Why so much hatred?

Politics International Politics
21

I think it can be divided up pretty easily, as I’ve had quite a few civil discussions with old-school Republicans who are quite reasonable in their Buckleyish, Safireine ways. It’s the neocons that are full of rage and who won’t let go of a simple conversation.

My guess is that it stems from frustration about their failed policies – they’re stuck trying to figure out what the heck to do now that their optimistic predictions have all fallen through and everybody knows it was them. Iraq is a big mess, Afghanistan is gradually being retaken by the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and his network are making chumps out of us, the economy still sucks, and so on. It’s like those Family Circus cartoons in which the kids have no choice but to blame the emptied cookie jar on “Not Me” despite the chocolate cookie smudges all around their mouths.

22

Tomtom,

Thanks for correcting yourself, and I hope you won’t mind if I help you out a bit more.

Did you catch that? I said I don’t know a single person LIBERAL OR OTHERWISE who celebrates those atrocities that MaPo listed. Where you got “So Gao_bo is assuming Republicans agree with atrocities?” from is beyond me. And I assure you, I don’t.

My father and best friend are Republicans, as are the overwhelming majority of my co-workers (I work in Houston), so I can’t hold to the view that anything Republican is base and wrong, now can I? :wink:

I do think that many Republicans tend to think of their political views in moral terms, as has been said here. For example, many conservatives (sorry all you non-Americans out there for my usage of Democrat/Republican when I should be saying liberal/moderate/conservative) think of abortion as murder. It is no surprise then that they feel so passionate about trying to stop what in their eyes is mass murder. And I think that conservatives sometimes view the world without shades of gray…certainly there are lots and lots of intelligent, well thought out posts from conservatives on this forum (and lots that uhm, aren’t), but conservative talk radio and conservative pundits in general do commonly paint the world in black and white.

For example, the question of the war in Iraq is often posited such that: either you are a God-fearing stars and stripes in the eyes patriotic American who completely and utterly supports the war effort without question or thought, or you are a faggot wimpy tree hugging hippy who is damaging the morale of the troops and you should crawl in a hole and die.

But from what I gather from the conservative posters on this thread, they often feel similarly pigeon-holed and ostracized. Apparently we liberals are guilty of the same crime. I suppose the question of what is polarizing the American people is a topic for a different thread…

23

No thats not quite what the problem is. The Democrats or many of them claim to care about civil rights, womens rights, gay rights etc and then do nothing really about advancing those except to squeal that their rights are under threat from a Republican administration. Yet ask the women, gays and minorities in Afghanistan etc and other places what these groups have done for them as opposed to the US military and I think you will see the point. The point is that many on the far left are nihilists. This word is no longer used anymore with accuracy or a sense of what it involves but it is essentially belief in nothing and for those that believe in nothing, nothing is more threatening or disgusting than those who believe in something whether religion, patriotism or otherwise. This is why their sneers have grown increasingly louder under the Bush administration. Presidents are not supposed to say that they really believe in something, how unsophisticated! how unnuanced! Wheres my Gauloises?

Reminds me of the old joke. If nothing is stronger than God and the hole in a donut is nothing is the hole of a donut stronger than God? Anyway, these self hating nihilists can spew whatever they want out but no one really hates them on the far Right the moderate Right or the center to right. I think contempt is the right word and there is nothing a nihilist or far lefter hates more than contempt because that persons sole value in life is how sophisticated they are and if someone does not respect or admire that what else does that person have? They obviously believe in nothing themselves and even what they believe in is so much posturing. They would never actually go beyond talking about it to fight for it. So much posturing. So much posing and to elicit nothing but boredom from the right as Bush has shown. No White House visits for the glitterati, no slavish groveling for press interviews a la Carter and Clinton, just a total lack of concern, a total disinterest in their views. Must be very very very frustrating. But get used to it, the American people are wising up and we will not put our values or communities in thrall to a bunch of spoiled, unloved, unloving hypocrites and cowards. There, hows that for a spiel? hahahahahahaha

24

Just came across this as something which showed me a bit of the polarity in opinion in the States and also the demographic that mofangongren was talking about. I don’t think I’d be able to tell by appearance most of the people in this gallery if they were likely to be right, centre or left :

www.sorryeverybody.com

Obviously they’re worried about the world’s perception of the Us following the elections and I’m impressed at some of the inventiveness shown in there! (Spotted some acceptance of apology submissions from Taiwan as well.)

Anyhow, back to the thread - It seems to me that it comes down to party values that deal with things by way of hard power, i.e. military might harking back to imperialist days of yore, or soft power a la economic and multi-lateral strategy and communication. Perhaps levels of aggression are linked to how and whether you align yourself with these ways of doing things in the world.

Also found the counterpoint: werenotsorry.com/. Interesting to see that a number had chosen to be pictured brandishing firearms, ha.

25

[quote=“spook”]MT,

My view is Democrats initiated the modern era of incivility in public life during the Bork/Reagan days. It just wasn’t quite as viciously personal on such a widespread basis before that time.

I think many long-time politicians of both parties have made that observation.

I was also one of those (ex) Republicans who believed Bill and Hillary Clinton were guilty of moral turpitude – just as I believe George Bush is – and so aren’t the completely innocent victims of right-wing depravity many Democrats hold them up to be, though there were right-wing zealots who concocted fantastical charge against them on top of the valid ones.

Post 911 though when the Republican Party circled its wagons and went into its “you’re either with us or against us” mode, Republicans have all but abandoned rationality and taken civility in public life to new lows.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s it pretty much.

Well, I think you left out that low standards for POTUS - a slide begun under Clinton’s watch - have merely changed spots under Bush.

26

Fred, that is possibly the most ignorant statement you have ever posted on this forum, which is saying a lot. I recognize that you cast the first vote of your life in a presidential election last week and you have probably never taken any other political action in your life, but you really should read some history books and try to look at the world with a more open mind as you are apparently oblivious to the millions of Democrats and liberals who have devoted their lives, many of them literally sacrificing their lives, to a long struggle known as the Civil Rights movement, which has resulted in the striking down of countless discriminatory laws and practices against women, blacks and other minorities, immigrants, the disabled, the poor, the elderly, homosexuals and others, and the enactment of widespread legislation protecting such rights, most notably the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but also countless federal, state and local laws. From the highest levels of politics and religion to grassroots and community efforts, Democrats and liberals have engaged in protests, boycotts, lawsuits and all manner of other actions that have resulted in dramatic gains in civil liberties in the US and they continue to fight for such rights today, with an increased urgency now that the Bush administration is committed to turning back the clock and eliminating such fundamental rights.

By comparison, Fred, when is the last time you ever saw Republicans organizing a protest for anything except the right to own guns, wage war or deprive other citizens of rights?

27

the bush administration is committed to reversing the gains from the civil rights act? proof please.

seems you got so wrapped up in your hatred of bush that you’re making baseless charges now. :slight_smile:

28

I am hardly the first person to suggest the Bush administration is turning the clock backwards on civil liberties. Many hold that view and the subject is probably worthy of an entire thread to itself. Here’s one decent website that gives detailed proof in support of that view:

cccr.org/justice/index.cfm

Even better, the ACLU has an outstanding Website with well-organized and detailed explanation of relevant lawsuits and legislation. Before you make a snide, knee-jerk, cliched comment about the ACLU, check out their website. It contains abundant factual proof.

aclu.org/

I don’t have time to address the issue further presently, but I want to, so I will return later to answer you further.

29

more hysterical hyperbole from the left.

by the way, the first item on your first link is affirmative action. first of all, bush has done NOTHING about affirmative action because he considers it too hot to handle. that you would blame shifting public opinion on bush just shows how irrational your hate of bush is. secondly, affirmative action is the only form of government sanctioned institutionalized discrimination left in the us.

considering that many posters on this board will have asian kids, it’s curious to see people advocate a policy which dictates that those kids will have a disadvantage in college admissions simply because of their race.

30

[quote=“mofangongren”]I think it can be divided up pretty easily, as I’ve had quite a few civil discussions with old-school Republicans who are quite reasonable in their Buckleyish, Safireine ways. It’s the neocons that are full of rage and who won’t let go of a simple conversation.

My guess is that it stems from frustration about their failed policies – they’re stuck trying to figure out what the heck to do now that their optimistic predictions have all fallen through and everybody knows it was them. Iraq is a big mess, Afghanistan is gradually being retaken by the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and his network are making chumps out of us, the economy still sucks, and so on. It’s like those Family Circus cartoons in which the kids have no choice but to blame the emptied cookie jar on “Not Me” despite the chocolate cookie smudges all around their mouths.[/quote]

Brilliant post, Mofangongren, to which I’d like to add two words, “global warming.” This is my pet issue. I consider it the issue to end all issues. The neocon position seems to be that global warming doesn’t exist. Rush Limbaugh (I read his book) simply dismisses the problem - “the world is not that fragile.” End of argument. Yet the evidence keeps piling up that the world is that fragile, and 99% of scientists are convinced. But the neocons are in denial, and will continue to hold that position until the polar icecaps melt and New York City disappears under the waves. And when that happens, they’ll say it was the fault of the “defective Kyoto Protocol” which gave an unfair advantage to developing countries.

31

Is that because the Neocon ideaology is really right wing Democrat ideaology?

They’ve got the dogged Democratic radicalism, spine, and in your face mentality packaging a conservative resource grab.

32

For example … ???

If you need help, go to rushlimbaugh.com and go through any of his transcripts or free audio from his radio show. Rush Limbaugh is the left’s poster boy of a radio talk show host that preaches hate. If you, yourself, can go to his site and find anything you think is hateful, I’d like to see it posted here.

Oh, oooops! That takes work.

33

Are you a complete nut?

I took up your brain numbing challenge and opened the first story in the archives dated November 14. The very first lines in his warm up for his radio program were these:

Ladies and gentlemen, time to update a story that we had exclusively for you earlier in the week. This is from the Boca Raton News. You’ll remember that we had the story earlier this week (SEE: Post-Election Selection Trauma) that there were twelve, fifteen very distraught Kerry supporters who had sought psychological counseling for their trauma in Boca Raton. There’s an update on this story today involving me and this program. “More shocked John Kerry supporters on Wednesday sought psychological help with ‘post-election selection trauma’…” If you do the acronym: PEST. So that’s PEST, if you do the acronym there. That’s PEST: Post-election selection trauma, and if you are very relaxed in your pronunciation of “PEST,” you might say something else which would describe the attitude of some of these people. We don’t think there’s anything chicanerous about this. It’s probably just an accidental acronym.

It is all about hate. First, lets pick on these hopeless democrats who need psycological councelling aftertheir pathetic loss to Bush and what could be better than the opportunity to label them rodents or roaches.

34

so much hate from the left to catch up on.

first there’s the guy who said evangelicals should not be allowed to vote:
instapundit.com/archives/019271.php

then there’s the radio host using racial slurs against powell and rice:
10news.com/news/3932222/detail.html

(btw, he did apologize later…to aunt jemima. then he reiterated his racial slurs against powell and rice.)

those are the condensed highlights from this week’s edition of left-wing hate. tune in next week for more biogoted remarks from hate-filled blue staters! :slight_smile:

35

opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110005976

[quote]A recent informal survey at Yale, where students answered questions about academic freedom posed by the Yale Free Press, the conservative/libertarian student paper, also deserves attention. Although the entire first run of its November issue containing the study was stolen on campus, it can be downloaded at www.yale.edu/yfp. To sum up: While some Yalies said that politics either didn’t arise in class or caused no problem because they shared the professor’s views, others recounted unpleasant experiences. One example:

"My teacher came into class the day after the election proclaiming, ‘That’s it. This is the death of America.’ The rest of the class was eager to agree, and twenty minutes of Bush-bashing ensued. At one point, one student asked our teacher whether she should be so vocal, lest any students be conservatives. She then asked us whether any of us were Republicans. Naturally, no one volunteered that information, whereupon our teacher turned to the inquisitive student and said, ‘See? No one in here would be stupid enough to vote for Bush.’ "[/quote]

So, Mother Theresa, do you want to have an intellectually-honest debate on this, or are you going to stoop to your usual tactics of shutting down the debate when you begin to lose?

36

I’ll try again without the sarcasm.

Why is it that these repubs always complain that everyone hates them?

“The Canadians hate us, the French hate us, the blue states hate us, the Yale Profs hate us, the Arab world hates us…”

Maybe there is something in all that hatred. You put the clown back in office and then complain when the rest of the world exercises its right to question your judgement? What’s up with that? Maybe there is a hint or two in all that? What do ya say?

I’ll look for your response in the flounder forum…

37

Toe Save:

I for one am not complaining about anyone hating “us” because I do not care what the French government, the Socialist Workers Party or the professional protesters think? I for one would never dream of asking any of these people for their approval before I decided how to vote. Let them hate. It is all they can do. It is merely ironic that those that they hate are most responsible for delivering those things that they claim to care about most: democracy, human rights, higher standards of living, equality while those regimes they do support are most disastrous. Therein lies the irony and why so many like me have such complete and utter contempt for the left.

Let me give you an analogy. It would be comparable to a fat lazy woman laying around on the sofa all day watching soap operas and discussing how much she wants to lose weight. When someone gives her the option of getting a job, eating less and exercising more, she immediately becomes hostile and claims that the advice giver has no feelings, does not understand and that this has caused her to hate the advice giver. See what I mean?

38

Whiny Republicans are a different breed from whiny Democrats though both are annoying. Regarding the latter, thankfully vegetarians here in Taiwan are not like the self-righteous vegetarians back home :notworthy: . Usually people who tie themselves to a single cause naturally tend to sound whiny. Fred has constantly brought up complaints about how Bush or the radical right are misunderstood. Their noble causes of freeing the world via an overbloated military budget are being unfairly maligned by a motley gang of elitist miscreants. Then he huffs and says not. Hm…

39

[quote=“MaPoSquid”]http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110005976

[quote]A recent informal survey at Yale, where students answered questions about academic freedom posed by the Yale Free Press, the conservative/libertarian student paper, also deserves attention. Although the entire first run of its November issue containing the study was stolen on campus, it can be downloaded at www.yale.edu/yfp. To sum up: While some Yalies said that politics either didn’t arise in class or caused no problem because they shared the professor’s views, others recounted unpleasant experiences. One example:

"My teacher came into class the day after the election proclaiming, ‘That’s it. This is the death of America.’ The rest of the class was eager to agree, and twenty minutes of Bush-bashing ensued. At one point, one student asked our teacher whether she should be so vocal, lest any students be conservatives. She then asked us whether any of us were Republicans. Naturally, no one volunteered that information, whereupon our teacher turned to the inquisitive student and said, ‘See? No one in here would be stupid enough to vote for Bush.’ "[/quote]

So, Mother Theresa, do you want to have an intellectually-honest debate on this, or are you going to stoop to your usual tactics of shutting down the debate when you begin to lose?[/quote]

Does anyone else see a problem with anecdotes like the above? Well, here’s what I see is wrong with it:

America, as we have seen in recent elections is almost evenly divided between Republican and democratic party supporters. This should translate into half the student body supporting each party. half of any given class then should be composed of republican supporters. See what I’m getting at?

The above story is pure right wing paranoia and an egregious claim to victim status from a group that one, is hardly marginalized, and two, is all too contemptuous of the very notion of victimhood.

Since when can half a group be cowed in such a fashion? Well, it’s possible if there really is something to the claim that Republican are just not as educated as Democratic supporters. In which case it is entirely possible that they find themselves outnumbered in the halls of higher education. But no, it must be something else.

40

Just an observation. Not directed at anyone specifically.

Do you left wing ‘liberals’ actually read what you post?

I am constantly amazed by the pretentious insults, the condescending arrogance and the endless cliche’s used to reply to topics posted.
I will only speak for myself. Time and again I have posted topics on various items and have been personally attacked, belittlled and insulted. Funny thing, the ones doing it rarely, if ever actually post comments on the actual content of the article.
I have been called names, likened to a right-wing, trailer park living, ignorant towel boy. All by the supposed ‘cosmopolitan elite.’
Personally…I just laugh at it. I am not thin-skinned and also understand that I am far from perfect. I find it hilarious that someone would choose to publicly show they are so eat up with idealogiical hatred. Very strange.
And then there are the semantics/dissemblers. Immediately they seize upon some semantic error to dis-credit the post. Never mind that they have no comment on what the post actualy says. Hollow victory, eh?
And then there are the ones who simply post lies. Flat-out lies. These yahoo’s are funny also. Sad, but funny. They always get caught. And they always do it again.
I won’t even go into thread hijackers. I am going to use my rabbit with pancakes on its head post for them. I also recomend more humor.

Bottom line. We all have differing opinions on topics. This is a multi-cultural, muti-national board. Many of us here have lived and worked in a wide range of countries. Most are degreed, most have also come to realize that the awarding of sheepskin doesn’t magically create intellect, compassion or the ability to reason logically.
Merely insulting someone does not raise your status. It makes you look like an insecure punk.
This is my contribution to the “Hatred Thread.” Merry Christmas to All ! :thanks: