Here’s a challenge for y’all - it’s one of the “hua” words:
科學化 (ke1 xue2 hua4)
“scientificization” doesn’t quite cut it!
[quote=“Chris”]…it’s one of the “hua” words:
科學化 (ke1 xue2 hua4)[/quote]Interesting stuff. I’m several billion zillion levels below you in Chinese ability, but I’ve just started to notice these “hua” words, such as the one on 24hr ATMs – fuhua or fuwuhua or whatever it is. Can’t remember now. Anyway, the dictionary gives “transformation” and “-ize” for the 化, but that’s obviously only part of the story.
to make (more) scientific; to do more scientifically
Yes. But in a parallel construction, like “automation, globalization, liberalization and making things more scientific” it doesn’t quite work! 
The solution is to scrap the parallelism in English and rewrite the sentence.
(Not that I’m asking this question for a translation project or anything like that. It’s just that I’ve come across such a situation before.)
More challenges:
安親班 (an1 qin1 ban1) [Is there even an equivalent of such an institution in the West?]
業者 (ye4 zhe)
We could make a game of it, challenging each other on Chinese vocab!
業者 (ye4 zhe) is just “businessman” or businessperson, no? ABCC gives ‘businessman’.
安親班 (an1 qin1 ban1) is just an “after-school childcare center”, no?
[quote=“Dragonbones”]業者 (ye4 zhe) is just “businessman” or businessperson, no? ABCC gives ‘businessman’.
安親班 (an1 qin1 ban1) is just an “after-schol childcare center”, no?[/quote]
This is a cool thread, Chris and DB, and I like your “solution” to the 化 question you posed earlier. It is easy to get in formulaic ruts in translation and we need little reminders like this to keep ourselves thinking freshly.
In most contexts 業者 refers to parallel (competitor) enterprises within an industry, but it can also sometimes refer to individuals. Clearly, different contexts require different translations (and no doubt you’ve got some nifty ones up your sleeve which you’ll share with us after seeing ours?).
Some that I’ve used:
enterprises (sufficient in many contexts); enterprises in the (given) industry
industry insiders (informal, in a journalistic context - might be individuals or groups)
industry members
competitors (since this is basically what enterprises within an industry are)
業者 essentially means “people in the industry”. The way I express it, of course, depends on the context. Sometimes I use “competitors” if it works in the context. If it’s a certain industry, I might just use the profession: “fishermen”, “financiers”, “insurers”, “manufacturers”. Or, as DB suggests, “businessmen”, or “entrepreneur” if it fits.
A related one is “同業”, which I would treat as “fellow insurers”, “fellow stonecutters”, etc. The word “competitors” can also be used if the context allows it.
安親班 is like a daycare center, but it’s for kids old enough to go to school but young enough to still require adult supervision. It’s a place for them to go after school while their parents work into the evening. As I understand it, in the US, daycare centers are for children who have not yet reached school age. I don’t know if there is an equivalent of an anqinban in the US.
It’s good to get opther people’s perspectives on these troublesome words.
Anyone got any other words they’d like to put up for the challenge?
Here’s one: 宗周 zong1zhou1
Hmm…fom Google, “tsung chou” or “zongzhou” bells are a type of ancient bell hung from a frame and used in temple ceremonies. Don’t know what “zong1zhou1” specifically refers to: the Zhou Dynasty, perhaps? “zong” - ancestor? Perhaps for ancestor worship?
You’re cold. 
Getting warmer.
You’re cold.
Getting warmer. [/quote]
The name of one of the Zhou capitals?
Ah, but which one? 
Ah, but which one? [/quote]
The one which is the ancestral land of the Zhou?
宗周 Zong1zhou1 was an appellation for one of the Zhou capital cities. Traditionally, Zongzhou has been associated with the capital city of Hao4 鎬, which is near Xi’an. I.e., it was thought to be a secondary name for the same city. However, some scholars now question this, associating it with Qishan…I think I’ll ask a professor at the Academia Sinica’s Institute of History and Philology. In any event, ‘Zongzhou, a Western Zhou capital’ appears to be the safe answer for now.
EDIT: And here’s the professor’s answer, just FYI:
[quote]周文王的都城在「豐」，稱做「豐京」；周武王從「豐京」遷移都城到「鎬」，稱做「鎬京[color=blue]」。「宗周」指的是「鎬京」，[/color]大約位於現在的西安市長安區。
周成王為了加強對東方的控制，在洛邑（現在的洛陽）興建了都城，稱做「成周」，但是周王的活動還是以「宗周」為重心。一直到周平王時（西周最後一個王），因為西方的游牧民族「犬戎」侵入，被迫正式遷都到「成周」──這是「東周」的開始。
西周的「[color=blue]宗周故地」並不只是指西周的都城「鎬京」， [/color][color=red]而是西周「以鎬京為中心的活動區域」，但不包括「洛邑」。[/color]秦人在周平王東遷洛邑後，佔據了西周「以鎬京為中心的活動區域」，開始壯大。[/quote]
So she follows the traditional reading of Hao4, but cautions that Zongzhou Gu4di4 (故地) was the region (not including Luo4yi4), and not the capital alone. 
So, in other words, the translation for Zong1zhou1 is “Zongzhou”! 
Yeah! 
It was a trick question – but only partly. You see, since the identity of Zongzhou has no consensus, there are some who avoid naming a capital altogether, and translating it as “the ancestral homeland of the Zhou”, or naming it as Zongzhou and explaining it thusly.
Also, when you come across the two Chinese characters, it does pose a challenge of sorts for translators – thus its inclusion in this thread.
Ok, here are some easier ones so more people can jump in on the thread. If you know these two blindfolded (not just how to use them, but how to translate them), give others a couple of days to take a shot at them (your own translations will still be interesting to see after that, as these aren’t exactly cakewalks):
-
緣分
yuan2fen4 -
撒嬌
sa3jiao1
[quote=“Dragonbones”]
Ok, here are some easier ones so more people can jump in on the thread. If you know these two blindfolded (not just how to use them, but how to translate them), give others a couple of days to take a shot at them:
-
緣分
yuan2fen4 -
撒嬌
sa3jiao1
:p[/quote]
I know these pretty well - I’ll let others take a shot before putting up my answers.
Here are some more:
台客 Tai2ke4
38 san1ba1
吃豆腐 chi1 dou4fu
and something perhaps more challenging:
隸定 li4ding4
[quote=“Dragonbones”]Here are some more:
台客 Tai2ke4[/quote]
I’ll take this one: “Taiwanese redneck”! Betel nut chawin’, Whisbih sippin’, Long Life smokin’, blue truck drivin’, flip-flop wearin’, Taiyu drawlin’ hick from the South!