There’s obviously difference is what type of yelling is done and what for. If it’s for every little thing, no I don’t agree. If it’s yelling abusive things like “you’re a dumb fuck!” Of course no. But there’s probably real scenarios where raising your voice to get your point across is needed. Perhaps it’s not the best way but not everyone has a patience of a monk and good with kids like marry poppins. Parents are human. And some discipline is far better than no discipline which many parents are guilty of.
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I agree, but it’s the length of the disciplining that stands out in Taiwan.
Some adults still apologise to their mother for her choice to give birth to them. Decades after the event.
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My mom yelled at me when I was irresponsible or disrespected her or otherwise behaved poorly while knowing better. Scary Asian mom style.
But honestly? I think I kind of needed it. I think she should’ve whooped my ass more, too, but her own mother put a stop to that. Instead I put in a lot of hours kneeling facing the corner.
I don’t think children should be yelled at excessively or physically disciplined. I’m actually pretty against it. But I have to say, I responded to this type of punishment. She used it to put the fear in me, and to shame me. And for a child with a proud and combative personality, that really worked.
Well at least they didn’t change that.
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That’s the thing! I think they did a good job. If you want to parent well, you’ve got to understand your child’s personality and figure out how to work with it. You can’t change everything about your kid, and our personalities are more or less established pretty early on.
I’m sure she would have parented me differently had I been more mild-mannered by nature. But she knew what she was dealing with.
After having taught English in Taiwan and Japan for years and later been a parent, I’m convinced that yelling is not necessary in disciplining children. It’s a lazy shortcut for those who don’t make the effort to understand that a parent should (a) first explain why the bad behavior is not OK (most parents underestimate the capacity of young children to understand and respond to a sincere explanation); and (b) parents can create non-yelling, non-corporeal punishment consequences for a child (time outs, etc.) that will present an effective incentive for that child to make a decision to not act out; and © parents needs to create a positive home environment so a child doesn’t grow up feeling the need to take out a lack of self-respect on others around him or her.
In Taiwan with relatives’ kids I’ve seen time and time again this yelling because the parents were too lazy to figure it out. And then my wife and I stepped in, told the kids firmly why that behavior had to stop, gave them positive reinforcement to build them up, and then the bad behavior stopped. Plus years later our relationship with those kids is great.
I think you see this yelling in schools here for the same reason that parents do it - it’s the easy way out, they think it shows they are in control (even though it shows the opposite), and it’s their chosen way to deal with stress.
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How did the parents take your interventions?
They were embarrassed, and they and other relatives laughed about how the kids were happier and quieter. But at that point we were thinking what would be in the kids’ best interest, anyway, and had lost patience with their parents. It also helped that other relatives, and most importantly the grandparents, believed that the parents’ authority had already been nearly broken by their kids just running roughshod them.
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@Scupper well said. Agree with you 100% +
What you stated about…
…is spot on! Take the context of “parents” and swap it for “teachers” and you get the same desirable environment for teaching and raising children. Only now instead of positively influencing a couple of children, the teacher influences dozens upon dozens of children in a very positive way that is not only conducive to learning but also developing self esteem and good personalities.
Yelling, shouting and berating is the lazy way out or the only thing an inexperienced or untrained teacher knows how to do.
We, as a society and in our family lives, can and must do better.
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I think in 99% percent of circumstances, yelling or raising your voice in not needed and there are better options. But realistically, most of us have limits on patience even with our own kids and are just human with real life circumstances. It’s probably not going to do much damage here and there.
Corporal punishment is another story. I don’t think I could punish my kids by hitting them. My dad and teachers did that to me. It didn’t do anything for me in school. Most kids I remember either reacted 2 different ways. Some kids cried and was so fearful that they obeyed to the dot. Me, I just didn’t care. Just made me angry and I would just ditch school if I knew it was coming anyways.
It’s cyclic. I was shouted at and physically punished when I was a kid. I want to do better by my kid but when he acts up (and I really might be expecting too much of him since he’s only six) I reach into the parenting toolbox my father left me and I find it’s full of useless, hateful shit like “Stop crying or I’ll give you a reason to cry”. It is so incredibly hard to find an alternative because I never had the role-modeling and my first instinct is to yell. Which as has been noted, doesn’t work and doesn’t produce the real result I want. Not to mention it basically perpetuates the behavior because my son will internalize it and it’ll become his toolbox when he has kids.
I’m trying really hard to do things differently but even though he’s the most important thing in my life - and I only have the one child! - it’s still very hard.
I imagine the teachers in Taiwan had similar role modeling when they were young and they don’t have the motivation to change the built-in behavior that’s been programmed into them since they were young. They’re just perpetuating their own cycle.
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This is, my biggest fear of ever having children. All the men in my family are the stereotypical hard and stoic silent types that don’t show emotions. It still affects the core of every relationship I have with people. That keep your emotions inside and be a man and keep moving forward attitude. Although I think there is some value in that, you should have mental fortitude and an attitude of overcoming hardship. But one can also open up and ask for help.
Things like physical touch is also hard for me. My father never did anything like hug me or even a simple high five of encouragement. It freaks me out and I react defensively towards uninstigated physical contact. It’s really uncomfortable. Words of encouragement also make me uncomfortable, I’m so used to someone pushing me. I think that’s why I could excel in sports where I react well to it as motivation.
If I ever have a kid, I hope to not create an environment like that.
One thing that I think helped me was coaching kids myself. It helped me find ways to motive different kids in different ways. Plus seeing how some of the parents act allowed me to really see how not to parent. I had parents that for whatever reason hired me and would just coach from the side thinking they know better.
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Ironically it is way more brave to be able to ask for help. No one benefits from a loved one cracking.
Same. For me I suspect making friends who come from more conventionally affectionate families have been the biggest helping factor in (gradually) getting me out of my shell.
Ditto
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The good news is that you can overcome your programming. It just isn’t easy and it takes work and a spouse who’s understanding and doesn’t have the same problems.
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You worry too much.
You don’t have to repeat the parental behavior of the previous generation. You’re not them. You’re aware of what was lacking from your parents in your own development, and I’m sure if you have kids one day you’ll make sure you don’t repeat those mistakes. I respect and love my parents, but they were far from perfect. In my own parenting, I try to pass on the best parts of how they raised me and discard the shitty aspects (for example: no marital fights or arguments in front of my daughter).
The fact you’re aware of this possibility, means you won’t.
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You want answers about rare imported items that are flavored!
Not true at all, just because a person is aware of something they are doing doesn’t stop them doing it. It may help but saying it won’t happen again just because a person is aware is just PC nonsense
“PC nonsense” from the guy who claimed the word “blacklist” was racist? Lol okay.
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That’s what my folks always told me so…
So you ARE just trolling for a reaction? Well played, then. 