Why your great grandchildren will thank you for being a hippie

The hippies were right. Pesticides are a bad trip. :skull_and_crossbones:

(includes 17:40 audio clip)

This is not entirely new information. Some people exposed to chemical weapons have passed the resulting diseases on to their children and even grandchildren (this is what I was getting at in the Jordan Peterson thread, though I don’t know if that’s what happened to JP).

He’s found the effects of DDT exposure can be passed down four generations in rodents, but said based on other studies with different animals, and with different toxic chemicals, the effects could be expected to last many more generations, and may, in fact, be permanent.

Given the effects he and other scientists have seen, Skinner said our current and ancestral exposures — to DDT and many other toxic synthetic chemicals we’ve been exposed to over the years — could be behind the rise in chronic diseases around the world today.

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And the liberals, and the Unitarians, and the tree-huggers. :slight_smile:

And Joni Mitchell:

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Well, at least Joni. :+1:

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I think it was around 1970, and I was in a room with a bunch of Unitarians, and one or more of them (could have even been the minister) were talking about how DDT weakens the egg shells of birds.

I think that’s where I first heard about why DDT was a concern.

Or that’s how I remember it. :idunno:

Edited to add: I don’t know how it is now, but back then there were almost certainly liberals and tree-huggers among the Unitarians (and maybe even some hippies).

But what you posted is new stuff to me. I don’t recall hearing or reading about DDT’s effect on human health.

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They had probably read the book Silent Spring. There was some controversy later about how accurate it was, and after a few decades some people called banning DDT one of the worst ever decisions because zillions of humans supposedly died from malaria because of the ban, or something. But I’ll still vote with the hippies on this one.

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I’m not saying Rachel Carson’s book didn’t have an influence, but I think this is what got Louisiana’s attention:

Wikipedia, “Brown Pelican,” “Relationship with Humans”

Some people were making that argument back in 1970:

John Leighty (UPI), “Bucking the Tide to Ban It: DDT Advocates Make A Last​-Ditch Defense,” Shreveport [Louisiana] Times, August 20, 1970 (You can read the slightly-gnarled optical-character-recognition version for free.)

For the record, I was a sixteen-year-old, left-leaning wannabe hippie when that article came out. I’m pretty sure that I didn’t read that particular article back then, and I don’t remember reading about the pro-DDT argument at the time.

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Rachel Carson and the people who spoke out against DDT called for its banning in agriculture, as it was killing both wildlife and beneficial insects. Indiscriminate use was also causing rapid development of resistance in malarial mosquitoes. It is still used in countries where malaria is widespread, being directly applied to walls and mosquito nets; the ban on agricultural use has increased its effectiveness (until, finally, better means are being developed.)

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We now live in such a toxic soup of chemicals that it’d be completely impossible to figure out which ones are harming us, and in what ways, so nobody even really makes the effort anymore. Novel pesticides and herbicides are basically just assumed safe. The risk of poorly-understood harms to the ecosystem and to us is just one aspect of the argument - the more important part, which is rarely mentioned, is that they don’t even work as advertised. Over the long term, they cause farmers endless trouble.

Hence my frequent rants about human hubris and the misuse of technology.

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The interesting thing is that basic scientific methodology also proves this. They dont need hippies and judgemnet. But scientists are for hire now and pepple tend to confuse science with sonething scientists say assuming they are one in the same.

Golden rule, everyone is bias and only real science sheds that bias. Very very few people are truly scientific and without such bias, but we should all strive to be more that way.

The amiunt of unknown random contamination in our world is astonishing.

I remember listenin to neil degrass tyson about something . His point was that if our species has the means to colonize mars, why dint we fix earth first ? In reality the answer isnt even no one cares. Its that starting over may very well be easier.

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There are now far too many scientists today who have more talent for PR than for science, and a very low level of scientific literacy in the population at large. As a result - as you said - most people think science is just “something scientists say”. Virtually nobody - including a lot of career scientists - don’t really understand the scientific method, or have the temperament for it. A career which basically revolves around proving yourself wrong (or being proved wrong by others) is not something the average ego can cope with.

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This commonly seen occurance is incredibly depressing :frowning: It is saddening to see, even in the everyday life, how people tend to ostracize others for simply asking, what used to be common sense, questions. It does seem we are on a downward cycle culturally, hopefully we will smarten up soon and learn to stimulate thought, curiosity and testing theories once again. It will be a fight. If we fight hard now, we can hope our grandchildren can benefit from the upswing.

well, don’t give them cell phones and video games for a start. and then make them play outside, in the creeks and forests. then you’ll have a much better crop of inquisitive, active, grounded teenagers.

Wait, that sounds Exactly like what hippie parents are already doing…

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Yup totallyagree. But thats where ghost, snakes and perverts are waiting, dontcha know. Its sad to see city kids that dont have parents take them outside and explore :frowning:

Raising a generation that by 30 years old still cant figure out a broom.

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I think you guys are being far too pessimistic as always. A bunch of other pesticides have been banned and restricted in the EU and worldwide . The ability to detect these chemicals had also increased dramatically. So much so that extremely low levels of few parts per billion are banned from our food supplies.
I think with the development of robots we will be able to use them for weeding and reduce pesticide use even further .

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I’m sure i read that in a Larry Niven novel somewhere

If only we could live in such a perfect haven as the EU hehe.

Even there, food problems still happen. Seems many ecoli deaths over the years are in the west.

Regardless. i have hired numerous full grown adults that need me to hold their hands through the simplest of tasks this is getting far more common. Its not being pessimistic so much as just observant and wanting to discuss so we can turn this trend around. I for one am.quite worried about this. Everytime now in hospitals i try and find.ololder doctors as the youngs ones are far more likely to not even touch you and just key in stuff on the computer. Mechanics now,t he same. not much experience and really dumb answers for not being able to fix something. etc etc. This also doesnt seem to be a taiwan phenomenon.

Have you noticed anything similar where you live? Community, work, professionals, servers, 711, gas station etc. Seems really noticeable where i am.

Forgot to mention. robots already are reducing sprays and such. From nearly fully automated huge fields globally. They plaow, disc, fertilize, seed, insert irrigation etc etc. all driverless. Gps tractors. in taiwan where farms are small, they are already using drones to spot spray.

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Kids these days! I think Socrates was right in blaming it on the invention of writing-

"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem [275b] to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise.

" =Phaedra

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This is so true, though one cannot deny the benefits of “writing”, aka record keeping. Both beneficial and negative. Either way, if we chiose to liken our speies to something of an intelligent nature, surely we cannot blame record keeping for our laziness…that kind of sums up many of our species’ cultures right there, doesnt it.

This reminds me of certain crappy countries where little kids are regimented into miserable breezeblock buildings, sat down in front of a blackboard, and force-fed facts from books that have no relevance to their everyday lives and which they barely even understand. Then they graduate to a much-coveted job as a policeman or government official, where the bulk of their work involves sleeping and collecting bribes.

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