I didn’t see the comments - didn’t realise they were hiding under all the Tweets.
The way I understood from the TT was that the blogger wrote a negative review after eating there and the main point was the food. The blog link above seems to suggest that it all stemmed from an argument about blocking the road. That doesn’t make it right but it also doesn’t make it seem as random as just a bad review - there is some malice on both sides for whatever reason.
Had a letter to the editor printed about this today in the Taipei Times. I wrote it based off Tpe Times reporting and not knowing the real story yet. Still…enjoyed writing it. 
[quote=“Poagao”][quote=“cfimages”]Saw this on a blog yesterday.
mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/20 … urant.html
If it’s true, then what was reported in the media is not even close to what really happened.[/quote]
The details were wrong, certainly, but the main thrust wasn’t. A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog. And the comments on that post read like a Forumosa thread.[/quote]
This is wrong. The implication of the TT article, many of the posts here, and posts I have seen on Facebook is that “A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog.” The real case is that a well-known blogger used their authority to slander and threaten a merchant because of a dispute over parking. They were then sued for this. Maybe you didn’t read all the links. I recommend it. It should sort you out on the facts.
[quote=“ScottSommers”][quote=“Poagao”][quote=“cfimages”]Saw this on a blog yesterday.
mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/20 … urant.html
If it’s true, then what was reported in the media is not even close to what really happened.[/quote]
The details were wrong, certainly, but the main thrust wasn’t. A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog. And the comments on that post read like a Forumosa thread.[/quote]
This is wrong. The implication of the TT article, many of the posts here, and posts I have seen on Facebook is that “A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog.” The real case is that a well-known blogger used their authority to slander and threaten a merchant because of a dispute over parking. They were then sued for this. Maybe you didn’t read all the links. I recommend it. It should sort you out on the facts.[/quote]
Um … do bloggers have authority? They may have influence, but I think one can only say that prosecutors and judges have authority.
Um … slander is verbal, libel is written.
Um … threaten? Really?
As for reading all the links, I’m waiting for the links that reveal what color the cars were, what the weather was like, what clothes everyone was wearing, who’s on what medication, etc, etc, etc.
Authority? So I take you think that things posted on the internet have no weight. Or is that only newspapers that have weight on the Net? Or is it everything on the Net that doesn’t matter? Or is it just things that you don’t think should count? There’s a long history of legal actions associated with bloggers, even among the ‘advanced’ peoples of the world. But you must know that already.
Jury: Blogger Johnny Northside must pay $60,000 to fired community leader
startribune.com/local/117805398.html
Brian Hill: Hobby blogger sued by MediaNews & Righthaven is 20, chronically ill, autistic
blogs.westword.com/latestword/20 … thaven.php
Mpls. blogger ordered to pay $60K in defamation case
minnesota.publicradio.org/displa … r-lawsuit/
Miami real estate blogger sued for $25 million
activerain.com/blogsview/357093/ … 25-million
“Skanks in NYC” blog post leads to lawsuit against Google
arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news … google.ars
The Dirty sued by Missouri woman for blog post calling her a ‘Nasty Church Girl’
ShoeMoney.com Involved In A Landmark Blog Case – Slander In Comments
shoemoney.com/2006/09/01/sho … -comments/
Shoemoney & blogging & Libel.
plentyoffish.wordpress.com/2006/ … ney-libel/
Cape Cod Blogger Peter Robbins Sued For Libel Over Comments About Local Dredging Dispute
citmedialaw.org/blog/2008/ca … ng-dispute
Two Bloggers Sued, One by a Lawyer
legalblogwatch.typepad.com/legal … rs-su.html
and then there’s this one
blogs.villagevoice.com/runninsca … ined_6.php
Blogger Fined $60,000 for Telling the Truth
and on and on and on…
So judging from the way things are handled in the White nations of the world, or at least the one that really matters (the USA), it does seem that a lot of this case is about whether it’s the bad noodles or about someone trying to get revenge over a parking dispute. But I presume that doesn’t matter to the Taipei Times since those Taiwanese, they’re always doing such silly things.
The difference is that defamation is treated as a civil matter in the Anglo-American legal tradition. If the court determines there has been substantive harm against the plaintiff, the defendant is required to provide financial restitution. That’s it. As Mucha Man said, treating defamation as a criminal matter provides no public good and discourages the free exchange of ideas.
I agree with you. I also agree there are problems with this ruling that you are better situated to describe. But they do have little to do with the original article published on the Taipei Times website, and subsequently around the world on the Internet, that claimed [quote=“Poagao”]A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog.[/quote]
This seems to the thrust of most of the comments on the case, both here and abroad, but despite the fact that it is wrong, it continues to be repeated, even here, where most of the members generally seem to support the idea of a Taiwanese lifestyle. Even among people who would otherwise tell you the TT can’t be trusted for honest, objective or thorough reporting. This is very strange to me.
This seems to the thrust of most of the comments on the case, both here and abroad, but despite the fact that it is wrong, it continues to be repeated, even here, where most of the members generally seem to support the idea of a Taiwanese lifestyle. Even among people who would otherwise tell you the TT can’t be trusted for honest, objective or thorough reporting. This is very strange to me.[/quote]
I think in threads like this you find a lot of “venting by substitution”: someone is unhappy/frustrated about something else (related to Taiwan, or perhaps not even that), and any half-baked newsaper report provides a suitable opportunity to let off steam and generate some entertainment value along the way. 
[quote=“ScottSommers”][quote=“Poagao”][quote=“cfimages”]Saw this on a blog yesterday.
mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/20 … urant.html
If it’s true, then what was reported in the media is not even close to what really happened.[/quote]
The details were wrong, certainly, but the main thrust wasn’t. A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog. And the comments on that post read like a Forumosa thread.[/quote]
This is wrong. The implication of the TT article, many of the posts here, and posts I have seen on Facebook is that “A woman was successfully sued for disparaging a restaurant on her blog.” The real case is that a well-known blogger used their authority to slander and threaten a merchant because of a dispute over parking. They were then sued for this. Maybe you didn’t read all the links. I recommend it. It should sort you out on the facts.[/quote]
Potato, potato. I read all the links, including the original Chinese story, and it boils down to the same thing. That is of course my opinion, but you can always sue.
So I guess you can read all the links and stil not understand what’s going on. Strange, but I guess it’s true.
I once hoped that the denizens of this site would get past the whole YJDUTC mindset, but I’ve been proved wrong too many times. I’ll be nice now; good night and good luck.
Yes, I don’t blacklist a former school because my boss made it clear there would be consequences if anyone did. Every time I see their ad on tealit I feel bad.
This seems to the thrust of most of the comments on the case, both here and abroad, but despite the fact that it is wrong, it continues to be repeated, even here, where most of the members generally seem to support the idea of a Taiwanese lifestyle. Even among people who would otherwise tell you the TT can’t be trusted for honest, objective or thorough reporting. This is very strange to me.[/quote]
I think in threads like this you find a lot of “venting by substitution”: someone is unhappy/frustrated about something else (related to Taiwan, or perhaps not even that), and any half-baked newsaper report provides a suitable opportunity to let off steam and generate some entertainment value along the way. [/quote]
I hope it wasn’t your intention to include Poagao in the above observation, but it’s hard for me to tell, because your post contains a quote by him.
Poagao is a naturalized ROC citizen, is a veteran of the ROC Army, is fluent in Chinese, and has lived here, I think, for about 20 years.
Yes, I know. That’s why I’m surprised he seems to think there’s no difference between the two interpretations of the situation and that whatever difference exists is trivial. But as I said earlier, this situation is full of people who would tell the Taipei Times is a prime example of a promising newspaper that turned to trash who will still cite every one of their ‘human interest’ stories that make Taiwan look silly and backward. Nor does the TT’s pro-Taiwan commitment seem to stop them from printing such stupidity.
I don’t know, scott. I browsed through the links and while yes I did discover there was a colorful backstory, I agree with poagao that the essence of the legal case is that a person wrote a negative review of the restaurant and was sued for that and not for complaining about a parked car.
Furthermore, she was charged with a criminal offense. It doesn’t matter whether she was being spiteful when she wrote, a defamation case should not result in a criminal charge and a potential jail sentence. It’s appalling that taiwan’s legal system will criminalize face-losing actions and to many of us that is the real issue. Nothing in the links suggests that taiwan’s legal system is not a backward as it is frequently made out to be.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]I don’t know, scott. I browsed through the links and while yes I did discover there was a colorful backstory, I agree with poagao that the essence of the legal case is that a person wrote a negative review of the restaurant and was sued for that and not for complaining about a parked car.
Furthermore, she was charged with a criminal offense. It doesn’t matter whether she was being spiteful when she wrote, a defamation case should not result in a criminal charge and a potential jail sentence. It’s appalling that Taiwan’s legal system will criminalize face-losing actions and to many of us that is the real issue. Nothing in the links suggests that Taiwan’s legal system is not a backward as it is frequently made out to be.[/quote]
I agree that defamation should be a matter for the civil courts. However, according to this map, it is still a criminal offence in most countries.
article19.org/advocacy/defamationmap/map/
The Taipei Times story was simply lifted from the its sister paper the Liberty Times, which is full of inaccuracies at the best of times.
It was then mistranslated by the Taipei Times. Taiwan-based bloggers and the foreign media quickly picked up the story without doing any fact-checking, and within hours the inaccurate headline “Taiwanese blogger jailed for saying beef noodles too salty” was all over the web.
Oh,I know. And I agree with scott that in too many case people with jump on anything to justify their bad feelings about taiwan at the time.
But that’s not the case here. As for defamation being a criminal matter in ma ny countries that’s not really germane. i’m sure many countries would not charge a man with molesting children either but that doesn’t mean that when judges dismiss such cases here it is not an outrage.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]Oh,I know. And I agree with scott that in too many case people with jump on anything to justify their bad feelings about taiwan at the time.
But that’s not the case here. As for defamation being a criminal matter in ma ny countries that’s not really germane. I’m sure many countries would not charge a man with molesting children either but that doesn’t mean that when judges dismiss such cases here it is not an outrage.[/quote]
I think the headline “blogger jailed for saying beef noodles were too salty” was too good for the various tweeteres, bloggers, and internet news organs to resist.
Aside from poor standard of reporting and editing in the Taipei Times. I think it highlights a number of broader issues in a media world driven by blogs, tweets, and instant news - no one bothered to check the actual facts of the case. The only thing that mattered was the twitter "blogger jailed for saying restaurants beef noodles are too salty " tagline.
I agree that there is an issue with the use of defamation laws in Taiwan, however it would be better to have a discussion based on the actual facts of the case.
When you go to jail you can write a bad review of the prison food and they will set you free.
The blog post linked to earlier in this thread contains a comment (located here) by a Taiwanese blogger who uses nickname Taiwan Echo, quoted here in pertinent part:
Taiwan Echo posted both judgments (the initial trial judgment and the judgment on appeal) on his Chinese-language blog, located here. In the judgments, the court’s words are colored blue, the defendant’s purple, and the witness’ or witnesses’ green.
I can’t figure out how many witnesses testified, and I don’t know Chinese, but from using Google Translate (I know, very risky), I’m reasonably sure that at least one witness used a word that translates into English as dirty. However, apparently he, she, or they testified that they did not see any cockroaches.
The judgment appears to include the defendant’s “salty” comment, and in the appeal judgment, the court appears to make some mention of it (although I don’t know the meaning of the mention).
It would be nice, and much appreciated–although obviously no one is obligated at all to do this–if someone with a command of Chinese would give us a little help on the judgment(s).