[quote=“almas john”]El Toro,
Good on you for sticking to your ground, and asserting what you believe.[/quote]
So did Hitler, and what a charming fellow he was.
[quote=“almas john”] Most people who are selling to the local foreign community would not voice such an unpopular opinion in such a fashion.
Personally, I think Mandela is overrated - the near saint-like status he has long enjoyed in the West is a bit more than he deserves. I’ve always thought he’s a good target for any up and coming Hitchens wannabee; just as Christopher Hitchens wrote a book demonizing Mother Teressa, so there is material and guaranteed publicity in taking on Mandela. There have been critical works written about Gandhi, and goodness knows there’s lots of ammo available for such a task.
It’s not that Mandela is a bad chap but there comes a time when the adulation should give way to a bit of nuance; perhaps this will happen a few years after his death. I do think a revisionist take on him would still come out giving him pass marks, that he was basically a good man who did a reasonable job. But I would not put him in the ranks of Aung San Suu Kyi and the Dalai Lama.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone here has lionized or made him out to be a saint. I think we’ve been quit fair that he was a terrorist prior to be locked up, but the main thing has been that he has made a great contribution to peace and reconciliation in SA (and helped avoid what could have been a brutal ending to Apartheid, apart from bringing in Afrikaners and giving them their dues of sorts) and has been one of the few decent statesmen, along with Desmond Tutu, on that continent. He has been the glue, for the most part, and a stabilizing factor. Does he have a tarnished history? Sure. Did he do things that he may not morally or ethically would have done otherwise? Sure. The man is not without fault. And sure, the majority idolize him, and why shouldn’t they? And all the other guys that could have rivaled him or who could have been greater were tortured and brutally murdered by El Toro’s “heroes”. So know way of knowing what we would have gotten out of the likes of Steve Biko.
I can see who is decent and who isn’t. Pieces of shit like Malema and Zuma are a waste of oxygen. But Mandela has atoned in part and certainly done more than many of his detractors. And before we start writing any revisionist books, let’s first have a look at how things go once he’s dead.
Btw, The Dalai Lama ran away into exile. What has he really achieved for Tibet? Internationally, no one seems to give a shit. Unless China implodes (like George Friedman predicts), they’re shit out of luck.
Ghandi had a lot going for him. The British occupying force was way smaller percentage wise than the Afrikaners in SA (where his non-violent ass was unceremoniously thrown off a train for being in the wrong section and refusing to move - those Dutchies don’t care much for non-violent objections, they’ll still fuck you up anyway), and unlike the blacks they weren’t corralled into easily manageable areas. His policies worked there, but would not have worked in SA. They didn’t give a fuck about sanctions, the international community or even terrorism (in fact, that probably gave them more of an excuse to forward their policies of regional destabilisation - yeah, no one really believes we were under a serious communist threat, only indoctrinated morons bought into that BS). At the end of the day a good argument can be made for this: The only reason the majority of whites voted yes in 1992 was to play international cricket and rugby.