What percentage of Taiwanese English teachers pay their own rent? How many have student loans to pay? That is like comparing apples with oranges.
What percentage of Taiwanese English teachers pay their own rent? How many have student loans to pay? That is like comparing apples with oranges.[/quote]
Further, how many of them are inheriting their parentâs money? I know mine have none to leave me but most of the Taiwanese families I know have accumulated a lot over the years to pass on to their kids. My partnerâs parents bought him his house, gave him his car and paid for his graduate degree overseas. I got none of the above.
How many of them have their closest relatives living in another country, so that if they want to see them they have to travel thousands of miles at a huge expense?
How many of them get full benefits, including vacation pay, sick pay and annual bonuses? I get none of the above.
Apples and oranges.
What percentage of Taiwanese English teachers pay their own rent? How many have student loans to pay? That is like comparing apples with oranges.[/quote]
Further, how many of them are inheriting their parentâs money? I know mine have none to leave me but most of the Taiwanese families I know have accumulated a lot over the years to pass on to their kids. My partnerâs parents bought him his house, gave him his car and paid for his graduate degree overseas. I got none of the above.
How many of them have their closest relatives living in another country, so that if they want to see them they have to travel thousands of miles at a huge expense?
How many of them get full benefits, including vacation pay, sick pay and annual bonuses? I get none of the above.
Apples and oranges.[/quote]
Are you an American, Craig? I have a feeling that you are. Just currious.
And this is relevant becauseâŚ
What percentage of Taiwanese English teachers pay their own rent? How many have student loans to pay? That is like comparing apples with oranges.[/quote]
Further, how many of them are inheriting their parentâs money? I know mine have none to leave me but most of the Taiwanese families I know have accumulated a lot over the years to pass on to their kids. My partnerâs parents bought him his house, gave him his car and paid for his graduate degree overseas. I got none of the above.
How many of them have their closest relatives living in another country, so that if they want to see them they have to travel thousands of miles at a huge expense?
How many of them get full benefits, including vacation pay, sick pay and annual bonuses? I get none of the above.
Apples and oranges.[/quote]
But none of this has anything to do with what a for-profit business like a buxiban should pay. They are not responsible for money you borrowed, rent you must pay etc.
Of the TW teachers I know, most of them are carrying a fair bit of credit card debt - should the buxiban owners be responsible for making sure they can pay that? No, of course not, so why should they care about your student loan?
Also, a lot of the teachers I know are from small towns/villages and have moved to bigger cities - presumably that means rent must be paid. And a fair proportion of them have to pay their parents a %age of their paycheck which Iâve been told is more-or-less like paying their parents back for their education.
The inheritance argument is meaningless - my fianceeâs mother doesnât have any to leave her, and I have foreign friends who stand to gain plenty. The exact opposite of your situation, but itâs still not something you can generalize.
And this is relevant becauseâŚ[/quote]
Sheâs going to ask for your phone number!! Donât DO IT, dude!!!
And this is relevant becauseâŚ[/quote]
Sheâs going to ask for your phone number!! Donât DO IT, dude!!!
[/quote]
Awww Chiefy, youâre so cute when youâre jealous!
Craig, you just sound like youâve got a bit of an entitlement complex. I an American, too, and moved back to the States 3.5 years ago. Sometimes I still have a kind of culture shock about the way Americans seem to feel that theyâre not getting a fair shake if they donât have more than the guy next door. The guy next door could have cancer and some people around here would whine that theyâd only had the flu, and only once in the last three years! It hasnât always been that way. Anyway, not relevant in the least, really. Every once in a while I talk back to the tv, too. 
No entitlement complex at all. Itâs all about market forces. Supply and demand.
If a local company wants to hire people from overseas, the pay and benefit package must be compelling enough to attract interest, nâest-ce pas? If the pay does not cover the personâs cost of living, and all of the things I wrote above are typical costs of living for an expat and are absolutely relevant to the subject, then the bushiban owner will not attract candidates.
If on the other hand, a local company wants to hire a local employee, then there is a different set of economics involved.
In regards to English buxibans this has everything to do with it. If a buxiban owner wants to attract foreigners to come to Taiwan they need to pay accordingly. If foreigners were paid 400NT an hour to teach English. I am sure there would be a lot less foreigners here.
It really has nothing to do with the teaching abilities of foreigners. Parents want foreign teachers and buxiban owners want to make money.
Why is this discussion only about JFRV holders (which I am) teaching kindergarten? Why has no one mentioned the legality of teaching primary and older? Because it is clearly legal for a JFRV to teach them. The kindies are questionable, the older students are not, as is tutoring. Ever notice there it no place on the tax return to declare private tutoring?
In regards to English buxibans this has everything to do with it. If a buxiban owner wants to attract foreigners to come to Taiwan they need to pay accordingly. If foreigners were paid 400NT an hour to teach English. I am sure there would be a lot less foreigners here.[/quote]
Be careful what you say. Just a couple short years ago it was easy to find jobs that started out at 750 per hour, or 80000 a month. I know, I frequented Taiwanted.com during that time every day. Sure, the average was maybe 60,000 (and now itâs closer to 52,000), but jobs as a whole were not in short supply as they are now. Now, since thereâs so much competition, schools donât even advertise much online and have dropped their going rates much lower. Pretty soon theyâll be offering 500 per hour as a standard starting fee and will lower the prices of their classes to entice more parents (with only one child).
This industry is going downhill fast. Donât expect Taiwanese buxiban owners to wise up and start offering benefits now. 8 years ago, the Hess school I worked for gave bonuses 6 times a year, and paid for a vacation in Bali, Indonesia. No shit. Now, they buy us coffee once a year. Thatâs the bonus. Itâs too late in the game to turn back now. Theyâd have to charge more to pay more, and thatâs too risky.
Why is this discussion only about JFRV holders (which I am) teaching kindergarten? Why has no one mentioned the legality of teaching primary and older? Because it is clearly legal for a JFRV to teach them. The kindies are questionable, the older students are not, as is tutoring. Ever notice there it no place on the tax return to declare private tutoring?[/quote]
As far as I know it is illegal for Taiwanese to teach English in a kindergarten, so why wouldnât it be illegal for JFRVs to teach English in a kindergarten?
Why is this discussion only about JFRV holders (which I am) teaching kindergarten? Why has no one mentioned the legality of teaching primary and older? Because it is clearly legal for a JFRV to teach them. The kindies are questionable, the older students are not, as is tutoring. Ever notice there it no place on the tax return to declare private tutoring?[/quote]
As far as I know it is illegal for Taiwanese to teach English in a kindergarten, so why wouldnât it be illegal for JFRVs to teach English in a kindergarten?[/quote]
Itâs not illegal. Theyâre not allowed to teach full-time English.
Here is a question for all of you.
Private teaching seems to be illegal. But on websites such as tealit or others, there is a space for teachers to advertise their services.
Some of these show they are available for teaching as well as privates.
Does that mean these websites are facilitating illegal teaching activity in Taiwan?
Cheers
The lion
No. Itâs illegal if you donât have an APRC or JFRC, which many overseasâ teachers have. Many Taiwanese people and dual nationality holders are native speakers of English so it is legal for them to teach privately. Chances are, they arenât declaring it to the taxman, though, a foul practice that Iâm sure tealit.com would never encourage.
If you want to be super technical, itâs still illegal but itâs allowed when you have a JFRV. Having a JFRV doesnât make it magically legal, it just makes it so the government wonât take action against you, especially action like fining or deporting you, if youâre found out. Technically speaking, foreigners arenât supposed to be working certain jobs regardless of their marital status in Taiwan, but that doesnât mean they canât. Itâs a strange, confusing system.
And in response to the bit about private tutoring: Are you saying you donât appreciate the ability to advertise private teaching services? Thatâs what keeps us alive. Itâs only illegal so they can bust agents who try to dodge taxes and such, but youâd be hard-pressed to find a lawman who actually knew or cared that foreigners tutoring is illegal.
And to say âmanyâ foreigners have an APRC or JFRV might be a bit of an exaggeration. Iâd say the GRAND majority just have a normal ARC or, in some cases, and extended visitorâs visa.
[quote=âXinBiDeâ]If you want to be super technical, itâs still illegal but itâs allowed when you have a JFRV. Having a JFRV doesnât make it magically legal, it just makes it so the government wonât take action against you, especially action like fining or deporting you, if youâre found out. Technically speaking, foreigners arenât supposed to be working certain jobs regardless of their marital status in Taiwan, but that doesnât mean they canât. Itâs a strange, confusing system.
And in response to the bit about private tutoring: Are you saying you donât appreciate the ability to advertise private teaching services? Thatâs what keeps us alive. Itâs only illegal so they can bust agents who try to dodge taxes and such, but youâd be hard-pressed to find a lawman who actually knew or cared that foreigners tutoring is illegal.
And to say âmanyâ foreigners have an APRC or JFRV might be a bit of an exaggeration. Iâd say the GRAND majority just have a normal ARC or, in some cases, and extended visitorâs visa.[/quote]
Its not illegal, technically or otherwise. JFRV holders are allowed to take any kind of work that weâre qualified to do. Private tutoring requires no qualifications, so anyone can do it, provided we satisfy the requirements of the client.
Then I stand corrected.
But when I spoke of private tutoring I was really referring to people without JFRVs tutoring. Yes, itâs âillegalâ, but no one cares.
[quote=âXinBiDeâ]Then I stand corrected.
But when I spoke of private tutoring I was really referring to people without JFRVs tutoring. Yes, itâs âillegalâ, but no one cares.[/quote]
They care all right, but they also know how difficult it is to enforce. If your client, though, happens to fall foul of a neighbour who informs on you, then you will be in a sticky situation. Seen it happen.
In regards to English buxibans this has everything to do with it. If a buxiban owner wants to attract foreigners to come to Taiwan they need to pay accordingly. If foreigners were paid 400NT an hour to teach English. I am sure there would be a lot less foreigners here.[/quote]
Be careful what you say. Just a couple short years ago it was easy to find jobs that started out at 750 per hour, or 80000 a month. I know, I frequented Taiwanted.com during that time every day. Sure, the average was maybe 60,000 (and now itâs closer to 52,000), but jobs as a whole were not in short supply as they are now. Now, since thereâs so much competition, schools donât even advertise much online and have dropped their going rates much lower. Pretty soon theyâll be offering 500 per hour as a standard starting fee and will lower the prices of their classes to entice more parents (with only one child).
This industry is going downhill fast. Donât expect Taiwanese buxiban owners to wise up and start offering benefits now. 8 years ago, the Hess school I worked for gave bonuses 6 times a year, and paid for a vacation in Bali, Indonesia. No shit. Now, they buy us coffee once a year. Thatâs the bonus. Itâs too late in the game to turn back now. Theyâd have to charge more to pay more, and thatâs too risky.[/quote]
I agree that the industry is rapidly going downhill. The only counter-acting force is the job market for university graduates in the U.S., and to a lesser extent, elsewhere. As long as the U.S. employment market is fucked, the situation will be temporarily alleviated. However, if/when it picks up, expect a mass exodus of foreigners teaching English in Taiwan. There will always be a certain percentage who want to come to Asia for the adventure of it all, but if wages continue to fall in Taiwan, then at some point, there wonât be a significant difference between Taiwan and certain other countries (especially if those countries have population growth, and thus, increasing demand for teachers). Letâs say for a moment that it gets to that point, are people going to want to live in Taiwan or Thailand, Cambodia, etc.? Iâm guessing the latter. No one goes to live in Taiwan, South Korea or Abu Dhabi because they think theyâd be cool places to live. They go for the money. If the money goes, they go.
At that point, expect buxibans and kindergartens to be full of Russians, Poles or Afrikaans speaking South Africans teaching English. Of course, thatâs a bizarre concept, but thatâs what it will get to because no one will want to pay native speakers more (and I donât think itâs that they canât afford to pay more, even now, since 150NT/hour more for the teacher only translates into about 10-20NT/student/hour). If people think English is woeful in this country now, just wait until it gets to that point!
Taiwan is also seeing this problem with qualified teachers, again perhaps only temporarily alleviated by the economic situation in the U.S. Most Australian teachers wouldnât touch Taiwan with a barge pole though because the benefits are woeful compared to Australia. The Taiwanese governmental system canât get anywhere near as many people as it needs.
In my own case (a qualified teacher), other than perhaps doing a little subbing work this year, I donât intend to work in the buxiban or kindergarten sector. Not for the crap, not for 600NT/hour. I have a yearâs living expenses in the bank. Iâm trying to work for myself. Failing that, Iâm out of Taiwan by the end of the year. I could work in an international school, the Middle East or Brunei, Britain or Australia, or maybe even somewhere in south-east Asia. Government schools here arenât a particularly attractive option though and I think the government sector is going to have to wake up to that also if theyâre really serious about getting native speakers. Of course, I think theyâre fairly wishy washy on that, but still, the demand exceeds the supply.