I think I understand the Open Work Permit well. If you have an OWP (based on marriage at least) you can do any work a Taiwanese person could do, provided you have the qualifications needed for the job.
But I still hear that you need a degree to teach English. Is this just people being misinformed because the MOE requires a degree to issue a work permit (in which case, if you had an OWP you wouldn’t need a degree)? Or is there a separate regulation that says to teach English you must have a degree (ie even Taiwanese who want to teach English mush have a degree). I know there’s certain qualifications required to teach (at least in higher levels) in the public school system, but what about private schools, buxibans and kindergartens?
[quote=“Sir Donald Bradman”]I think I understand the Open Work Permit well. If you have an OWP (based on marriage at least) you can do any work a Taiwanese person could do, provided you have the qualifications needed for the job.
But I still hear that you need a degree to teach English. Is this just people being misinformed because the MOE requires a degree to issue a work permit (in which case, if you had an OWP you wouldn’t need a degree)? Or is there a separate regulation that says to teach English you must have a degree (ie even Taiwanese who want to teach English mush have a degree). I know there’s certain qualifications required to teach (at least in higher levels) in the public school system, but what about private schools, buxibans and kindergartens?
Anyone know?
Brian[/quote]
At a guess I think it would be buyer beware - if the people believe you can do the job then you can do it - Just what I think, I am not sure.
[quote=“Sir Donald Bradman”]I think I understand the Open Work Permit well. If you have an OWP (based on marriage at least) you can do any work a Taiwanese person could do, provided you have the qualifications needed for the job.
But I still hear that you need a degree to teach English. Is this just people being misinformed because the MOE requires a degree to issue a work permit (in which case, if you had an OWP you wouldn’t need a degree)? Or is there a separate regulation that says to teach English you must have a degree (ie even Taiwanese who want to teach English mush have a degree). I know there’s certain qualifications required to teach (at least in higher levels) in the public school system, but what about private schools, buxibans and kindergartens? Anyone know? Brian[/quote]
Brian, the buxibans and numerous gov’t officials will tell you that you need a degree to teach under a marriage-based Open Work Permit, but they’re wrong. They just aren’t familiar enough with the stipulations and conditions of the OWP. Hartzell has the documentation (official letters from the legislative assembly) that outline this. Until Taiwanese people are required to have a degree to teach, degree-less OWP foreigners are safe. You might have to jump through several hoops to prove this, though…
Does that mean that the only person that you need to convince to give you the job is the employer. Do you still need to go through government channels to get a cram school English teaching position?
Or is it good enough that the boss will give you the job?
I always thought that OPEN meant OPEN - but hell this is Taiwan right!
Sorry about the double post but I wanted to make sure that this got read.
I will be getting an OWP this year. At the moment my ARC is based on employment. When I change my ARC to being based on marriage do I need to leave the country or not?
Boss Hogg, I know the head of the Foreign Affairs Police here in Tainan County … over lunch with him sometime in the future, I’ll ask your question and any other things you may want to know just for your reference. Drop me a line if you want.
It’s great to have good guanxi, but remember that sometimes even the cops aren’t familiar with all of the new laws, nevermind how those laws are to be interpreted. (And Tainan County isn’t exactly in the centre of things…) But hey, maybe your guy is exceptionally well-informed. The Ministry of Education is often two steps beind the times as well. One thing that usually sorts them out is documentation from the Legislative Assembly. If all else fails, sic Hartzell on 'em.
My wife just got off the phone with the Ministry of Education in Kaohsiung. They said that I still needed to go through all the crap (health check, issuing new visa) if I want to teach even though I already have an OWP (she explained what was posted above). My wife asked if I could just have them put their stamp of approval on my 4 year degree (which is already translated) but their response was, “he needs a health check”.
FYI, my wife had called them the day before so they had the chance to look into the matter, they had called her back once they had their information.
I think that the Education Department would not be too clear about the laws regarding an OWP. I would bet that they are just throwing out an answer but don’t really have a real answer. The fact is that if you have an OWP you can have any form of legal employment in Taiwan that a Taiwanese can have, with certain minimum salary restrictions, with the same conditions that Taiwanese have. If that is the case then a Taiwanese does not need a health check to teach English here and neither does a foreigner with a JFRV (that needs a med check to get one). Perhaps if they were going to appoint you to teach in a government school then they could request a health check.
In the future the Ministry of Education will not be handling the issuing of work permits for foreign teachers in Taiwan, this will be the resposibility of the CLA.
The simple fact of the matter with the Taiwanese government is that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing and if you ask different departments the same question you will get a lot of bullshit to save face rather than saying “I don’t know” until you find out the truth. Sad but true.
What counts is the documentation from the Legistlative Assembly.
[quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Sir Donald Bradman”]I think I understand the Open Work Permit well. If you have an OWP (based on marriage at least) you can do any work a Taiwanese person could do, provided you have the qualifications needed for the job.
But I still hear that you need a degree to teach English. Is this just people being misinformed because the MOE requires a degree to issue a work permit (in which case, if you had an OWP you wouldn’t need a degree)? Or is there a separate regulation that says to teach English you must have a degree (ie even Taiwanese who want to teach English mush have a degree). I know there’s certain qualifications required to teach (at least in higher levels) in the public school system, but what about private schools, buxibans and kindergartens? Anyone know? Brian[/quote]
Brian, the buxibans and numerous gov’t officials will tell you that you need a degree to teach under a marriage-based Open Work Permit, but they’re wrong. They just aren’t familiar enough with the stipulations and conditions of the OWP. Hartzell has the documentation (official letters from the legislative assembly) that outline this. Until Taiwanese people are required to have a degree to teach, degree-less OWP foreigners are safe. You might have to jump through several hoops to prove this, though…[/quote]
[quote=“Maoman”]
Brian, the buxibans and numerous gov’t officials will tell you that you need a degree to teach under a marriage-based Open Work Permit, but they’re wrong. They just aren’t familiar enough with the stipulations and conditions of the OWP. Hartzell has the documentation (official letters from the legislative assembly) that outline this. Until Taiwanese people are required to have a degree to teach, degree-less OWP foreigners are safe. You might have to jump through several hoops to prove this, though…[/quote]
Maoman: When we went to the meeting at the LY arranged by Hartzell last month, the MOE told us that foreigners still have to get a permit to teach in Buxibans even if they have OWPs. We went around and around with them over the point that the law clearly intends that foreigners with the OWP should be subject to the same requirements or lack thereof as a Taiwanese person. The MOE disagreed, saying that local jurisdictions have the right to impose requirements on requirements for Buxiban teachers. I think that legally they are wrong, but in practice Kaohsiung requires foreign teachers to have degrees to teach in Buxibans even though Taiwanese teachers do not have to have degrees. The situation in other counties may be different.
I personally think the MOEs position is just plain unfair and also legally unfounded. Someone will have to file an administrative appeal to straighten this out.
Ok, but what would happen to someone with an OWP who was teaching without a permit to teach? A warning? A fine? The MOE can’t remove you from the country for that, surely!
I will probably just get my approval from the MOE stamped for continuation then, just to be on the safe side and get my OWP too.
I can’t believe that they could be such bastards! MOE sucks! Write your own laws eh!
Oh, if you happen to be from the MOE - just kidding I love you all at the MOE - if you get an application from Boss Hogg just rubber stamp it OK!
