Yangmingshan:Paradise or Lonely,Isolated,Suicidal Existence?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

You’re right about defining “downtown”. Mine is probably a very US definition but I’ve seen it abroad. So you’re walking or riding around and BOOM! there’s downtown. It’s all sparkly and lit up. It has great restaurants and shops and hotels and if you didn’t know better, you could be in Chicago, NYC, Rome, Paris or London. It’s got an amazing energy because there are theatres and museums and art galleries. You’re also right on when you say you see a bunch of foreigners. You’ve got the expats and the tourists and they are waaaaaaay noticeable. There are clubs and cool people as well as your run of the mill bum. There’s great housing if you can afford it. Oh, yeah, there also just happens to be a really great school that you can send your kids to and it’s within walking distance of your highly desirable walk-up brownstone. After you drop them off, you meet up with all of your cool, interesting and witty friends at a cafe to decide whether you’re going to workout or just head straight to the film festival or hiking trail.

So, tell me, all of you experienced Taipei people, I’m kidding myself thinking that I’m going to find that, right? It’s OK, I’m up for it being different from what I’m used to. I mean, hell, I’ve lived in BELGIUM!

Of course, if there IS someplace that fits the description above don’t keep it to yourselves.

One more thing: that black, fuzzy mold issue is kind of freaky…

22

I guess I have a more localized version of downtown. A KTV, nightmarket and a 7/11 is always an equation for a good time. :smiley:

I don’t go to Tianmu much, but I know there’s a Warner theater, a baseball stadium and two or three big malls are bunched together somewhere. That seems like a downtownish area. The 101 area seems downtownish, as does Taipei Mainstation. I pretty sure that’s three different locations within Taipei city that most people would categorize as being “downtown” (or downtownish.)

23

Does “Taipei City” incorporate all of the districts?

24

Yes.

25

Taipei City does incoporate 12 districts, including Shilin and Beitou which include areas of Yangming Shan.

Downtown is probably best defined as the area between the rivers but as mentioned by others there is no downtown as such, instead you have several areas with “downtown features”, Xinyi being the newest and probably hippest one. The historical center is around the Main Station / Ximending.

26

i dont really agree with the definition you guys give of downtown taipei even though it’s quite true that each district has its own ‘heart’ and “downtown features”. you seem to forget the business aspect of things. shilin, tianmu, yanminshan districts in particular arent geographically downtown, they look more like suburbs to me. when i mentioned long xing park and said it’s ‘more downtown’, that’s because it’s close to all these companies, offices and the local airport. i grew up in paris, even da-zhi was too ‘suburbian’ for me.

meow, if you can choose, go for shanghai. don’t even think twice… :smiley:

27

Why, 5566? I hear the people in Taiwan are friendly. Shanghai people CAN be friendly but definitely have an edge. I guess it’s like the difference between the feel you get from people in NYC vs. say, Appleton, Wisconsin.

28

Meow

Taipei does not have a downtown anything like what you are describing. East Taipei (roughly Daan Park to Taipei101) is definitely the most trendy part of Taipei. It’s packed with restaurants, bars, shopping, and beautiful people. The university district on the other side of the park is also crawling with a somewhat more arty version of the same thing. If you want to feel like you are in the heart of things, choose one of these neighborhoods, but they are not downtowns in the sense that you mean.

Tianmu, Shilin, and Dazhi are definitely urban by North American standards but are more sedate and spacious than central Taipei. Yangmingshan is beautiful but involves constant commuting in and out of the city.

Taipei is a bit provincial and not very international but is one of East Asia’s best-kept secrets. I think it’s much more livable than Shanghai because you have great access to the outdoors and a much better cultural life. Shanghai on the other hand is the place to be if you are young and ambitious. Its foreign community is also much larger, much wealthier, and much more sophisticated than Taipei’s.

I think the Taipei Comunity Center’s guide to living in Taipei might be a big help for you as would the parent forum at ParentPages.net. You should also pick up a copy of the Lonely Planet guide to Taiwan co-authored by Forumosa’s very own Mucha Man. Michael Turton, in addition to his View From Taiwan, has also set up a resource guide for people thinking about moving to Taiwan that you might find useful reading. Some of the problems Michael describes are less serious in Tianmu/Yangmingshan, which is why people choose to live in those places. Michael’s views may seem overly-critical at times, but beneath the fearsome visage lurks a heart that loves Taiwan warts and all.

Good luck!

29

meow: Make your husband take a taxi, drive, or take a car and driver to XinYi area everyday. You and the kids should be comfortable. The traffic is not that bad in Taipei and he will learn the quickest way to get to work. I don’t commute, but I live in Tienmu and it takes between 20-35 minutes depending on traffic. In the morning rush, the MOST it would take is about 45 minutes. There is a subway in TienMu too which he can take and just needs to change trains once and it takes him right to the XinYi area.

People live in YangMingShan so that they can live in a BIG house with a yard and a view of TienMu or even a XinYi view depending on which side of the ridge you live on. YangMingShan is The Peak of Taipei, the Beverly Hills if you will. However, TienMu is a close second and perhaps a favorite and first on most people’s lists. As for the European school, aren’t they building a new campus or something? Is it in TienMu or ShiLin? Anyway, you may be surprised to find out that the American School would be a better choice for you. Talk to more people first. In terms of lots of Chinese faces, well most of them are about as American as you can get, right down to their passports and the pledge of allegiance to the flag. I have talked to a few parents about TAS and they claim it is the better of the two schools, but tour both and seek as many opinions as you can before you make the choice. Their kids were in the elementary school which they told me was head and shoulders above the European elementary school in terms of facilities and academics and teachers. Maybe the high school is a different situation.

You should also check out the American club for your leisure time, that is nearby and a nice oasis and decent club, loads of your childrens classmates will be there too. BTW, you can also live halfway up the mountain and still be in TienMu. Try Dong Shan Rd. for nice American size houses with views and yards. It is halfway up the moutain, but I think that the European school is closer to the beginning of Yang De Blvd. than where Dong Shan intersects it, so maybe you can live at the base of Yang De Blvd, between the top of YMS and TienMu, or try Jasper Villas, it has the best location in TienMu, but you might need one of their biggest ones then the price would be similar ot the big houses on Dong Shan Rd. Try the real estate agency mtr.com.tw they have best houses available for expats. Anyway, if you live in TienMu, I think the longest the bus could be up to European school is about 15-20 minutes, even in rush hour. It really is literally right next to TienMu.

30

Muchas Gracias. I will check out the community center info as well as the other links and the real estate guides. I’m keeping an open mind about TAS-just doing that mother thing of seeking the best fit for the kids.I’m assuming that if they went to TES their transcripts would be readily accepted by American high schools/universities???
We go on Sunday and I am beyond grateful for the time you all put into giving me such detailed information. It’s exactly the kind of info I need since I don’t know the lay of the land.

I’m getting the feeling it’ll be a lot different than Texas…

31

Actually, I think that if you put your kids in local schools, the transcripts and the like will also be accepted by American high schools and universities. Taiwanese kids go to the states all the time for high school and college, and you can get English transcripts etc. On the other hand, your kids will probably kill you if you did this, so…

Most TAS grads go to universities (often elite ones) in the US. It’s said to be a very good school indeed, which it should be, given the price tag. Anyway I’m sure TAS transcripts are accepted.

Yeah, it’s going to be way different.

32

Yeah, the oldest one is already contemplating killing us for even thinking about going…I’ve got to take that into consideration as well. They seem to get to a certain age and they just aren’t as “portable” as they used to be.

I’m hoping I can stay focused enough to gather the information I’m looking for about life/school/work there and still have some fun. I gotta have some fun!

33

That shouldn’t be a problem…come to a Forumosa Happy Hour or go to a Muddy Basin Ramblers show.

34

not many african americans in tas but there are people from all over the world there, the student body is weighted towards taiwanese americans but still is nothing if not diverse. if you go i doubt you’ll regret it. my daughter loves it.

35

I guess I’m going to Taiwan and Shanghai with this expectation of being stared at a lot of the time. Don’t know if that will be the case but I’ve heard from other non-Taiwanese/non-Chinese people that it’s relatively common. Not hateful, why are you here kind of staring but staring out of curiousity…though that amounts to staring nonetheless.

If there is a lot of staring then our family would probably be good candidates for it. My husband is half Black and half Japanese, I’m half Black and half White, our kids tend toward the Polynesian. It’s with all of this in mind that my heart sinks (and my fists go up) when I think of dropping my kids off at a school with minimal racial diversity. I’m also wondering how many of the Taiwanese kids are American just because they were born in the US and therefore get to hold US passports but haven’t really spent significant time growing up in US culture. I don’t care about the race of the kids,Asian, White, Black, Puerto Rican, whatever, I was just hoping for kids with considerable, first-hand exposure to American culture so there is a feeling of familiarity for my kids when they attend. Without that, it’s like joining the Taipei American club and most of the other members hold US passports but have spent most of their lives in Taiwan and strongly identify with Taiwanese culture.

I’ve also had a few really crappy experiences with Chinese and Vietnamese people who have only recently arrived in the US and are apparently under the impression that it’s like 1965 or even 1936 and Black/Brown people (who have been in America for generation upon generation) are still expected to sit on the back of the bus. That kind of b.s. leaves an impression on you.

Didn’t mean to get too heavy :s I’m making the trip in spite of all of this because it could be one of the best experiences of our lives and I owe it to the kids to check it out…

36

[quote=“meow”]

Didn’t mean to get too heavy :s I’m making the trip in spite of all of this because it could be one of the best experiences of our lives and I owe it to the kids to check it out…[/quote]

it’s heavy stuff, as we say back home “whattchagonnado”

just in case my message was lost in this bottle of wine clear TAS is really diverse. i can’t see too many schools in the us being more diverse outside of manhattan or something.

most of the kids there have spent considerable time in the us or canada. it feels like the us, a really really asian, occasionally rich ass%#$@ part of the us but the us nonetheless.

from what you say your kids would be relatively unique there, in another sense they won’t be because there are more than a few kids from other relatively unique backgrounds. i guess there could be advantages and disadvantages to that esp around high school time :slight_smile:

37

Yanmingshan to Xinyi, 25 mins by car. I lived on the mountain for 18 months. Feel free to pm me for any specific questions you have.

38

will do. thanks. expecting to have many questions that I either forgot to ask or didn’t think of asking while I was there. is xinyi TO yangmingshan considered going AGAINST the traffic flow during rush hour?

39

The traffic hold-up is Neihu. The drive to/from Xinyi can mostly be done on over-passes/ fly-overs, but Neihu is gonna slow you down.
Also, Friday night, going down the mountain is a nightmare, similarly going up it on a sunday night is a headache. People in Taiwan live in one place but work in another. The weekend exodus and return are a hassle for getting up and down the mountain. Especially as there are some boarding schools on the mountain, so there are some peak flows, but they can be avoided.

40

Meow, I’ve lived in both Taipei (4 years) and Shanghai (3 years and counting). If you are considering lifestyle factors, have kids, and have any choice in the matter then I’d go for Taipei over Shanghai. No question.

There is a wealth of stuff to do in Taipei, including stuff for kids to do. Near the American School you have a whole mountain to explore. Plus downtown Taipei is easy and safe for kids to get around on the excellent subway system and they can find plenty more to occupy them there (parks, cinemas, cafes, nightmarkets, Internet cafes, bookshops, galleries, libraries, etc.).

Shanghai offers little besides shopping, pubs, restaurants, KTV and dodgy massage parlours. There really is not much for kids to do. It is a safe enough city in terms of crime, but you do need to watch out for scam artists and the dangerous traffic. The kids at the expat schools mostly seem to congregate in Starbucks for lack of other places to go. There are companies that organize activities targeting those kids (tennis lessons, rock climbing etc). But it seems your options for spontaneously doing stuff are a little limited.

Shanghai also becomes a complete nightmare to get around at times. On busy evenings you can fight in the street for an hour or more just to get a taxi. The buses are crowded, uncomfortable, a prime place to get pickpocked, and you need to read Chinese to use them. The subway is easy to use and a little more comfortable but it is more for ferrying commuters into the central city and back out again than for getting around town (i.e. it doesn’t go to that many places in the city center, and simply doesn’t service the expat dominated suburbs - Jinqiao and Gubei).

The locals in Shanghai are also rather colder and less friendly than the Taiwanese.

On the other hand one advantage of Shanghai is the amazing opportunities for travel around China. You are within easy reach of some great places. However, ‘easy reach’ mostly means hopping on a plane for a couple of hours, or taking an overnight train. The area reachable on day trips (or overnight trips) from Shanghai is mostly heavily industrialized and featureless countryside and doesn’t offer alot.

To me Shanghai is the type of place that impresses alot at first glance but below the surface it is frustrating and doesn’t offer alot. Taiwan can disappoint you on the surface, but as you stay longer you find there is alot to like.