XP support ending--move to Linux?

Life Technology
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[quote=“Kobo-Daishi”]What if you don’t change operating systems and continue using Windows XP?

What’s the worst that can happen?

I’m still using XP, but, I don’t use the desktop for finance or anything of a personal nature.

All I do is visit sharing web sites and use it for Bit Torrent and E-Mule downloads.[/quote]

There will be a malware problem or some exploit. Since XP is not supported and therefore won’t be any patches to fix that, it might involve data mining, or using your XP computer in a bot network to throw attacks to official sites that could be traced back to your IP (that should worry you, specially if, say, chinese hackers use it to attack taiwanese or US networks).

Torrent/emule sites are usually crawling with malware and all kinds of the wrong shit. Nevdr use those if you can’t trust completely your OS. Then again, if Ubuntu’s safety is good enough for the MI6, should be good enough for most users.

62

I’m writing this for potential Linux punters…

I’m a long-term Linux user (since 1998). I don’t do Windows.

Despite my Linux fanaticism, one discouraging thing I feel compelled to say is that I really hate Ubuntu’s default Unity interface. I find that it makes simple things difficult, at least for a desktop system. Unity seems to be most popular with people who are used to working on a smart phone, and I happen to be one of those people who dislikes smart phones (I’m not alone in that). Even if you’re a smart phone addict, you might not find the Android/Apple interface very appealing for a desktop system. I have, just for fun, downloaded and tried Android on my desktop computer, but I didn’t care much for it. I find having a Start button useful, and the trend towards iconization leaves me non-plussed. Plus I sometimes like to work at the command line (a la MS-DOS).

What I’m afraid of is that newbies will install Ubuntu because of its popularity, and be put off by the Unity interface (with its annoying screenfuls of icons) and then head straight back to Windows.

Fortunately, you don’t have to become a victim of iconitis, because there is no single “Linux interface” that you are compelled to use. Rather, you can completely change the desktop appearance, and I’m not just talking about changing menu colors or background wallpaper. You can make it look similar to Windows, Mac, Android, even MS-DOS, or something totally different. The difference between these various interfaces is like a pickup truck vs a sports car.

I often direct new users to Lubuntu, an Ubuntu-variant which in my opinion is much easier (than Unity) for Windows refugees to adapt to.

If you’ve installed Ubuntu with the default Unity desktop and decided you don’t like it, there is no need to reinstall. You can add Lubuntu to it by installing the package lubuntu-desktop, then logging out and logging back in again (or rebooting) and choosing “Lubuntu” as the new interface. You can switch it back to Unity at any time if you prefer.

Another interface worth looking at is Xubuntu. Again, you can install it on top of an existing Ubuntu setup with the package xubuntu-desktop, and then logging out/in.

You can also switch the language at log-in time, a rather useful feature if you live in a bilingual household.

If more than one person uses the computer, each user can choose a difference interface. There’s no reason why Tom, Vladimir, Maria and Miss Huang can’t all use the same machine (though not at the same time) and run a different interface and a different language.

A new version of Ubuntu (plus Lubuntu and Xubuntu) is due out about a week from now. I’ve already installed the Lubuntu beta version and find it very appealing.

If you’re grappling with a decision but are unsure how to proceed, it does help to have a local experienced Linux guru to give you a hand with installation plus a few user pointers. I think we now have a fair number of Linux gurus here on Forumosa who are willing to help out punters in their geographical area. I’m useless to anyone living in the urban jungles of Taipei and Kaohsiung, but if you’re in Taitung and would like some help, drop me a PM.

cheers,
DB

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[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
Despite my Linux fanaticism, one discouraging thing I feel compelled to say is that I really hate Ubuntu’s default Unity interface. I find that it makes simple things difficult, at least for a desktop system. Unity seems to be most popular with people who are used to working on a smart phone, and I happen to be one of those people who dislikes smart phones (I’m not alone in that).[/quote]

That actually isn’t entirely true. Unity is designed to work well with mouse as well as just using the keyboard. Everything is accessible and accessed quickly using the keyboard, as opposed to the MS Windows’ desktop metaphor, which is only mouse oriented.

Of course, it take a little bit of time figuring it out, but that’s the same when you encounter any new interface metaphors. The basics can be found by just holding the Super key (Windows key).

Say you want to call up a program, you just press command key, type in keywords, and use arrow keys to navigate to the program and enter key to open it. In the traditional desktop metaphor, this involves browsing through a huge menu (if you actually use the computer a lot) via mouse or keyboard, but mostly it’s for mouse.

A traditional windows have a lot of special functions that can only be triggered by going through the File/Edit/Tools… menu. Sure you can press the Alt key can go through a huge menu item by item to find what you want, but like opening a program, it is slightly easier to go through a huge menu with the mouse. The MS Windows paradigm was mouse oriented, and if you know what you are doing, it actually isn’t the most effective way to interact with your computer.

Unity allows you to press the Alt key, and type what you want to do, say “Print” and it brings up relevant choices in the menu.

In Computer Engineering terms, going through menus within menus to find the option you are looking for could be looking through a n x n sized matrix. The worst case complexity is O(n²), users with some knowledge of how the options are organized could bring it down to O(n lg n) or even O(n). Where using Unity’s Alt key brings it down to O(1) to O(n) time (usually O(1), assuming the user knows what he/she wants).

Of course, people can always just memorize all the Ctrl+xxx shortcuts in either system, but who can remember all that for every program.

If you want your desktop design paradigm to only make using the mouse easier, you want the old MS Windows/gnome 2 interface. If you want it to only make using keyboard to do everything easier, then there are awesome, xmonad and other tiling windows managers. But if you want the best of both worlds, Unity does a pretty great job at it.

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
What I’m afraid of is that newbies will install Ubuntu because of its popularity, and be put off by the Unity interface (with its annoying screenfuls of icons) and then head straight back to Windows.[/quote]

That’s why I usually suggest Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint Cinnamon and the rest to first time users. I see you’ve done the same :notworthy:

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Well, I had used Ubuntu and the first Unity iterations had me going to Xubuntu (which can be configured easily), and going back to windows, mainly because I wasnt used to the software.

Then two years ago, I began switching to Open-Source software while still using windows. After a whole year, I installed Ubuntu (with Unity desktop), and it was much easier, since the programs were basically the same I had been using for a year (except for Windows Media Player, but Totem and Rythmbox are quite good, so no problem there). At first, I thought if I didn’t like Unity I’d go for Xubuntu with Cairo Dock, but the thing is, this whole year I’ve been using Unity and I like it. The dash is pretty useful, and with the upcoming changes on 14.04 (minimize on click being the most interesting), I can’t see myself changing the window manager any time soon. Sure, I’d like a little bit of room for customization there (beyond what’s allowed with Ubuntu-tweak and Unity-tweak), but as is, Unity is getting better with each iteration.

65

It’s also worth taking a look at Linux Mint, which could be loosely described as “Ubuntu without all the bullshit”.

I’ve recently moved over to it from Xubuntu and have no complaints so far.

66

Goodness, I can’t tell you how many times I have downloaded many different variants of Linux… I usually give up and go back to Windoze. I usually have problems with devices, keyboards, wifi, printers… it is very frustrating as an almost first time user to be confronted with issues. I’d like to be able to use Linux… but it is not refined at all. I used to complain about Windoze going on the fritz from time to time… but I never had a problem I couldn’t fix somehow.

But it’s the same set of results each time I try to use Linux… all I get is errors, ugly fonts, frequent updates required, missing software, etc. The last time I installed it, I couldn’t get Firefox to start despite the install telling me Firefox was already installed. Don’t ask me which version that was… In previous installs, I couldn’t find the wireless card or the network I was on, no matter what I tried.

The current issue is that I installed Linux via Wubi, … and it doesn’t recognize the freaking wireless keyboard. Can’t tell you how frustrating that is. Now I’m a patient man, and I’m willing to work things through, esp. if I have some idea what I’m doing… but I’m sorry: Linux, for me, to date, has been a total screw-up.

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Just install the latest Ubuntu:http://www.ubuntu.com/download and run it alongside your existing operating system. It can’t hurt you or your computer.

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Hi ilikecoffee. Your post reaffirms why I think it’s important to ask a friendly guru so you can get up to speed with fewer road bumps.

The many variants of Linux - yes, confusing. I usually push newbies towards Ubuntu because it’s fairly user-friendly. In fact, I mostly use Debian myself - it works well, but requires more knowledge to set up and wouldn’t be appropriate for punters.

[quote] I usually give up and go back to Windoze. I usually have problems with devices, keyboards, wifi, printers… it is very frustrating as an almost first time user to be confronted with issues. I’d like to be able to use Linux… but it is not refined at all. I used to complain about Windoze going on the fritz from time to time… but I never had a problem I couldn’t fix somehow.

But it’s the same set of results each time I try to use Linux… all I get is errors, ugly fonts, frequent updates required, missing software, etc. The last time I installed it, I couldn’t get Firefox to start despite the install telling me Firefox was already installed. Don’t ask me which version that was… In previous installs, I couldn’t find the wireless card or the network I was on, no matter what I tried. [/quote]

Again, you could have benefited from a little assistance. “Frequent updates” - well actually, a good idea because of new security threats, and Windows updates all the time (usually without asking your permission first). We don’t install anti-virus software on Linux - it’s simply not necessary, but the updates serve much the same purpose. As for “missing software,” there are indeed some things that don’t run on Linux (Adobe Photoshop, for example) but there is almost always an equivalent (in the case of Photoshop, I use Gimp). I haven’t yet run into anything that I could have done on Windows but can’t do on Linux, however you are correct that the exact software won’t always be the same.

About “ugly fonts” - if you installed the package ubuntu-restricted-extras it pulls in all the Microsoft TrueType fonts (plus a lot of useful multimedia stuff) which can’t be included on the original install CD due to legal reasons. Printers can be problematic mostly due to the manufacturers refusing to publish their standards (to avoid patent lawsuits) which in turn makes it hard to write drivers. For that reason, I always check online to see if a particular printer I want to buy is well-covered by drivers. As a matter of fact, just two weeks ago I bought an HP Deskjet 1510 after checking that it would definitely work with Linux.

As for wifi, I’ve never had a problem with it - in fact, network stuff is one thing that seems to work better on Linux than on Windows. However, some older hardware with older versions of Linux may have been lacking wifi drivers, so I’m not saying you’re wrong.

Can’t say about the wireless keyboard - like with printers, it may be a case of the manufacturer refusing to reveal what’s in their hardware that makes it hard for developers to write a Linux driver. No great solution that I can recommend other than checking before you buy the hardware that it’s Linux compatible.

I personally don’t do Wubi - in fact, I treat Windows like a virus, something to avoid. Last computer I bought came with no operating system installed and Linux is now the sole OS. At NT$8990 with state-of-the-art hardware it was such a good deal that I’ll share the link in case anyone is interested:

tw.buy.yahoo.com/gdsale/gdpcdiy … t=gdsearch

At the end of the say, going with Linux means changing the way you work. It would be true if you were switching to Apple, or Android. However, unlike with commercial OSs, Linux users have to depend on each other for support.

cheers,
DB

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I don’t recommend Wubi. One of the things that makes Windows so terrible is it’s inefficient file systems. Using Wubi deprives you from using a modern secure file system that is also lightening fast.

It sounds like it’s been a long while since you’ve tried Linux if you had font rendering issues. As for hardware issues you described, it is due to many network card manufacturers don’t contribute to open source drivers, and that’s a result of Microsoft’s monopoly. If more people use Linux, then manufacturers would have to write open source drivers and users who purchase their hardware can use the hardware on any OS he/she chooses to. I mean isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? We purchased the hardware means we own it, and thus shouldn’t we be able to decide how we want to use it?

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I have a similar problem with Ubuntu.

I have Firefox installed but sometimes when I click on the icon in the Launcher, it’ll click like it’s loading but after a few minutes nothing. The browser doesn’t open up or anything. I click again same thing. Many times I’m forced to go to Midori to get things done.

The only thing is that Midori is very basic and doesn’t have all the cool features that I like in Firefox. The extensions, search engines, etc.

With Windows XP, if a program doesn’t load or is not responding I could always open up the taskmaster (?) manager(?), see if it’s listed as an open application, and force a close if it’s there and then re-open the application and it’ll work. I don’t even know how to do so in Ubuntu.

Though it might only be a problem with my USB flash drive and not my dual boot Ubuntu. Not certain now. Usually get frustrated and go back to Windows.

Another thing I don’t like is trying to find all the open windows in Ubuntu.

I multi-task so usually have many programs open at the same time. Many instances of Firefox windows with multiple tabs. Sometimes also the GoldenDict dictionary, CQuickTrans Chinese program, VLC media player, Foxit PDF viewer, several Wordpad files, etc. A lot of stuff.

With Windows XP, I’m able to easily find them because they’ve each got a little tab on the taskbar at the bottom of the screen.

It’s much harder looking for it on the launcher in Ubuntu. And sometimes the file isn’t even on the launcher.

Several times I’ve been listening to music on Rhythmbox and minimized the window and later tried to find it to shut it off but it’s not in the launcher. I don’t know if it’s because rhythmbox isn’t a program I haven’t pinned or what, but, it’s not there. I have to open that search icon at the upper left to type out rhythmbox to find it.

I also don’t like that the title bar thing at the top sometimes is not there when a program is open. Difficult to explain.

That said, I’ve been trying out Linux Mint and am quite enjoying it. It has the little tabs on the bottom showing me what applications and files are open and it’s the most like Windows XP of the Linuxes I’ve tried so far. Has a start menu close to but not quite like XP’s. More like Win 7. Certainly better than Windows 8 when it didn’t have any. Windows 8.1 upgrade was a total waste. Several hours to upgrade and all it did was bring back the start menu. Which I already had from a download at iobit. And also one I got from HP as an update.

Right now I’m downloading a torrent using the included torrent program Transmission. Very minimalist but seems to be getting the job done.

I’m thinking of adding Mint so it’ll be a triple boot with my XP/Ubuntu system.

Will the Linux Mint DVD do it automatically or will I need to partition the drive before I do it?

And do I really need to backup the hard drive before doing the install? Such a hassle doing backup.

I did the dual boot a while back when I replaced the original hard drive in my PC so forgot everything I did back then. My Ubuntu partition is 180 GB so I could reduce that to add Linux Mint.

What would be a good size partition for for any Linux install? Not just Mint? The operating system and some of the essential application programs?

What are some of the most essential applications for Linux?

Is there a better pdf viewer than the included document viewer?

And how would I update the Ubuntu when the new long term release comes out?

Is there an easy was to install and uninstall multi-boots? Sometimes its better to do a full install than to run off the CD or flash drive. To get a better idea of how the operating system really performs at it’s best not while it has to keep going back and forth between the flash drive or cd/dvd.

Kobo.

Edit: Oh, and I really like that all the minimize window, restore window, and close window buttons are on the right side like they’re supposed to be. I just hate that with Mac OS & Linux. I keep trying to close stuff on the right and then have to search and then do it on the left. :slight_smile:

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It should do the Right Thing if you have some unpartitioned space.

No, you don’t need to, so long as you’re careful if you do the partitioning manually.

The base install is under 10G but you should probably have say 50 to be on the safe side. A good practice is to mount /home on a separate partition (for one thing, when you switch between Linuxes you can keep the same /home). Add a swap partition too (the same size as your RAM is common)

Depends what you’re doing. For me the desktop basics are Chrome, VLC, Gimp, and … that’s about it. And then a whole bunch of programming stuff.

Chrome is a pretty good PDF viewer these days. If you have complex PDFs or need identical rendering there’s also an official Acrobat viewer for linux.

You’ll get prompted to do so.

Not sure I understand the question.

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If you think that’s cool, did you know that holding down “Alt” lets you move windows by clicking on them anywhere, and resize them by right-clicking on them anywhere? (it’ll grab the nearest edge or corner)

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It should do the Right Thing if you have some unpartitioned space.
[/quote]

I always do manual partitioning myself. In general, a swap partition of about 4 gigabytes (but 1 gig will do if you’re space-constrained). You need a root partition, signified by just the forward slash / character. A separate /home partition (which is where all your user data resides) isn’t absolutely necessary, but the main advantage is that if you want to completely reinstall Linux, you can do so and your data will remain untouched. However, I don’t agree with the idea of putting multiple Linuxes on one computer even though they can share the same /home directory. Yes, you can do that, but it’s mostly a waste of time unless you like to experiment - find the distro you like, and stick with it. And if you want to experiment with numerous distros, you could run them first from USB thumb drives and then decide which one you’d like to install as your permanent system.

[quote]And do I really need to backup the hard drive before doing the install? Such a hassle doing backup.

No, you don’t need to, so long as you’re careful if you do the partitioning manually.
[/quote]

Well, you should certainly have a backup of your data even if you don’t back up the Windows system itself. In fact, you should be backing up your data periodically if it’s valuable to you. A lot of people don’t do that, and live to regret it.

This brings me to one of my favorite rants against Windows, the difficulty of backup. With Linux, all user data resides in one place, the /home directory. That makes it very easy to do backups - you copy /home to an external USB hard drive (or to a DVD-R if it will fit) and that’s it. With Windows, on the other hand, your data can be scattered all over your hard drive. Maybe your Word documents reside in C:\system\MS_Office\Documents and your Photoshop files in D:\Adobe\Photoshop\ and your multimedia stuff in E:\Realplayer, etc, etc. Good luck at backing that mess up. I don’t know if any of that has changed in recent iterations of Windows, because I haven’t used Windows for years, but this was one of the big reasons I went to Linux in the first place.

There is really no compelling reason to backup the Linux system itself. If for some reason it gets borked, you can reinstall, made especially easy by the fact that you can download (for free) the latest system install disk. Such is not the case with Windows - it’s rare these days for a computer to come with a boxed Windows CD. When you get a new computer with Windows pre-installed, you have to create your own backup disk, something that few people do. Lacking such a disk, if Windows goes down in flames, you are faced with having to purchase a new copy at full retail price. Even if you were diligent enough to create a backup copy at the time you purchased the computer, it will be an old copy - that is to say, a machine purchased five years ago will have 5-year-old Windows. You don’t get to download the latest version of Windows for free as you can in Linux. And if you just reinstalled 5-years-old Windows, you also need to reinstall 5 years worth of security updates.

[quote]What are some of the most essential applications for Linux?

Depends what you’re doing. For me the desktop basics are Chrome, VLC, Gimp, and … that’s about it. And then a whole bunch of programming stuff.
[/quote]

Agreed, everyone’s needs are different. You should tell us what you want to do, and we can recommend some programs. Here’s a few I find very useful:

evince - PDF viewing
geeqie - image viewing
gimp - image editor
chrome - web browsing
firefox - web browsing
vlc - movie playing
aegisub - movie subtitle editor
clementine - mp3 playing
asunder - music CD ripper
k3b - CD/DVD burner
unetbootin - create bootable USB sticks from ISO images
krusader - great file manager
gworldclock - world time
ksnapshot - screen shot creator
gftp - upload stuff to your web site
libreoffice - office suite
kcharselect - input rarely used symbols and characters
calibre, fbreader - ebook readers

If you want to run Chinese on your computer, let us know - there are some specific programs for inputting Chinese text and converting Chinese big5/gb text to utf-8 format. There are some Zhuyin fonts available that you would need to download and install separately if you want them.

74

If only there was a Linux version of Dr. Eye (it does NOT work with Wine). I would also need to run Microsoft Office because of all my macros (it would be very difficult to convert them to the clunky macro languages used by Libre Office) and formatting compatibility concerns, especially tables, which get messed up by Libre Office Writer.

If I could do those things, I could convert to Linux.

75

[quote=“Chris”]If only there was a Linux version of Dr. Eye (it does NOT work with Wine). I would also need to run Microsoft Office because of all my macros (it would be very difficult to convert them to the clunky macro languages used by Libre Office) and formatting compatibility concerns, especially tables, which get messed up by Libre Office Writer.

If I could do those things, I could convert to Linux.[/quote]

Microsoft Office runs fine under wine, and you can run XP inside a virtualbox, and it would be shielded from future attacks, plus it will probably run faster than it would natively.

10 Things to do after installing Ubuntu 14.04 LTS

webupd8.org/2014/04/10-thing … buntu.html

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If you choose to go with Lubuntu, but for some unknown reason prefer the look of Windows XP, you can consider installing this theme:

omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/wind … me-lubuntu

for those who never could stand XP themes to begin with, aside from Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu, Mint and other distrobutions we’ve mentioned, you can also check out elementary OS.

elementaryos.org/

It is also based on Ubuntu, but is aimed to provide smooth and elegant user interface. Their current release is called Luna, which is based on Ubuntu 12.04, you can wait for their next release, Isis, which will be based on Ubuntu 14.04.

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XP support ending - move to Linux?

No. Just move to Windows 7. It’s XP improved.

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[quote=“k.k.”]XP support ending - move to Linux?

No. Just move to Windows 7. It’s XP improved.[/quote]

I think the key feature of Windows is stagnant in windows 7, improvement is only seen in Windows 8

it does look much better

79

Interesting. Perhaps buy a pc with no OS and install mint! Willing to try… again.

80

[quote=“k.k.”]XP support ending - move to Linux?

No. Just move to Windows 7. It’s XP improved.[/quote]
Windows 7 is the best version of Windows so far. XP is quite clunky in comparison.