Would The Rust Fairy Be a Felon?

[Pizzaman]

Thanks, got some searching to do now.

[Ducked]

@DrewC

@Ducked

“But if the Law thinks that, Sir, Then The Law is an ass”

I don’t know. I’d be pretty annoyed if someone was messing with my property, even if they thought they were performing a service. If there’s no damage, I don’t think I’d press charges… but it’s still an invasion of privacy at the very least.

Yeh, but you being pretty annoyed isn’t really a legal opinion.

I’d be interested to know how Authoritay would react in such a case.

Would they take the “No real harm done, Ma fan” position, or would they throw the book (if there is a book for this) at you, to defend the sanctity of the private property that they are quite likely to tow away and scrap next week.

My guess is it’d be the former at the beat cop level, and prosecution to the full extent of the law if it got to the courts, but I don’t know.

Hypothetically, it’d almost be worth turning myself in to find out.

Not quite though.

[Ducked]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

It depends. If you keep removing rust everyday without doing anything to stop it from rusting like painting them, eventually you will wear a hole through the panel, and that would be damage.

If you want to be a rust fairy ask the owner for permission. Otherwise such unsolicited work is still vandalism if the guy decides to press charges.

No rust removal in my hypothetical,

OTOH, the oil mix hypothetically used would be protective and long term the vegetable oil component polymerises by oxidation to form a sort of paint.

Thats quite a few irrelevancies-in-context you’ve introduced so far, but I suppose you can have your own set of hypotheticals if you really want them.

If I was treating this type of surface rust on my own vehicle, I would abrade the rust with aluminium foil, finishing off by using straight vegetable oil as a binder, This forms a slow-setting aluminium paint in situ which is quite effective at preventing further rust.

I wouldn’t do that in this case because (a) it takes too long, (one inevitably attracts a pack of barking stray dogs, Taiwans Guardians of Conventional Behaviour, doing this sort of thing at night) and (b) it alters the appearance of the vehicle,

Its just possible (though very unlikely) that the owner would specifically want to preserve the "“patina” of his old truck, Some old car enthusiasts use straight boiled linseed oil for this purpose,

About 27 minutes in

OPERATION PRESERVE PATINA! Buffing Oxidized Paint and Applying Linseed Oil - Vice Grip Garage EP56

I dunno if you can get linseed in Taiwan. Maybe Tung Oil?

Sunflower oil sets more slowly, and the hypothetical mix used in this case was designed for cavity use, with mineral oil to increase penetration and further retard setting, so heavy rain or solvent might shift it off surface rust.

[Ducked]

@tempogain

I think this is one of those only you situations. Only you know if ameliorating the rusting process on a random parked vehicle is worth the chance of exposing yourself to legal penalties and/or incurring the wrath of some xenophobic or rust-loving owner.

Sure, but then I didn’t make a hypothetical “Help me decide what to do?” (Apparently as some kind of Adam Smithian rational actor in my own material self interest) post.

I made a hypothetical “I’ve already done it” post, (Adam Smith does not/need not apply) and invited comment (or speculation, since I’d guess no one really knows) as to the likely (criminal) legal position.

Frivolous civil prosecution (or not so frivolous baseball bat chastisement) are maybe more likely, though they’d still have to catch me.

[DrewC]

@Ducked

Would they take the “No real harm done, Ma fan” position, or would they throw the book (if there is a book for this)

They wouldn’t dismiss it nor “throw the book at you.” They’d view it as property damage and/or trespassing and a lot would depend on whether the owner of the truck you “fairied” wants to press charges.

I would suggest retiring as a “Rust Fairy.” It’s a service no one asked for and one that risks adverse consequences for you. It’s also one of the most bewildering things I’ve read in the Legal forum.

[tempogain]

One thing that comes to mind, where I come from, if I see someone pouring shit on my car, I’m not thinking “oh how nice, he’s helping me to prevent rust” but “that mf poured shit on my car!” and assume it’s probably about as damaging as hydrochloric acid. I wonder how proving your good intent might go. Also you might tend to be blamed for any existing rust, dents, or whatever seemed convenient.

[Ducked]

@tempogain

One thing that comes to mind, where I come from, if I see someone pouring shit on my car, I’m not thinking “oh how nice, he’s helping me to prevent rust” but “that mf poured shit on my car!” and assume it’s probably about as damaging as hydrochloric acid. I wonder how proving your good intent might go. Also you might tend to be blamed for any existing rust, dents, or whatever seemed convenient.

Sure.

The risk is acceptable, as I think we’ve already covered.

Plus (presumably) we aren’t where you come from, where, depending on where it is, I might perhaps get shot, which wouldn’t be.

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

I think the moral of the story is when dealing with any personal property ask the owner if you can do whatever it is you are about to do. Or ask him to do something about the rust and if he says he can’t afford to offer to pay for the supplies for it.

But if you are just scrubbing someone’s car and spray painting it, 99% of the owners are going to think you are vandalizing their property, or worse, trying to steal it.

[Poundsand]

@Ducked

Except that, in this case, it isnt, since no damage is done

To get somewhat silly,maybe they’re developing a patina for a cool rat rod? more seriously, if it wasn’t abandoned, I wouldn’t want anyone putting diesel and hydraulic fluid on my car, no matter how ratty they thought it was. and it certainly can, at minimum, stain the paint if left on.

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

To answer the topic, it most likely would be a misdemeanor, not a felony. Felony is if you wound up killing the owner.

[tempogain]

@Ducked

Plus (presumably) we aren’t where you come from,

I think Taiwan is rather like where I come from in that!

If there’s even anything in here about damaging property, I can’t find it

https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000001

This may contribute to that point in that a local regulation had to be enacted against graffiti

https://english.gov.taipei/News_Content.aspx?n=A11F01CFC9F58C83&sms=DFFA119D1FD5602C&s=B5D044DC5AFF6101

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

There’s a law on vandalism. It’s 毀損罪
I don’t know if this is something the owner needs to press charges on or the government does, but there’s also civil suit for damages.

[tempogain]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

毀損罪

Yes, Article 354

A person who abandon, destroys, damages, or renders useless a thing belonging to another which is not specified in the two preceding articles and causes injury to the public or another shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than two years, short-term imprisonment, or a fine of not more than fifteen thousand dollars.

I’m a little unclear what they mean by “causes injury”, “足以生損害於公眾或他人者” in Chinese. Anyway I guess this is the worst?

[user86]

@Ducked

If you got caught (video?) what might they charge you with?

How would they even find you? What are they going to do? Run around the whole country with the video of you, and stop people in the streets and ask if they know who you are?

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

If the owner reports it to the police they will find you. They can run facial recognition and compare it to your arc or whatever. So probably a good idea to wear a mask. They are very efficient at catching criminals here.

Applying stuff to something not belonging to you, without the owners permission, would qualify as damage. That is if he wants to press charges. Always ask the owner permission if you’re going to do rust fairy thing. And definitely settle up if he catches you because then he probably won’t press charges. You don’t know why the car is rusted, maybe he likes the look. He sees you put something on the car panel it might as well be acid for all he cares. That’s not to mention improper rust removal would actually damage things.

[Ducked]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

But if you are just scrubbing someone’s car and spray painting it, 99% of the owners are going to think you are vandalizing their property, or worse, trying to steal it.

But then I’m clearly not “just scrubbing someone’s car and spray painting it” or anything like it.

You seem to be suffering from some kind of RIS (Repeated Irrelevance Syndrome).

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

My point is, you don’t do anything to people’s properties without asking their permission. It’s called respect. You don’t so much as touch it if you can avoid it.

[Ducked]

@tempogain

@Taiwan_Luthiers

毀損罪

Yes, Article 354

A person who abandon, destroys, damages, or renders useless a thing belonging to another which is not specified in the two preceding articles and causes injury to the public or another shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than two years, short-term imprisonment, or a fine of not more than fifteen thousand dollars.

I’m a little unclear what they mean by “causes injury”, “足以生損害於公眾或他人者” in Chinese. Anyway I guess this is the worst?

Only material one there I could possibly hypothetically be guilty of in this case would be “damages”, and that would be a huge, contentious and frankly ludicrous stretch.

If “causing injury” extends to mental distress, that could of course be claimed, but the “and” (in English, at least) implies both have to be established. On that basis I ought to have a good chance of walking.

But I reckon they might “make an example” anyway.

[Ducked]

@Poundsand

@Ducked

Except that, in this case, it isnt, since no damage is done

To get somewhat silly,maybe they’re developing a patina for a cool rat rod? more seriously, if it wasn’t abandoned, I wouldn’t want anyone putting diesel and hydraulic fluid on my car, no matter how ratty they thought it was. and it certainly can, at minimum, stain the paint if left on.

Doesn’t stain my paint.

(The cool rat rod aspect is sort of acknowledged above with the video link, and is a reason for using oil, which has minimal effect on the appearance of the vehicle)