Would or do you send your kids to Taiwanese school?

[quote=“Boomer”]NO!
Let me put it another way. There are no Taiwanese schools in Taiwan. All public schools teach in Chinese and use Chinese education methods. I would be willing to send my children to Taiwanese school if the language they used was Taiwanese and they used progressive teaching methods based on science and psychology, not Chinese/ Confucius culture.[/quote]

Actually, what is passed off as traditional “Confucian” methods here have about as much to do with Confucianism as, say, Mormonism does with Christianity (hehe, no flames please). What many “conservative” Taiwanese/Chinese like to call “Confucian” values, methods, etc. are much more in line with Legalist doctrine (the stuff of Shang Yang, Li Si, Han Feizi, etc.) and Neo-Confucianism. True, orthodox Confucianism stresses benevolence and humanity, mutual respect, etc. I think Confucius and Mencius would turn over in their graves if they knew the kind of torture that has befallen the Chinese/Taiwanese in the name of Confucianism. Ok, I’m done ranting now …

An example from the Taipei Times:

Family of beaten girl seeks redress

A high school student, accompanied by her mother and a city councilor, returned to her former school yesterday in an attempt to get school authorities to take responsibility for her injuries after she was brutally beaten by a teacher on June 19.

According to Taichung City Councilor Ho Wen-hai (何文海), the victim, identified only by her surname Yeh, was a first grader at the Pei-shing Junior High School (北新國中) in Taichung City.

Her teacher, surnamed Wang, allegedly punished her because Yeh scored just 53 points on her geography examination, far below the standard grade of 85 set by Wang.

“The teacher beat me very severely on the buttocks with a big stick,” Yeh said. “More than 30 students failed to meet the minimum requirement, and so the teacher punished us one after another.”

The girl added that the teacher vented anger against her because another student had spoken back to Wang, provoking the teacher to hit Yeh hard.

“When my daughter came back from school after she had been beaten, she told me she did not feel well,” Yeh’s mother said. "I took her to the hospital for a check up, and found out she was suffering from hematuria, or a bleeding kidney.

“My daughter used to be a gymnast, yet she was forced to drop out from the team because of the severity of her injuries. How could such a thing happen at school? My child went to school with a healthy body only to come back with a serious physical injury. If her kidney is permanently damaged, what can we do?”

Liu Chin-chung (劉進忠), the school’s principle, said that he learned of the incident on June 22 after Yeh’s parent came to school to protest the teacher’s action.

“I launched an immediate investigation after having received the report. I subsequently requested the teacher to hand in a letter of confession,” Liu said. “I asked the parent to take her daughter for a physical examination to find out if the injury had resulted from the teacher’s disciplinary action, but so far I have not heard any response from them. I did not expect they would make another complaint.”

The teacher conceded that she had beaten the student once on the buttocks, and nowhere else. According to Liu, the teacher had acknowledged that her behavior was not acceptable.

But Liu claimed that she meted out the punishment for one reason only: the deeper the love, the harsher the discipline (愛之深,責之切).

Reports said the girl was transferred to An-ho Junior High School (安和國中) because of the incident.

As accounts of the incident from school authorities and the victim’s family differ greatly, the Education Bureau of the Taichung City Government has launched an inquiry into the incident.

taipeitimes.com/News/local/a … 8/09/47055

A million horror stories and nothing good to report; a quick look at my own country, the good ole USA, turns up as many- so what? Any good statistics on if it is worse here? Anecdotal evidence is interesting but is often too misleading. I have a treasure trove of horror stories as well as gems.

yeah, they would probably think, that teachers are not strikt enough. i wouldn’t be surprised if confucius actually physically punished his students…=)

yeah, they would probably think, that teachers are not strikt enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if confucius actually physically punished his students…=)[/quote]

I think you’re still mistaking Confucianism and Legalism. Xunzi advocated changing man’s character through education (his “education” referred to reading & understanding the “classics”, and not beating … and he was even the strictest of the Confucians.) The physical punishment stuff came later … and that was not “Confucianism”.

what’s your source?

Read the Neo-Confucian philosophers Chu Hsi and Wang Yangming (Chiang Kai-shek’s hero…as in Yang Ming Mountain).

So you’re saying that the physical punishment stuff started with Zhu Xi in the Song? Ok, maybe that’s the first written document about it (is it?), but do you really believe that people didn’t beat their kids before Zhu Xi?? I don’t think so…maybe someday I’ll find the time to search the Confucian classics for that…would be interessting

Kids have been beaten throughout history … and I’m not saying that a “Confucian” teacher would not beat their students. My point is that Confucian philosophy in itself does not advocate corporal punishment. That is due to the influence of Legalism. Confucianism often gets a bad rep for being the basis of abuse of children/students, parents controlling their kids to the extreme, etc. However, these do not come from Confucianism, but rather Legalism. The influence of Legalism, IMHO, is at least equally as strong as Confucianism in Chinese culture, just not as openly acknowledged (given the bad taste left in the mouth of most Chinese by Legalism’s strongest advocates, Qin Shihuang and Li Si). The Taiwanese/Chinese notion of “filial piety” is a good example. The way it is used now really has nothing to do with its original meaning. In name it’s Confucian, in practice it’s Legalist.

As far as sources go, and the differences in educational philosophy between the Confucians and Legalists, I would suggest reading Han Feizi’s

i’m quite familiar with the classics, but maybe i’m not so familiar with the way the chinese/taiwanese bring up their kids…=)

i don’t think that corporal punishment per se is legalistic. but yeah, as far as i remember, i haven’t read anything about corporal punishment in the classics, but i never paid attention to that point when i was reading. so what i was saying is, that i wouldn’t be surprised if there actually were some hints to corporal punishment in the confucian classics. but this is just my guess…
this would make a good phd thesis, though…

Tiger man Hi!

Pls tell where is location of that experimental school?

Durins Bane,

Durin pls tell to which schools yr childs go?

I really tired to seach schools for my kid.

b.rgds

Thats the parents beating the lids and not the teachers afaik. My son also studied in Australia for five eyars, then did 5th & 6th grade up in Alishan and is now in Taichung at Linclon.

In the final math test for last year the teacher marked one of his answers as wrong. Chaon is his private math tutor and when he rang the teacher to ask her how she marked his answer as wrong she couldn’t… she fooked up bigtime and wouldnt admit it… but my son did get his score adjusted…

His average for the years math was a B… better than I did lol But he got A’s in other subjects…

He keeps daily email contact with his friends from Alishan here… written in Chinese…

A dose of both systems doesnt hurt. Nothing wrong with the elementary school system here… as for the others… well I guess I’m like most foreign parents… get your kids into TAS or Lincoln and avoid Morrison

[quote=“sunshinea”]Durins Bane,

Durin pls tell to which schools yr childs go?

I really tired to seach schools for my kid.

b.rgds[/quote]

They go to a public elementary school here in Kaohsiung. I am quite pleased with the education they are receiving. My oldest son is on the tennis team and I think that helps keep in motivated to study (if he scores below a certain % they kick him out of the tennis class and he has to go back to a regular class).

What my kids are doing for education will have to change soon, though.