I personally dont think Chen has a ‘lets go to war’ attitude at all. He may anti-unification but that doesnt = war time…
I am 3rd generation German. If Germany was threatening to invade Australia and make it German, I sure as hell would be pretty p1ssed. I can full yunderstand why Chen and pro-independence types feel the way they do. As for the Blues - a couple of foreign passports make the flight out of Taiwan pretty easy should war start.
what “lets start a war stance”…absolute bollocks (well you were waitng for a flame after all!)…the guy is literally bending over backwards to be conciliatory towards china and the more hardcore WSR types giving him grief…god if i was president then you’d see some “let’s start a war…fuck you china” rhetoric 
i think personally post-election no side taking decision is necessary…there is only the sane and the insane, the mature and the childish and we all know which sides go with which adjectives…you would have to have a very weak grip on reality to even consider supporting weasel lien chan and his sad partner in crime jimmy song…i only hope the KMT can do the right thing and get rid of lien so taiwan can have a mature opposition force to keep chen honest…but it’s seems unlikely somehow…
[quote=“ac_dropout”]Yet when Commies do come, first thing every foreigner on this board will be doing is looking for their passport and getting off the island.
[/quote]
Not me. I am going to stick around to watch as the mainland betrays the pro-PRC dupes in Taiwan, assumes power for itself, then shoots the mainlanders when they complain. I’ll laugh my head off.
Vorkosigan
[quote]Not me. I am going to stick around to watch as the mainland betrays the pro-PRC dupes in Taiwan, assumes power for itself, then shoots the mainlanders when they complain. I’ll laugh my head off.
[/quote]
This, to me, is one of the strangest things of all and hasn’t really been discussed much.
Seems to me that should an invasion occur and be successful, what would happen to the average Taiwanese, other than the yoke of communism? Not a lot, really, for the little people. It would be a lot different to these so-called pro-blue “elite” – they seem to think (although I don’t know, as I haven’t seen this discussed) that they would be the shining boys who kept Taiwan in trust or something, when in fact its almost certain that they’d be the very ones who’d see their jobs, etc. taken from them and given to communist cadres.
You’re assuming an invasion, instead of a peaceful reunification. Not even th extremists in the New Party are pro-invasion are they?
The reunification path works nicely for the KMT because the PRC will commit to not interfering in Taiwan’s internal politics … of course they’ll have to ban fringe parties (like the DPP & TSU) who advocate anti-China sentiments, but apart from that there will continue to be free and fair elections. Taiwan reverts to a 1-party state, KMT gets control of Taiwan (with the occassional 2-28 riot thrown in), PRC gets control of KMT, everyone’s happy!
You mean for what? 50 years? Like in Hong Kong? Why am I not placated by that thought? 
I am not sure I understand the idea of free and fair election where parties representing 50% of political opinion are banned. Please do elucidate.
I am not sure I understand the idea of free and fair election where parties representing 50% of political opinion are banned. Please do elucidate.[/quote]
I think the poor fellow was trying to be sarcastic. (Give and take the odd 2-28 can’t possible be anything but a jibe at the KMT/Commies).
The poor fellow was clearly failing too. It seems that this forum has officially entered the ‘ac_dropout’ era, where peoples sarcasm-detectors have either burnt out or been set to ‘sledgehammer’ level 
To be clear: I do not believe the DPP or the TSU to be ‘fringe’ parties, I would not trust China if it said it wouldn’t interfere, I would not consider elections without the DPP/TSU to be ‘free’, I would not be happy for Taiwan to return to 1-party rule, nor would I consider a rerun of Feb28 to be a good thing. I’m sorry if this stance is a bit too controversial for some of you …
The United States, the PRC, and most other countries in the world have continually stressed, over the past ten or more years, and with increasing vigor during the recent Taiwan elections that Taiwan is not an independent country.
That is clear enough . . . . . . but why do you keep saying that Taiwan has a status that it clearly doesn’t have?? Do you have a screw loose or something . . . . . ?
To get to the point here, what really gets my goat is all the people who continually speak up loudly inside Taiwan stressing that “Taiwan is an independent country” . . . . . . . if you want to stress this point of view, why don’t you go overseas, to North America and Europe???
I am sure that President Chen and his advisors would give be willing to give you NT$ 100,000 for every country’s government you could convince!! That sure beats teaching English . . . . .
Being an independent country and being recognized as an independent country are two discrete matters. They are not mutually interchangeable.
I wouldn’t trust China if it said that 2+2=4…
Oh, and btw undertaker, Taiwan is an independant country. This fact doesn’t hinge on your acceptance. Do you know what ‘de facto’ means?
Being an independent country and being recognized as an independent country are two discrete matters. They are not mutually interchangeable.[/quote]
discrete? think da boss means distinct somehow 
in fact de facto taiwan is recognised as independent (ie a sovereign nation-state) by the entire planet except PRC…thats why we have such things as passports, visa’s, Custom’s regulations, reciprocal trade agreements, etc, etc … generally acknowledged as the trappings of a sovereign nation what?
[quote=“david”]The poor fellow was clearly failing too. It seems that this forum has officially entered the ‘ac_dropout’ era, where peoples sarcasm-detectors have either burnt out or been set to ‘sledgehammer’ level
To be clear: I do not believe the DPP or the TSU to be ‘fringe’ parties, I would not trust China if it said it wouldn’t interfere, I would not consider elections without the DPP/TSU to be ‘free’, I would not be happy for Taiwan to return to 1-party rule, nor would I consider a rerun of Feb28 to be a good thing. I’m sorry if this stance is a bit too controversial for some of you …[/quote]
What is this? I don’t think Sandman and I are the dumbest beasts on this thread and if we don’t get the “irony” then it’s not so obvious.
Actually, I don’t really understand why you don’t just write exactly what you mean rather than the opposite of what you mean with a “nod, nod, wink, wink” to imply this isn’t really what you stand for.
I would also avoid irony if only because it is something that Chinese culture doesn’t handle very well; there’s a strong likelihood of being taken literally.
As for your stance being “too controversial” I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Some more of this sophisticated irony is it?
And now I guess I had better shut up before I have to flounder myself for being off topic.
i’m always missing sarcastic tones in posts on this forum…the problem is if you are not familiar with a posters stance you read the post literally (and why not?) without knowing that david is prolly a rabid pro-independence nut! i suggest a sarcasm smiley be added and used when ever necessary…save a lot of wasted spleen
That’s right – you only need to check your history. The difference between authoritarians and normal people is that normal people shoot their enemies. Authoritarians need their enemies; it’s their friends who are dangerous to them because they want a piece of the action.
Vorkosigan
That’s ridiculous. Lots of us have done so in North America (I worked for the independence movement there for a couple of years). I don’t know if Taiwan is an independent country, but I don’t see why, logically, I should have to move away if I think so.
Vorkosigan
discrete? think da boss means distinct somehow [/quote]
I’m pretty sure my usage is correct. 
The United States, the PRC, and most other countries in the world have continually stressed, over the past ten or more years, and with increasing vigor during the recent Taiwan elections that Taiwan is not an independent country.
That is clear enough . . . . . . but why do you keep saying that Taiwan has a status that it clearly doesn’t have?? Do you have a screw loose or something . . . . . ?
To get to the point here, what really gets my goat is all the people who continually speak up loudly inside Taiwan stressing that “Taiwan is an independent country” . . . . . . . if you want to stress this point of view, why don’t you go overseas, to North America and Europe???
I am sure that President Chen and his advisors would give be willing to give you NT$ 100,000 for every country’s government you could convince!! That sure beats teaching English . . . . .[/quote]
So… What you’re saying is, Taiwan is not independent simply because China and the US said so…
What if Maoman and I declare that you aren’t really Undertaker…would that simple delcaration make you cease to be Undertaker? Please explain your logic here… :s
I still Lien and Soong assume if the Mainland takes over Taiwan means they will rule not only Taiwan but China as well. (this is still in the KMT constitution right?). But as was discussed they will get bugger all…