Taiwan has been made a colony by more than just the Japanese and the PRC would like nothing better than to return the Taiwanese to their colonial shackles. The PRC is living in the past as it`s civil war ended a long time ago. They just want Taiwan as a a trophy they can put in their case like a hunter might stick some tacky animal head on a wall to boost his insecure manhood . I think Taiwan might consider unification one-day, but not with a regime that threatens war, thwarts their attempts at engaging the world and first demands surrender and submission.
I was merely stating that the formation of the PRC as well as the ROC on Taiwan were aided by outside forces. The civil war ended a long time ago with de facto demarcation points set. Besides, the ROC on Taiwan has never been part of the PRC.
How presumptuous!!! How many years have you known me? What`s my favourite flavour of ice cream? I have indeed lived in China, including 6 months in Xinjiang(East Turkestan). I was responding to your comment on racism as it pertained to Britain/Ireland. Again, why would any Taiwanese want to surrender their nation to that racist, homophobic incompetant, top-down, corrupt nightmare across the straits?
Glad to hear you got your head out of the bottle long enough to post something coherent from a Tom Clancey Novel.
hsiadogah,
Wow how unique to threaten someone online with physical harm for mere holding a different political view. Well it is a free society; people will rise to their natural level as they say.
Taichungmafia,
Given the fact that negotiations on the subject never occurred. What proof do you have that this is their intention? It can equally be argued that a Commonwealth be formed. But the first step is negotiations of course.
Show me the treaty between both sides that ended the Chinese Civil War.
Just because the losing side said its over, doesn’t mean it is actually over. The right to record history goes to the victor.
Thus the Cold War paradigm I suggest is an apt interpretation of the situation. It is more accurate to state the Cold War is over, yet PRC and ROC have not been able to move on. However, the PRC is moving towards a “softer” stance, whereas, ROC has been moving towards a “harder” stance in the past 10 years.
So what is you interpretation of the source of conflict? Did they kill every Muslim Chinese in the area? Or was it a targeted police effort on those they wish to separate Xinjiang from the central government, and were prone to public bombing?
I already dismissed the all those other European and non-related tangents to the Straits Issues. Just like I’m dismissing the ethnic Muslims in China wanting their own nation within China as different from the Taiwan issue.
[quote=“ac_squealer”]
Wow how unique to threaten someone online with physical harm for mere holding a different political view.[/quote]
Threatening you with violence and wishing you experience a spiritual awakening are two entirely different ideas. Kind of like the difference between the firing squad and ‘reeducation through labor’, wouldn’t you say?
So you support PRC current 500+ missle policy to stimulate Taiwan’s spiritual enlightening at detering TI as well. I’m glad you approve of the PRC finally.
I haven’t read one post in this thread but I have a question anyway. What has China done for Taiwan in the last hundred years? I mean besides being a pain in the ass. Chiang Kai Shrek brought a bunch of art and money I imagine. Why not agree to pay it back with interest and scrap the military projects.
Where have you been? Beijing is an empire and wants to force Taiwan under its colonial edicts. Even KMT leader Lien Chan has said this is unacceptable. Im actually a fan of Commonwealth, but not with the surrender and submission precondition that one-China would entail. Beijing needs to recognize the obvious fact that the two sides are separate entities that have never been one.
Show me the treaty that says the Korean War is over, but we all know it is. You`re right, no armistice treaty was ever signed.
You`re right again, the PRC was unsuccessful in their 1958 incursion into Taiwan and hence are the loser. The victorious record goes to Taiwan.
This is absolute rubbish. This current hard imperial policy of Beijing is a reaction to the Tianamen massacre when Taiwans evolution from authoritarianism was regarded as the single biggest threat to the survival of the CCP. Even Mao once said we must recognize that theres now 2 Chinas after the civil war. You see, its clearly Beijing thats become harder. Taiwans only crime is democratic evolution.
If I was a Uighur, Id be highly offended. East Turkestan is another example of Beijings colonialism. The ethnic cleansing thats going on there under the guise of "striking hard at separatists" would make the former Yugoslavia blush. No, the Uighurs arent prone to public bombing.
Youre not very open-minded about this. Ill leave East Turkestan for another thread and stick with Taiwan for now. However, I have a hard time believing your positions would seriously resonate with any Taiwanese. I could be wrong, but I`ve never met a single Taiwanese who supports your positions.
Where have you been in the past year Beijing had said the following about the strait issue
The 3 links are independent of the political sovereignty
They are willing to entertain an ROC that has its own military, own political process, and own economy under the “One China” paradigm. It was the pre-cursor to officially announcing “1 country 3 system” paradigm.
Another tangent to the Strait Issue. What does a police action in PRC have to do with Taiwan right now. Nothing.
I take discussions about the Strait Issues very seriously.
It would be like me injecting slavery and institutional racism every time someone mentioned the USA in a discussion. Interesting moral issues, but rarely part of real solutions in life.
I believe in the pro-3 links and pro-eventual reunification stance. I believe there are quite a few Taiwanese that share my view.
1)Li Wei Yi has said that “Three Links” are taken as domestic affairs within one country.
2) Qian Qi Chen has also stated that air and sea routes are an internal matter.
Again, this stubborn insistance on surrender and submission before talks can begin. This is completely unacceptable to the Taiwanese mainstream.
Instead of quoting me out of context, go back and see what I wrote and how it responds to what you previously posted.
I havent met any Taiwanese YET who would support surrender and submission under "One-China" first before cross strait talks can resume. By the way, I also think 3 links is a good idea. However, I dont think selling out their country first is advantageous for the Taiwanese. As for the future, unification/republic can occur at a much later date. Chinese Commonwealth is probably a good medium term goal.
I think you are jumping too far ahead of yourself sometimes.
If you want to have a serious discussion with me fine.
But how am I to have a serious discussion with someone that says stuff like.
Unless I am mistaken there are RoChina and PRChina right now. Show me any documents that states agreeing to the “One China” policy, automatically means ROC is submitting themselves to becoming an colony of PRC. The PRC even suggested that “One China” policy is not a pre-requisite to begin negotiation to the 3 links. (soft position)
But to my dismay my government has stated the negotiation can only begin, if and only if, PRC agrees that ROC is recognized as an equal states. (hard position)
PRC and ROC can barely pass the first hurdle in negotiations for the 3 links, let alone the complex sovereignty issue of China.
So I find the suggestion that ROC submitting to become a colony somewhat far fetched in a peacetime environment.
You understand that the 3 links not the same as the sovereignty issue of China. PRC and ROC are decades away from even beginning to resolve the sovereignty issue. Best resolve the 3 links first.
I have read in various posts from the Taidu advocates that the treasures stolen by Chaing Kai Shek and now in the Taiwan museum could be returned to China in return for peace and Taiwan independence.
I think this is a stupid idea and China would definitely not acquiesce to this proposition.
Instead I think all such treasures plus those left behind by Chaing Kai Shek and now on display in the Shanghai museum belong to neither side.
All such artifacts or treasures belong only to the Chinese people as a whole.
And because they belong to the Chinese people (race) they should be independently managed by a public company whose shares should be listed on the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong (the closest place to neutrality).
That way all the revenues from selling some of the collection to rich buyers or collected from entrance fees etc… can be used for aid work, uplifting those people in Taiwan or China still below the poverty line. Revenues can also come from education, visits from school etc…
Some treasures are not necessarily from the Huaren ethnic group and may belong to other minority groups like miao, bai,etc China has 56 and the aborigines on Taiwan. As such a portion of the aid money can be made also available to these minority group.
Anway the quicker we list these treasures, and museums that hold the displays as a joint stock company, the earlier we can begin to help the poor people.
ac’s on good form here. Accusing others of bringing up side issues and demanding evidence to back up claims. God bless him I say, may his dillusions continue to humour us and his arguments continue to offer a target for merciless humiliation after a bad day at the office. Imagine, our own online punch bag. ac, I salute you
Incorrect. The Montevideo Convention is only a peacetime formulation for discussing the status of various geographic areas, and whether they meet the conditions for statehood.
If you want to understand how the wartime forumlation works, you need to read Hartzell’s research report on the Montevideo Convention and Military Occupation. It is available online and is linked to the Findlaw website at findlaw.com/01topics/24inter … tions.html
Taiwan’s current situation arose out of the events of WWII.
Nonsense.
This is a similar situation to what we have seen various posters ranting and raving about in these forums before . . . . . . and the crux of the matter is that you are confusing the situations of “effective territorial control” with “sovereignty”. The two are not the same. I don’t know, maybe it’s a difficult concept to grasp . . . . . . . I suggest that you read Hartzell’s analysis.
…I told you - AC Squealer just cannot resist… :loco:
Taichungmafia- don’t worry about AC, he’s living in NY and has never been and experienced the PRC like you - he just spouts the nonsense that has been indoctrinated in him since he first took his first steps as a baby (probably at about 5 years old with his intellect!)
So, I am supposed to feel sorry for the Taiwanese ?
Because they’ve got some missiles pointing at them ?
Boo Hoo ! That’s terrible ! Imagine having missiles pointed at you ! Christ that must really ruin your day ! That would really take the shine off the new Mercedes for the second wife in Shanghai. Bummer.
Does anybody think for one minute that these cowards would be here if they thought there was a snowball’s chance in hell of those nasty scary missiles being fired in anger ?
How many fucking missiles were pointed at the UK during the Cold War ? More than 500 anyway.
Sorry, I have to stop now, my tears of laughter at the idea of the poor little downtrodden Taiwanese needing a big sympathy hug are blinding me.
So, like the PRC government has killed exactly how many Taiwanese people since 1949 ? Figures please.
I’m sorry, why are we supposed to feel sorry for the Taiwanese, I’ve forgotten. What is it they lack due to not being in the UN ? Was it hospitals, running water, sanitation, education ? Oh yeah, now I remember, they could make more money if they were in the UN. Aah. Important.
I don’t recall anyone asking you to feel sorry for the Taiwanese. I guess I didn’t make it clear enough in my post. I wasn’t asking you to feel sorry for anyone. I was accusing you of being a hypocrite. I think you’ve thoroughly confirmed that with your most recent post.
Something tells me that you’d feel differently if you were a farmer in Tainan with no foreign passport or option of escape.
Nobody was denying the right of the UK to exist or defend itself. I don’t recall any other country threatening to attack the UK if it tried to build its own nuclear deterent.
Is it that your views have been tainted from having a PRC born wife? You seem as rabid in your hatred as some mainlanders are in their pro-unification diatribes.
OK, let’s force Ireland out of the UN and EU. I think my country, being a big one and having much more influence in the world than Ireland, should tell every other country in the world to break off their diplomatic relations with Ireland. No more EU money for Ireland; the drunken louts were just in it for the money anyway. Screw any uppity Irish who have a problem with being told that they can’t be a recognized nation.
I don’t recall anyone asking you to feel sorry for the Taiwanese. I guess I didn’t make it clear enough in my post. I wasn’t asking you to feel sorry for anyone. I was accusing you of being a hypocrite. I think you’ve thoroughly confirmed that with your most recent post. [/quote]
Where ? What ?
Something tells me that you’d feel differently if you were a farmer in Tainan with no foreign passport or option of escape. [/quote]
So how long are they going to wallow in self pity ? Most Taiwanese don’t, actually, they get on with the job of making money and doing what they can. The original question was "why should they give up their sovereignty. They haven’t got any sovereignty to give up.
Nobody was denying the right of the UK to exist or defend itself. I don’t recall any other country threatening to attack the UK if it tried to build its own nuclear deterent. [/quote]
What ? I’m sorry, does China not allow the ROC to have an army ? Last time I looked the ROC had an army - a big one, too, with lots of second-hand US armaments. I do not deny the ROC the right to defend itself. If it fights a Chinese invasion it will be right to do so, and I hope it is successful.
Is it that your views have been tainted from having a PRC born wife? You seem as rabid in your hatred as some mainlanders are in their pro-unification diatribes. [/quote]
I wondered when you were going to bring that up. I don’t respond well to ad hominem attacks, in fact I’m not going to respond to that insult at all. No I’ve changed my mind, I will. What the fuck do you know about my wife, or what she and her family have had to put up with in China ? Do you think everyone in China loves being ruled by the CCP ? Jesus Christ. If this is just going to deteriorate into a slagging match, then forget about it.
OK, let’s force Ireland out of the UN and EU. I think my country, being a big one and having much more influence in the world than Ireland, should tell every other country in the world to break off their diplomatic relations with Ireland. No more EU money for Ireland; the drunken louts were just in it for the money anyway. Screw any uppity Irish who have a problem with being told that they can’t be a recognized nation.[/quote]
But what good does it do ? Let’s say Taiwan is recognised tomorrow. What difference will it make ? Will the hospitals and schools and roads and water supply all improve overnight ? No. Some people will have a little warm feeling in their tummies, that’s all.
Of course Ireland had its phones and roads put in by the UK and Germany via the EU. So what ? Do you think there would be any infrastructure in Taiwan whatsoever if it wasn’t for the Japanese. Good God we’re in the 21st century and there isn’t even clean drinking water and you’re told you can’t put your used bog roll down the loo ! You have to put it in a plastic bag, and keep it in your house until the trucks come and you can throw your crap into the general refuse. They are as we speak pumping raw untreated sewage into Danshui river.
Instead of droning on and on about China, it would be a damn sight more of a benefit for the people who live on this island, and who aren’t millionaires if the government built a country worth fighting for, or at least that people might want to live in even if they get rich. What Taiwan lacks in certain areas is not due to China, it is due to a failure on the part of the successive governments to do anything for the people of Taiwan.
Very very easy to blame China for everything, and going on and on about sovereignty. Nero fiddles while Rome burns. If direct links aren’t sorted out soon this whole island is going down the economic tubes. If that’s what people want, then of course they should have it. I have a feeling the vote for the DPP in the last election was a message that no amount of economic strength is a substitute for feeling all warm inside about being “Taiwanese”. I think that’s sad, because I think people will be worse off in the long run without a strong economy here. But it’s their call.
The sovereignty issue is a red herring, and at best is a legal question for chin-stroking academics. How much sovereignty does the UK have ?
Hi Taichungmafia, could you open another thread and tell us (or at least me) what you saw in Xinjiang(East Turkestan)?
What’s the policies and current situations there? How much military presense or conflicts is there and how do people there feel? Are there any religious oppressions and what’s their racial policies.
Screw any uppity Irish who have a problem with being told that they can’t be a recognized nation.