? Is coriander more critical to Gaza’s economy than cinnamon? This is a policy that appears to make no sense.”

She argues that if there is a logic behind such decisions, the military should reveal what it is. Now, after several months’ waiting, the state has given its response to the court, in a written submission, seen by the BBC. The Israeli authorities also confirm the existence of four documents related to how the blockade works: how they process requests for imports into Gaza, how they monitor the shortages within Gaza, their approved list of what is allowed in, and a document entitled “Food Consumption in the Gaza Strip - Red Lines” which sets out the minimum calorie intake needed by Gaza’s million and a half inhabitants, according to their age and sex. . .

In each case, the state argues that disclosure of what is allowed in and why would, in their words, “damage national security and harm foreign relations”. It offers, instead, to reveal the contents of the documents to the court in a private session with the judge.

'The lack of clarity causes immense frustration not just among Gazans, but among aid groups, diplomats, and the United Nations - which has described Israel’s blockade as “collective punishment” The problem, they say, is not just the shortages themselves, but the unpredictability and changing nature of what is permitted for import. . . .

The BBC has received information from reliable sources that there are currently 81 items that are approved for import - from kidney beans to tinned meat - and as of March, shoes. Among the large range of goods currently forbidden are jam, chocolate, wood for furniture, fruit juice, textiles, and plastic toys.[/quote]

[TwoTongues]

[quote=“Chewycorns”]Now people can try and move Jews back to Germany or Poland as Helen suggests, but you can be sure they’ll get their ass kicked by the professionalism, chutzpah, and Sabra ‘can do’ attitudes of the IDF and Israelis. Again, being Lebanese, she should be learning from history. Last time they took on the Israelis and the Christian Falange militias, the PLO got their ass handed to them on a platter.

What doesn’t surprise me either is the liberal passivity over her comments. Imagine if a journalist, or a columnist, said the same thing about blacks or Hispanics, they would already have lost their jobs. And so many liberal journalist and politicians have often referred to her as a national treasures.

Anti-Semitism seems to be alive in the liberal press corp in the US just as it is in the corridors of power in Old Europe. Shame on her for her comments and on the press for not really going after her.[/quote]
She’s an old senile bat, dude, practically retired, she was called on it and she apologized. You’re way exaggerating the “non-event” of missing “liberal media” outrage - who’s referred to her as a national treasure since she made that statement? Lotta people used to love good ol’ Jimmy the Greek until in his senile years he made that comment about black people being “bred for sports, that’s why they’re better”, then no one would touch him with a ten foot pole… And besides, your side beats up on the so-called liberal media enough even in the most ridiculous cases without us having to jump in every time, part of that constant attack Lee Atwater mentality - attack even if it’s not true or barely true, the initial shitstorm of bullshit will be remembered by plenty of people to have the desired effect…

And though I joke about it whenever the opportunity rears its head, they should have given the Jews Bavaria at the end of the war, we woulda had good beer and BMWs, and be closer to our Swiss gold and painting stores. Some good veal and beef and chicken snausages, sauerkraut, it coulda all been good. Rolling hills, castles, etc. But no, Jews had to go for their “biblical homeland” nonsense in the middle of the fucking desert with no natural resources and surrounded by yet another group of people who hate them. And they’re supposed to be “smart” and the Chosen People…

[Tigerman]

@TwoTongues

Lotta people used to love good ol’ Jimmy the Greek until in his senile years he made that comment about black people being “bred for sports, that’s why they’re better”, then no one would touch him with a ten foot pole…

That’s always confused me.

Jimmy the Greek didn’t comment that blacks were bred for sports. But, he was absolutely correct in what he did say. It was a horrible truth that black slaves were bred for strength in the Americas. I never understood why it was considered racist to note that American blacks by and large have good genetics. Only the strongest were selected for shipment from Africa, and only the strongest of those survived the horrific journey across the Atlantic, and then those who made it were bred for strength and durability. Its horrible and its cruel. But, its absolutely true.

Go figure…

[TwoTongues]

Didn’t mean to misquote the guy, I was going from memory. here’s JtG’s original quote:

@Jimmy The Greek

The black is a better athlete to begin with because he’s been bred to be that way — because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner — the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.

I think there are 2 problems with that. First, he should not use the term “bred”, even though technically it may be correct. People breed animals, and even though many black folks were treated like animals in the first half of US history, there’s better words to use. “Bred” is denigrating, though perhaps unintentionally on the part of Jimmy.

Second, it’s easier for me (or you, if you’re white) not to think it’s a big deal about what he said, but a black guy (or girl) just might feel different. My best guess is that Jimmy was right in his intention but he should have known better than to say it that way, and in that forum - he was just an old school white who missed a beat on national television. The US wasn’t at that time, and isn’t now, a level playing field for black people (for whatever the reasons, not gonna argue them here), so it can be a painful subject.

[Tigerman]

@TwoTongues

First, he should not use the term “bred”, even though technically it may be correct. People breed animals, and even though many black folks were treated like animals in the first half of US history, there’s better words to use. “Bred” is denigrating, though perhaps unintentionally on the part of Jimmy.

I don’t know what his intention was. However, “bred” was the correct term precisely for the reason that you state. It was a particularly horrible form of slavery that was employed in the Americas. Humans were bred like animals and families were torn apart as part of that breeding program. I think its important that we all remember just how cruel and depraved that system and experience was.

@TwoTongues

Second, it’s easier for me (or you, if you’re white) not to think it’s a big deal about what he said, but a black guy (or girl) just might feel different. My best guess is that Jimmy was right in his intention but he should have known better than to say it that way, and in that forum - he was just an old school white who missed a beat on national television. The US wasn’t at that time, and isn’t now, a level playing field for black people (for whatever the reasons, not gonna argue them here), so it can be a painful subject.

Well, I do think it was a big deal. That’s why I think its important that we remember the way slavery was and what it did to blacks in America.

Whether JtG was old school or whatever, I think it was the media and the public that dropped the ball in responding with outrage at what JtG said. It could have been, as The One is fond of saying, a “teachable moment”. Instead, everyone was shocked without really knowing what they were shocked about.

[TwoTongues]

Here’s what I consider a “fair and balanced” article on the situation at the time - JtG used offensive phrasing in what he said, black folks probably don’t like to be thought of as “bred” like animals, as true as it may have been sometime a hundred years+ ago. The question was about civil rights in sports, and Jimmy went off on why he thinks black athletes are generally superior.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n3_v20/ai_6536853/

Wait, all this from Helen Thomas on oughtta get moved to a new thread, I don’t see this having to do with Israel’s response to the blockade breaking…

[Dr_McCoy]

It’s a very bad oversimplification to say that blacks are good atheletes because they were ‘bred’ that way. You get into the whole eugenics thing and stereotyping. You don’t know the extent of whatever selective reproduction took place and how it affected the black population as it is today. You have to explain the success of athletes from Africa who didn’t descend from slaves. I remember the Dodgers executive who made a remark about how black people didn’t have the intellectual capacity to be managers in the game. He got fired but that kind of casual remark shows how much this social Darwinism has ingrained itself into the common thought. It’s wrong and it’s racist.

[Tigerman]

@Dr. McCoy

It’s a very bad oversimplification to say that blacks are good atheletes because they were ‘bred’ that way. You get into the whole eugenics thing and stereotyping. You don’t know the extent of whatever selective reproduction took place and how it affected the black population as it is today. You have to explain the success of athletes from Africa who didn’t descend from slaves. I remember the Dodgers executive who made a remark about how black people didn’t have the intellectual capacity to be managers in the game. He got fired but that kind of casual remark shows how much this social Darwinism has ingrained itself into the common thought. It’s wrong and it’s racist.

Doc,

My point is that people wrongly (IMO) jumped all over JtG calling him a “racist”. I don’t believe that he was a racist. His remarks may or may not have been wrong (more likely part right part wrong), but, he didn’t state that blacks are good at sports because they are black. That would have been racist.

By the way, if you read the article that TT linked to, you will see that Jimmy the Greek was saying the opposite of what the Dodgers executive said.

[lbksig]

Rasmussen published a poll today on who Americans blame for the deaths in the Gaza ship incident.

[quote=“Rasmussen Report”]

49% Say Pro-Palestinian Activists To Blame in Gaza Ship Incident

Forty-nine percent (49%) of U.S. voters believe pro-Palestinian activists on the Gaza-bound aid ships raided by Israeli forces are to blame for the deaths that resulted in the high-profile incident.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 19% of voters think the Israelis are to blame. Thirty-two percent (32%) more are not sure.

But 51% say Israel should allow an international investigation of the incident. Twenty-five percent (25%) agree with the Israeli government and reject the idea of an international probe. Another 24% are undecided. [/quote]

It doesn’t look like the negative publicity is hurting Israel in the US. If anything, Hamas is looking worse after refusing the humanitarian aid unless it’s delivered by the Free Gaza movement people. The Turkish prime minister Erdogan is getting gold out of this incident. He’s able to that he can attack his political opposition as “Israeli advocates”, get support from the convervatives at home and propel himself upwards as a regional leader.

[politbureau]

Americans have proven themselves to be amoral imbeciles so who cares any longer what they think. No one has the right in the 21st century to deny 1.5 million human beings the necessities of life for any reason.

[urodacus]

Disown Hamas, disband the fundamentalist apparatus, renounce the intifadah and jihad, and accept the two-state solution to the Palestine ‘problem’, and then they might see some progress to restoring the safety and liveability of the Gaza enclave.

[TwoTongues]

@politbureau

Americans have proven themselves to be amoral imbeciles so who cares any longer what they think. No one has the right in the 21st century to deny 1.5 million human beings the necessities of life for any reason.

I agree with what you’re saying here, the Israelis should be letting in more aid, I believe it is a form of state sponsored terrorism - certainly it’s an attack on the civilian population as defined by the UN - though at the same time the leaders over there shouldn’t be refusing it too. At the same time, the government can’t just do what they want i.e. continuously attack your neighbor and deny their right to exist, and then claim they’re entitled to “the necessities of life”.

Israel is too hard-line on the civilian population, and some of the hard-line Jews in control over there should know better than to make racist statements against the government and the general population of Palestine. Fact is, Hamas and the hard-line Jews are similar in a lot of ways - targeting civilians sometimes, acting racist and hating the Other, keeping hostages (although Israel will call them “PoWs”), use of scare tactics to keep their people voting for them - Hamas just has far less capabilities.

The difference is, the Israeli endgame here - even the hard-liners (except for the religious zealots) - is not destruction of an entire people, nor denial of a state, whereas Hamas and the Palestinian hard-liners insist on denying Israel a right to exist. And there’s always the Holocaust looming big over Israelis, reminding them to Never Back Down.

[lbksig]

@politbureau

Americans have proven themselves to be amoral imbeciles so who cares any longer what they think. No one has the right in the 21st century to deny 1.5 million human beings the necessities of life for any reason.

And what proof do you have that that is actually happening? Yes, there is a blockade that inspects everything going into the Gaza strip for weapons. Hamas still managed to smuggle enough material to fabricate and launch 160 rockets since the Gaza war ended. Hamas launches indiscriminate rockets attacks into densely populated areas. Hell they killed a Thai farm worker with a rocket attack two months ago. Poor bastard was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

What you have is a list of goods compiled by the Gisha Legal Center based off what has been told to them by Palestinian businesspeople, the PCC and some international groups. It’s a list of goods. It doesn’t tell us anything we need to ask the most important question of all; why? Why was something approved or denied. Was it because the supplier had previous shipments show up with munitions hid in them? Did the company contracted to transport it have workers with ties to Hamas or Hezbollah move the goods? Did the importer try and smuggle weapons in the past? These are all legitimate criteria that would get an import shipment denied but are missing from the restrictions report.

I’m sure you’d point out the lack of electricity in the Gaza strip as Matt Yglesias pointed out (which was from a Foreign Policy article). Israel provides 70% of the electricity to the Gaza strip. The power plant in Gaza isn’t running at full capacity because Hamas diverts the fuel to other uses. They have to fuel those rockets somehow.

The residents in Gaza have food and supplies when Hamas doesn’t steal it from them or they don’t loot it themselves. The UN run summer camp that was torched two weeks ago is an example. The NGO offices that were ransacked. Remember the green houses that were bought in the Gaza strip by Jewish donors so that there would be fresh food for the Palestinians? 30% of them had the pumps and piping stolen..

Here’s a piece by a Danish reporter on the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza strip. It’s an interesting read if you have time.

[TwoTongues]

In the end, unless Israel does a VN-style “clean and sweep” operation (another great euphemism) and it actually works, this is gonna have to be settled by the Palestinian population throwing out Hamas and the zealots over there and saying enough is enough, and Israel is gonna have to stop building settlements. It’s just a question of when, that’s the waiting game Israel is playing, and they’ve got a strong enough army, the nuclear deterrent, and enough right wing zealots of their own supporting them in government to keep this going for quite a while longer.

[ice_raven]

@urodacus

Disown Hamas, disband the fundamentalist apparatus, renounce the intifadah and jihad, and accept the two-state solution to the Palestine ‘problem’, and then they might see some progress to restoring the safety and liveability of the Gaza enclave.

I think one of the great wasted opportunities in the last decade was when Hamas won the elections and was immediately vilified internationally, denied aid, denied money and support.

Hell, they won the election? They’re in charge? GREAT! Give them everything that entails, offer friendship and support, offer them respect and tolerance, and watch what happens. Hamas was a decentralized bunch of religious revolutionaries - so watch them try to rule. Make them accept responsibility for every nutjob with a rocket. They can’t provide electricity, food or water? Hamas appears incompetent to their own people. There’s more corruption? Hamas appears inefficient and criminal. Lone nutjobs are firing rockets? Show restraint: cut aid, fine the country, ask whether Hamas can control their own people.

But instead, there was instant international condemnation, and then everything that went well was because of Hamas, everything that went bad was because of Big Bad America and Israel.

[urodacus]

So you’re saying let Hamas take responsibility for the whole affair, ie give them enough rope and then they’ll die a slow death? I don’t think so.

Great album, by the way.