What do you guys think about the woman who was chased down by the cops while displaying the flag, not the DPP flag but the ROC flag.
Personally, I think this is a violation to the peoples rights, and the KMT government is starting to look a lot like it once was during the martial law period.
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[quote]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2008/11/04/2003427713
Barbed wire at key intersections, demonstrators manhandled by police without cause, a young womanâs finger broken as police pried a Tibetan flag from her hands and arrested her â this is the stuff of news in China, not Taiwan.[/quote]
I think if one is part of an unauthorized public protest that blocks traffic, and whose supporters pushed down a foriegn dignitary, donât be suprised if the local police treats you a little rough.
As for Tibet. Everyone ROC citizen knows Tibet is part of ROC, itâs on the official map, just like Taiwan.
During the martial law era, she wouldâve been arrested and sent to Green Island.
The problem is not the flag, but that those people want to shout slogans.
BTW, itâs pretty hypocritical for a DPP supporter to wave ROC flags, since they oppose the ROC as much as the commies do.
At a DPP sit-in, veteran independence activist Huang Chao-tang said so much, so heâs at least more consistent than the average protester.
I think the problem is not that they want to protest. It is that they have a history of getting physical with the foriegn dignitaries.
If they just sat on the corner, not blocking traffic, peacefully chanting below 100db. No one would bother them.
But when one of them nut cases demostrate they have no problem pushing foreign dignitaries to the ground and mobbing their car, the local authorities have no choice but to treat all the protestors as potential nut cases.
[quote=âac_dropoutâ][quote]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2008/11/04/2003427713
Barbed wire at key intersections, demonstrators manhandled by police without cause, a young womanâs finger broken as police pried a Tibetan flag from her hands and arrested her â this is the stuff of news in China, not Taiwan.[/quote]
I think if one is part of an unauthorized public protest that blocks traffic, and whose supporters pushed down a foreign dignitary, donât be suprised if the local police treats you a little rough.
As for Tibet. Everyone ROC citizen knows Tibet is part of ROC, itâs on the official map, just like Taiwan.[/quote]
eh Tibet is part of Taiwan?! then I guess you can also say the Mainland is also part of ROC heheâŚyea that needs to be changedâŚ
Canât really blame the people for being mad and expressing it, it only shows how angry they are. Their concerns and worries should be addressed accordingly if president MA wants things to go smoothly.
I have no problem if people want to express their opinions in a calm public manner. But once you start pushing foreign dignitaries around, I expect the local police to suspend that individual civil liberties for the greater good of a civil society. If one resists or tries to avoid arrest, then one has one has no to blame but one self if they get hurt.
That is the fundimental issue of who controls what of the former ROC territories. If one ignores this fundimental fact of the ROC v PRC disagreement, then I fear the events which have been transpiring in the last week are a complete loss. Thank goodness there are still some in the ROC that actually spends time on trying to resolve the Strait Issue, instead of fabricating silliness to get the uneducated public all worked up.
[quote=âac_dropoutâ]I have no problem if people want to express their opinions in a calm public manner. But once you start pushing foreign dignitaries around, I expect the local police to suspend that individual civil liberties for the greater good of a civil society. If one resists or tries to avoid arrest, then one has one has no to blame but one self if they get hurt.
That is the fundimental issue of who controls what of the former ROC territories. If one ignores this fundimental fact of the ROC v PRC disagreement, then I fear the events which have been transpiring in the last week are a complete loss. Thank goodness there are still some in the ROC that actually spends time on trying to resolve the Strait Issue, instead of fabricating silliness to get the uneducated public all worked up.[/quote]
I was talking about the protest near the Hotel. not the incident where the guy was attacked by the shrine. Though I support the cause, however, attacking a defenseless old man is kinda lowâŚ
But you must agree, the fact that a woman was chased down by the police for displaying the flag for the country, is messed up. While it is true that the DPP does not really favor the flag for the ROC, nonetheless it IS the countryâs flag and represents our sovereign country. I believe the purpose of it was to let chinese representative be aware of our sovereignty, and that is why they choose to use the flag of the country rather than their own flag.
Back to the point, what kind of country where it does not allow a person to display the flag of their own country in public?
She wasnât hurting anyone but the âfeelingsâ of the âchinese ::cough cough:: compatriotsâ
If the authorities put a ban on the ROC flag at the hotel, then there is no reason why a protestor shouldnât give up their âprotestâ ROC flag to the ROC authorities when they ask.
Unless you believe it is proper behavior for a protestor to run away from the authority with a contraband item, adding to the general atmosphere of chaos in the area.
In the larger context one can only ask do these people really want to escalate tension surrounding the Strait Issue? If so to what end?
TI cannot be achieved through these methods. They can only be achieved through calm and delibrate negotiations with the PRC.
Yes Iâm drunk (again) but since the election Iâve just been waiting around (in, on, about Taiwan) to see
if there IS another election.
Then ac scores a âtripleâ in one line;
âTI cannot be achieved through these methods. They can only be achieved through calm and delibrate negotiations with the PRC.â
Basic grammar has âTIâ as achieved singular in sentence one and âtheyâ as achieved plural in sentence two.
OK just a spelling error in the second sentence - but the whole second sentence?
Makes an oxymoron look like a mouse turd on a pizza with everything!
âthe former ROC territories.â
Yo broâ ! (Isnât that what you Americans say?)
What does it mean?
Wait a minute, I donât know no Chinese. ( as in âWe donât need no badges!â )
Donât associate what I donât know with me!
Yes this is your dog and pony show and Iâm not paying admission, but
I can make enough of an ass of myself by myself, thanks.
yes yes this headband demarcation is some puerile attempt at humour I have to guess.
So what I assume to be Mandarin chopstick scrawl is either a lame attempt to separate
the wheat from the chaff or ⌠what?
It is such a shame that someone started a topic about an issue that is very serious and it is then followed by a bunch of idiotic comments. I really hope people donât rely on the Taiwan Politics forum for informing themselves about Taiwan Politics.
Have a look at todayâs Taipei Times, second page.
I swear that dog is smiling.
(Wix, we better smile rather than cry⌠and A/C started it!)
[quote=âac_dropoutâ]If the authorities put a ban on the ROC flag at the hotel, then there is no reason why a protestor shouldnât give up their âprotestâ ROC flag to the ROC authorities when they ask.
Unless you believe it is proper behavior for a protestor to run away from the authority with a contraband item, adding to the general atmosphere of chaos in the area.
In the larger context one can only ask do these people really want to escalate tension surrounding the Strait Issue? If so to what end?
TI cannot be achieved through these methods. They can only be achieved through calm and delibrate negotiations with the PRC.[/quote]
Your missing the point ac
MAKING THE NATIONAL FLAG A CONTRABAND and persecuting people for showing their patriotism is wrong in so many ways. Not to mention it makes Taiwan looked as if we gave up on our dignity and kow towed to the CCP. Whatever happen to the strong and prideful Taiwanese?
Before we discuss the matter any further, could you provide a link to show that such and incident actually happened?
If theyâre going to ban protestors for being too noisy, can they please come and ban the idiots who drive past with the trucks blaring advertisements? How about the local school (several blocks away) that blasts its school assemblies several mornings each week at about 8:00am?
what about garbage trucksâŚ
I swear to you there was a noise measuring machine yesterday in ZhongShang North Road.
Before we discuss the matter any further, could you provide a link to show that such and incident actually happened?[/quote]
[quote=âlincolnunitâ][quote=âac_dropoutâ]If the authorities put a ban on the ROC flag at the hotel, then there is no reason why a protestor shouldnât give up their âprotestâ ROC flag to the ROC authorities when they ask.
Unless you believe it is proper behavior for a protestor to run away from the authority with a contraband item, adding to the general atmosphere of chaos in the area.
In the larger context one can only ask do these people really want to escalate tension surrounding the Strait Issue? If so to what end?
TI cannot be achieved through these methods. They can only be achieved through calm and delibrate negotiations with the PRC.[/quote]
Your missing the point ac
MAKING THE NATIONAL FLAG A CONTRABAND and persecuting people for showing their patriotism is wrong in so many ways. Not to mention it makes Taiwan looked as if we gave up on our dignity and kow towed to the CCP. Whatever happen to the strong and prideful Taiwanese?[/quote]
But the people who had their ROC flag confiscated where all DPP supporters with DPP flags and âTaiwan Nationâ banners. Given that the âTaiwan Nationâ and ROC are idealogically mutually exclusive in terms of politics in Taiwan. Any average Taiwanese cop would know this group might contain that one nut that would try to get physical with a foriegn envoy.
Just like if there was an average Taiwanese that hated foreigners and publicly bullied foriegners in Taiwan while waving a US flag. I would find it difficult to believe the USA would be insulted if the cop took away that symbol from the xenophobe.
That would be like me going to Tainan with a DPP flag, intimidating DPP officials in public, and when they take away the flag, claiming they didnât love the party anymore.
That is the conflicting message the greens are putting out there, after decades of disrespecting the ROC symbols, ideals, and framework. Is the average Taiwanese suppose to believe that the return of white terror is occurring because the few green supporters were prevented from marching, while the mass majority of demonstrators were left alone.
I think what these incidents really show is that the average Taiwanese are jaded to the constant cry of crisis by the greens. Eventually the DPP is going to have to evolve into a beaucratic party that a mature country needs, and move away from it revolutionary and iconoclast roots.
Itâs a double irony that the KMT, who is supposed to be representing and supporting the ROC is suppressing its own flag and symbol and the DPP, who views the ROC as an imposition of China, is now upset it canât use the ROC flag against China.
Something this convoluted is something that could only happen in Taiwan or China.
It strikes me more as essentially the DPP are anti-China. In the absence of the real China, the KMT is a good proxy. When the real China shows up, you grab the ROC flag.
Personally, I find it a bit of a disgrace that even the KMT would suppress the national flag for these bozos from across the straits. The Chinese, âstreetâ, sure got a kick out of it.