Damn . . . I must not be human then . . . if violence is rare in the species. I get pissed off just about every day on the way to work . . . over an hour commute one way. I get aggressive, and cut people off to get to where I need to go. Usually happens when I’m stressed (those ole hormones - adrenalin, cortisone - it’s evolution - genetics), and am late to work or something.
Bodo
A very, very good listen for anyone interested in hearing stories from a man brought up to live non-violently is Arun Gandhi’s talk “My Education in the Path of Nonviolence” at the Stanford Aurora Forum (#9). There’s also a talk by the Dalai Lama on the same topic (#24), but IMHO, it’s not as interesting or pleasant to listen to.
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Instintively human beings undergo fight or flight in the face of danger or threat. But as higher-thinking organisms, we also have the power to empathize. A lot of what is missing in societies, communities, and homes where violence is a regular part of living, it’s the lack of empathy that is mainly to blame. I have found that violence stems from selfishness - you want to feel better, you want the person to feel worse, you feel scared, you want the other person to feel scared of you, you want to feel respected, you want the other person to respect you, you feel angry, you want the other person to pay for making you angry.
If people took the time to think about how other people felt and treat others the way they would want to be treated, violence would all together cease to exist.
You cannot stop anger or fear or a desire to feel powerful, but violence does not have to be a part of the equation.
If people thought what they were doing and put themselves in the shoes of their fellow human beings or creatures, they would quickly see that violence was not the answer.
Imani, very sage. I agree - violence is not the answer. But . . . violence happens . . . on many levels . . . not just physical (like war), but emotional and so on. I don’t like it. I try to control it. I try to be thoughtful. I would like to practice more meditation and relaxation to help me control it, but it happens . . . in my life . . . and that makes me sad 
Bodo
There is a big, BIG distinction between physical violence and the other forms of violence. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. I have been verbally “assualted” thousands of times, practically everyday I guess, and still it’s nothing compared to the relatively few times I have been physically assualted. Physical assualts really shake you up in a way that mere emotional/verbal “assualts” don’t. There is a world of difference. It’s the difference between being threatened to get beat up, and actually getting beaten up. Between being sexually harassed verbally and actually getting raped. I shouldn’t have to explain this. Mere anger and getting annoyed in traffic, that is not “violence”, real violence is a physical, concrete thing. There is a difference between anger and violence. Everybody gets angry, but most of us have the self-control to not resort to physical violence whenever we don’t get our way. Physical violence is the last resort of the emotional coward. He can’t get his way through reason, so he resorts to caveman tactics.
You don’t need to explain the differenace btwn physical violence and verbal violence to people who have experienced both. Having some fucker making a prolonged, serious attempt to run you over with his car is not the same as some neanderthal giving you the finger out the window. It just isn’t. If you think it is you’ve never had a a three hundred pound man in a sports car doing his best to mow you over in an empty school soccer field (lucky for me I’m apparenetly still a good duck and bobber when necessary and for a few moments at least had the tables turned - hunted had become the hunter sort of deal - and while I don’t know exactly what I intended to do with the brick and a bowie knife I rechieved from home, had I caught him I don’t imagine it would have been pleasant).
That is the fucking truth. Some jerk says shit to me, I can always ignore it. Some jerk shoves his fist in my face, I can’t ignore that can I. Like you say, big fucking difference.
I agree, one makes a fist when his/her ability to process his/her emotions runs dry. But I do not agree that there is a big difference between physical violence and verbal violence because to me it’s all the same. Anger is where violence comes from. Without anger there is no violence. So how can anger be separated from violence so easily?
This guy cuts you off along with six other people on the road and all of yous are swearing at him. One guy happens to be more angry and he gives the driver the finger. It escalates into a violent confrontation and said offensive driver gets punched in the face. The five others who got cut off are thinking he got what he deserved for being such an asshole driver. They may not throw a punch but they sure approve of it.
Some fanatics fly into the trade center and the whole country is angry. Not everyone starts attacking Muslims but when the army decides send troops to war, a whole lot of people support that violence because they are angry.
Anger feeds physical violence, it’s the flame burning inside that cause so much physical violence. All the same, all the same, no REAL difference.
bobepine
There is a real difference when you are the victim. In retrospect you can see that perhaps you shouldn’t do anything, or you should phone the police or whatever but for a brief span of time after somebody has actually assualted you or attempted to assault you it isn’t so easy.
I met two big assholes downtown one time and for whatever reason one of them punched me in the back of the head hard enough to knock me down. I basically bounced back up in full sprint, running 15,000 miles an hour I was, for about maybe three seconds, and then suddenly I wasn’t afraid, I was angry, and stopped and yelled every obscenity I could think of at them. Then I noticed how big they both were and further that they were coming for me. I have no doubt that they would have done serious violence if I hadn’t ran again. There was a big fire burning downtown that night and somehow I got the idea that I if could run them towards the fire I could maybe find some way to make them pay. Stupid plan. Anyway I was a really fast runner back then and I had to stop every twenty yards or so to egg them on. “Come on you stupid shit eaters. I’ll fucking kill you etc etc.” Finally, just as I was approaching the fire I found a nice thick stick about six feet long, picked it up and charged them. They were probably winded and scared from all the running or something I guess but anyway now they were running and I was chasing these two big fuckers down the street swinging a big stick and screaming like a maniac probably. They ran into a car park and I ran up the stairs with the intention of getting abvove the car as it left the parking lot. I was going to spear the car through the roof.
Next day I told my roomate about what happened and he said “Wow, that is a pretty amazing story. I doubt that it’s true” “OK” I said “I remember where I left the stick. Lets go, I’ll show it to you” We went downtown and there the stick was right where I left it only it wasn’t a stick at all, it was a crudely shaped and designed speer. Something some junky made as part of art rehabilitaion therapy I imagine.
I still get a charge out of remembering that night. Totally alive and thrilled to the bone.
Typical.
The world is full of people for whom real, life-threatening violence is a part of everyday life, simply by virtue of thier not being fortunate enough to have been born into the Euro-American middle class elite.
Which is part of why, I guess, we don’t see them posting much here.
“Have you ever had the shit beat out of you? If not, you haven’t developed the requisite character to interest me as a human being…”
-Bubba 2 Guns
Well said Chief, that’s some perspective worth paying attention to IMO.
Most of us posting here were brought up in pretty peaceful places. Most of us that is. Still, I see violence everyday.
Today it was only about thirty minutes after I got out of bed. I went to Mc do for a Mc Muffin, it was 1/4 past 9. A lady sat at a table but there was a jacket on that table. On his way back with his breakfast the man asked rudely “Did you not see the jacket? This is our table.” (He was with a lady friend)
The lady responded very agressively and they then went on for a solid 4 minutes just spewing insults at each other. The lady was the worse, she kept screaming at them as they finally walked away but she kept the table of four for herslef. 4 seats and only three people fighting. Go figure…
I was thinking about this thread at the time and I was thinking no one will convince me that this is not violence. And yes, I’ve had my face kicked in twice in my short life.
bob, you missed your calling, this shite doesn’t make me feel alive one bit. Makes me feel like I’m struggling to stay alive if anything. It makes it hard to breathe.
bobepine
It would put a shrink in my wrap these days too. My back is so fucked up it’s violence to turn my head. Still, I remember what it is like to be full of piss and I suspect that same feeling will always inspire a bit o the old rough and tumble amidst the young and dumb crowd. Just part of life I reckon.
Or as Irvine Welsh said in Marabou Stork Nightmares: “Swallow the fear and savour the buzz.”
I grew up in a house where violence was a weekly almost daily reality. I hate it.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]I grew up in a house where violence was a weekly almost daily reality. I hate it.
That sort of violence is another thing entirely. Sorry.
My violence stories are mostly pretty good fun actually. Must have been lucky so far. I never did much serious damage to anybody I don’t think and they never did to me. Probably could have quite easily turned out differently.
Except, if you recall from a few stories back, the guy with the car. That damaged me permanently I think. I don’t know how easily you can imagine what it is like to have an evil looking large man make a serious and prolonged effort to run you over with his car. It went on for a good few minutes or so and I actually had a chance to look in his eyes as he was trying to kill me. It’s not something you forget.
[b]bob wrote in two seperate posts:
It would put a shrink in my wrap these days too.
I actually had a chance to look in his eyes as he was trying to kill me. It’s not something you forget.[/b]
Come to think of it, does one really need to be beaten up to understand violence, to be enlightened? I’m guessing coming close to physical violence is plenty of a hint that whatever type of violence may, in the end, buy you broken ribs or a body bag.
While HG’s experience with violence may be characterized as “different”, it’s violence nonetheless and the question is “why?”
I don’t know enough about HG to tell what kind of violence he’s been through in his family and frankly I don’t need to know. His feelings toward violence are enough. What I can tell you though, bob, is that the kind of violence that sometimes happened in my family was very similar to what would have happened to you if you got caught by the two big guys you were threatening to kill… OK maybe not that bad but close.
bobepine
I would not have “got caught” by the two big guys I was threatening to kill because they were running away from me. Not that it matters much. If I had caught them they still would have kicked my head in; unless of course when I had caught them they were too winded to move. It’s a good way to fight large people. Run them around till they are about to drop and then go back and pick them off at your leisure.
I wouldn’t have killed them either. May have given them the old spear upside the face though. After all one of them had just punched me in the back of the head for no reason at all and I was still feeling a bit emotional about it…
Pffft…
Sorry, I farted.
Sorry, didn’t mean to be so melodramatic. Simple domestic violence. Ugly stuff.
HG
[b][quote=“bob”]After all one of them had just punched me in the back of the head for no reason at all and I was still feeling a bit emotional about it…
Pffft…
Sorry, I farted.[/quote][/b]
Not all saints bob. My comments were not judgemental. I have had my own feathers ruffled and I ruffled others very much in the same way as you have in this situation. Regardless who started it. Twice I did not get away with it though.
I was younger then and so were you. As we get older, these situations seem to thankfully be fewer and farther appart. For me anyways.
bobepine