In light of recent reports of one single ob-gyn in Taipei having a rate of 10 out of 11 births being boys, while a Changhua County clinic has a 9-out-of-10 male birth record, I’m having a bit of a difficult time coming to terms with the “woman’s right to choose” angle.
Holy cow! Did you read that somewhere or was it on the news?
Holy cow! Did you read that somewhere or was it on the news?[/quote]
Its in the news here right now. The Department of Health is “investigating” though. Phew! That makes me thankful. Not.
They’re calling it “screening fetuses,” and are giving me a bit of gyp about calling it infanticide. But from where I’m standing right now, I can’t really see too much of a distinction. People are simply taking a pill for an abortion rather than throwing the newborn down a well.
But maybe I’m missing something. Its a little depressing.
Saw that as well. Didn’t see how many, in total, were involved. 9/10, for a total of ten, or fifty, or two-hundred?
Not infanticide. Maybe gendercide. The Economist recently did a long piece on this. More common where folks have money, surprisingly.
[quote=“sandman”]In light of recent reports of one single ob-gyn in Taipei having a rate of 10 out of 11 births being boys, while a Changhua County clinic has a 9-out-of-10 male birth record, I’m having a bit of a difficult time coming to terms with the “woman’s right to choose” angle.[/quote]Oh yeah, that’s correct. In fact, I will look through my office files tomorrow and try to find a very very interesting article which would complement your post nicely.
It’s an article from a few years back regarding Taiwan’s falling fertility rate and how the current birth rate won’t be able to support a fast growing older society and possible corrective actions that Taiwan could take to combat it. The part of the article that caught my attention, but WASN’T a major theme or even a focal point of the article was that Taiwan aborts more children than are born on an annual basis! I don’t have the article with me right now, but it was something like this, (note; these numbers are just for example and not an actual representation of the article) “The previous two years had a reported average of 15,000 newborns per year in contrast with 18,000 abortions per year”. So, that’s probably where your “right to choose” statistics come in. Taiwan chooses to have 15,000 new born baby boys every year and chooses to abort 18,000 female babies every year.
I know a woman who made this “choice” two years ago. She was pregnant and already had two daughters. When she found out the baby she was carrying was going to be another girl, she aborted it. I asked her why and she said, “Because girls are more expensive and I can’t afford to have another girl”. Typical Taiwanese lie because the last time I checked, raising boys wasn’t necessarily cheaper than raising girls. But, all is good now. She got pregnant again and after verifying the sex of the baby ahead of time, she gave birth to a healthy baby boy and now she and the rest of the family can ignore their two worthless daughters. :loco:
I’m sorry to say this, but what a SICK society. 
Just found an article about this:
Could be worse. Isn’t the male/female ratio in China 118/100? Now, that’s some serious peasantry.
I’m going to give my gorgeous daughter a big cuddle.
Is it only the women who’re choosing this? What’s the father’s role in this decision?
I had a student once, and I mean ONCE, who hated her daughter. This woman was young herself and she liked to socialize. Her mother was raising her daughter, because no one in her husband’s family was interested in her, and she only saw the kid once a month at most–and complained that she had to see her then. This woman did not work. She shoped and sipped latte. When I asked her if she missed her daughter, she said, “No! I can’t stand her. When I visit her, she acts like she doesn’t even know me, and because of her, now I have to have another baby! My mother has her now because she told me it’s bad karma to have an abortion, so she has to raise her. I will not have another girl.”
I really couldn’t stand her.
And a woman’s right to choose isn’t about choosing to have a girl or a boy: a woman’s right to choose is about choosing to have a BABY or choosing not to have a BABY. And the right to this choice comes in when the pregnancy is the result of rape, or when the pregnancy may force a woman to choose the life of her baby over her own life, or something dire like this. When a full grown woman has consentual sex with a man, she has the right to choose to use birth control. After that, if she has chosen to risk conception, and if her pregnancy is healthy, then she’s made all the choices available to her already.
When I was pregnant, there were more abortions preformed at the Dr.'s clinic than checkups–often with the baby’s father sitting outside in the waiting area insisting that it be done. This was particularly sad to me because I have this serious hang up with the “woman’s right to choose” thing because a father who whants his child has no right to intervene if the woman has chosen otherwise. In the case of an unmaried couple, why couldn’t the father chose to raise the baby alone? But he has no chance, because the woman can’t be forced to carry the child if she chooses not to. Yet, those women at the clinic were allowing the fathers to choose to end the lives of babies that some of them clearly wanted.
I know that, Housecat! But I’ve never been strong on suppressing hyperbole. 
Its just a thing I read that makes me very sad indeed. Excuse me. I need to go to Facebook and have a look at Jaboney’s and maoman’s mudbloods to restore myself.
You haven’t met many Taiwanese couples, eh? The man does what he’s told
Seriously, though, it’s often the father’s parents who push this (to carry on the family name - how fucked-up is that, in a country where everyone carries the same half-dozen surnames). I’ve heard a few firsthand accounts.
You can call it ‘culture’ if you want … it’s still nasty. OTOH it may have a positive outcome. Recent research suggests that even a slight gender imbalance creates a large power shift towards the ‘scarce’ sex; in this case, women will be able to pick and choose to their exact specifications (not sure if it’s a good idea to give Taiwanese women power like that, but that’s another thread). The result should be a genetically-healthier population. The downside is that there will be a lot of ugly, socially-inadequate men who won’t be getting any, and may find other outlets for their hormones (causing various forms of trouble). China is already experiencing something like that.
You haven’t met many Taiwanese couples, eh? The man does what he’s told
Seriously, though, it’s often the father’s parents who push this (to carry on the family name - how fucked-up is that, in a country where everyone carries the same half-dozen surnames). I’ve heard a few firsthand accounts.
You can call it ‘culture’ if you want … it’s still nasty. OTOH it may have a positive outcome. Recent research suggests that even a slight gender imbalance creates a large power shift towards the ‘scarce’ sex; in this case, women will be able to pick and choose to their exact specifications (not sure if it’s a good idea to give Taiwanese women power like that, but that’s another thread). The result should be a genetically-healthier population. The downside is that there will be a lot of ugly, socially-inadequate men who won’t be getting any, and may find other outlets for their hormones (causing various forms of trouble). China is already experiencing something like that.[/quote]
It should also cause an even bigger increase in foreign brides.
I know that, Housecat! But I’ve never been strong on suppressing hyperbole. Its just a thing I read that makes me very sad indeed. Excuse me. I need to go to Facebook and have a look at Jaboney’s and maoman’s mudbloods to restore myself.[/quote]
I didn’t think you didn’t understand, Sandy. This is just something that really disgusts me, too. Gender selective abortion. The whole idea of a girl being a “guest” in her parent’s house. Plus, in an unrelated aside, I read tonight of two widows who murdered their newlywed Muslim daughters for–gasp–marrying Hindi men.
It’s hard out there for a girl.
[quote=“Indiana”][quote=“finley”]
It should also cause an even bigger increase in foreign brides.[/quote][/quote]only if the economy holds up.
Not everybody does this, far from it. While undoubtedly some of these abortions are due to sex selection a lot are due to young unmarried women getting pregnant (Taiwanese and contraception don’t mix) and others due to economic circumstances. It’s obvious that the couples went to those clinics BECAUSE they are known to do sex screening, you can’t draw a line from that to the whole population.
Abortion is more often than not something wealthy people do.
[quote=“finley”]
cent research suggests that even a slight gender imbalance creates a large power shift towards the ‘scarce’ sex; in this case, women will be able to pick and choose to their exact specifications (not sure if it’s a good idea to give Taiwanese women power like that, but that’s another thread). The result should be a genetically-healthier population. The downside is that there will be a lot of ugly, socially-inadequate men who won’t be getting any, and may find other outlets for their hormones (causing various forms of trouble). China is already experiencing something like that.[/quote]
I have a few girls that I was friends with from China and you are right about them being picky now. The people are not thinking ahead to who is going to date their boys later but I’m sure that isn’t their priority, the priority being having a boy that will take care of them into old age, when in reality the girls would probably do a better job of that later on.
I personally believe that is the reason behind the PRC’s government always trying to create a rally point to get the populace upset (Japan islands, Taiwan, etc) so that the men that aren’t getting any can divert their attention away from their blue balls to some other distraction so that they don’t turn their frustration toward the government itself for being the cause of the problem.
Never thought of that, but sounds entirely possible. If you don’t want a bunch of stone-throwing hormonal teenagers directing their horniness into bringing down the government … find them an external enemy.
Please come to India guys. Only recently my aunt was telling me that in villages, where there is no morsel of food, they walk miles and miles to collect water, there are services where men carry portable or smallish machines (ultrasound?) so that gender can be determined. She was irritated, and when I told her that if it were not for technology, what is now foeticide, would be and was in the past infanticide, she was just didn’t want to talk about it.
My daughter’s best friend’s mom is in her 18th week of pregnancy. The doc here, at a totally reputable, rich man’s hospital told her, that she should get an Ultrasound next week, or they would not perform an abortion after the 20th week. She was shell shocked, she never once hinted that she wanted to know the gender of the baby, but coz she already has a daughter, it is assumed, she is dying for a son. :loco: The tragedy is, that the educamated classes still want boys. Why?? Coz both parents are working now and the boys are ‘easily cared for’. :loco: To leave a girl with a babysitter you worry about a gazillion things, with boys its easier. If only they knew 
but whatever!