Yet Another Useless Survey - Night Markets

I think you’re confusing an admirable desire to champion the country you have chosen to live in with an objective observation.

Sure, you can eat cheap shitty food anywhere in the world. So why would you travel around the globe to do it here? The fact that you like living in Taiwan, or the fact that I like living in Taiwan, doesn’t change the fact that night markets are not an attraction for most of us.

There are other, far more exciting ways to spend your time than going to night markets. But Taiwanese people seem to universally believe that they are a major draw, a tourist resource to be nurtured and developed. And then they create surveys which are designed to make us agree with them.

I started [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/yet-another-useless-survey-night-markets/66950/1 thread[/url] in a fit of pique last night after encountering yet another survey about Taiwan that asked the wrong questions.

It reminded me of the time I was surveyed in a pub by someone who asked, among other things, “when you recommend Taiwan as a tourist destination, is it because of a, b, c, d, e, etc.?” I replied that Taiwan is a great place to live, but I would never recommend it as a tourist destination, so the question was changed to “if your friends are visiting you, what do you like to do?” I settled for “d. the beach” with the caveat that the beaches are filthy and it’s really annoying that you can’t swim without some retard screaming at you to get out of the water.

A few weeks later, I saw a “news” article about the survey. Apparently, 2/3 of foreigners in Taiwan recommended that their friends visit Taiwan because of the great beaches! And so the government continued to make policy on the basis of wishful thinking supported by dodgy questionnaires.

Anyway, I believe that if you’re going to complain about what you get, you should be able to explain clearly what you would prefer instead. I don’t really care enough to spend a lot of time helping someone re-design their homework, so I thought I would throw the question open to the combined intellectual might of 24386 registered forumosans.

If you were designing a survey to find out what “foreigners” think about night markets in Taiwan, and what policies should be implemented to improve things, what information would you collect?

I’ll start: Who are these foreigners and why do you care? ie is your survey aimed at people flying here from far far away for a short trip, and what makes you think these people really exist? You need to gather some demographic data about the respondents, in order to find out whether people do in fact take short trips to Taiwan to eat in night markets.

Not sure what to make of the New and Improved Angry Loretta.

Anyway, night markets are a major draw. Perhaps not so much for Westerners, but definitely for Taiwanese, Chinese and probably other Asians also. That’s where their tourism market is. So what if they’re clueless about what Westerners want or how they think? I’m not so sure the average tourism survey in any Western nation would have a clue what Taiwanese tourists want either because the average tourist in such Western countries is a domestic tourist or from a neighbouring Western nation. It’s not like if they handed out surveys to Taiwanese or Chinese tourists in downtown Berlin, Toronto or Sydney and the respondents wrote that they’d like to turn those places into giant shitholes (or at least how people in this thread describe night markets) that the locals would understand, let alone comply. Obviously, tourism operators in Australia, at least, have no fucking clue what Asians want on a holiday because every time I go there I see huge tour groups run by Asians in a very Asian way, probably operated out of Asia.

Yeah, it’s a daft way of conducting a survey and a daft set of assumptions, but Taiwan doesn’t have a monopoly on such things. A bureaucrat has told a lesser bureaucrat to make a survey to increase Western tourism, not really knowing why, and not really actually giving a shit because 1) Westerners are a tiny amount of the market, and everyone knows it; 2) they don’t actually intend to change Taiwan for someone else. The lesser bureaucrat has then had to go through the motions of creating this thing, with no real understanding of it, but more importantly, with zero incentive to spend a lot of time and effort making something super-duper. Again, Taiwan doesn’t have a monopoly on such bureaucracy.

As far as my opinion of night markets, yeah, there’s a lot of crap. Taiwan is generally like that. That said, it could be like Australia where everything has become so sanitised that it’s boring as shit now or you need to get permission just to scratch your arse (and pay a huge fee to do so) or you have to pay a king’s ransom for anything because the person selling it has had to comply with a ton of little, inane rules and paid a whole lot of money in the process and/or been taxed into oblivion. You take the good with the bad.

Keep in mind that there’s likely a big difference between a longterm foreign resident of Taiwan who has been to plenty of night markets, and a western tourist here for a few days who has never been.

[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“mups”]The whole dirty, crowded exercise would be worth it if the food were quality…occasionally you can find decent food there (as noted), but most of it is godawful, and like the restaurant scene here I’ll only try something on recommendation because I value my time. It’s a shame vendors can’t prepare decent food…use cheap ingredients and chuck it in oil seems to be the universal cookbook in these parts.

You can cook anything better at home in the time it takes to go there and line up for that sludge. Night Markets are only popular because locals are incredibly lazy when it comes to cooking and quality and health are no issue as long as the product is cheap.[/quote]

There’s plenty of vendors that prepare their food fresh…much more than the West in fact and vegetables and fruit drinks are everywhere. One thing the locals know a thing or two about is freshness.[/quote]

Depends where you’re talking about…I know the States and Canada really don’t have markets like that…but I’ve seen plenty of market-type street food in South America that I know tastes good just by looking at it.

I’m sure some people do it right here but that’s a minority…not sure I agree with the food being generally fresh either. Maybe they’re making it fresh in front of you but the ingredients themselves…not so much. First thing I ate in a night market here 5 years ago was an oyster omelette…got sick the next day. Occasionally I find something I like (I used to eat at the curry chicken wrap place in YongeHe all the time), but in the end even the good tasting stuff bothers my stomach when I eat it consistently.

I’d be much more likely to explore if these places weren’t so filthy and crowded…such a huge turnoff. The lack of creativity/diversity is also kinda sad.

I’ll give them the fruit drinks though, those are good.

The night markets in Thailand are quite good. And in India. And Laos, Cambodia, Morocco, Italy, Beijing.

Loretta,

I would point out that night markets are generally one of the few places that you can stroll casually and not get assaulted by dog shit, blocked sidewalks nor traffic. I’d say that is the real trick to them. I’d also say that most food is shit here, and if your food is shit, you mind as well have some variety which night markets give in spades. They’re not much for me anymore, but a nice place to take my daughter for a walk occasionally as she likes getting stickers and other stuff. It’s the one thing I miss from Taipei because in Changhua cheap food=generous amount of time to bond with my porcelain throne.

Things I would like to see in a Night market:

  1. Musicians spaced comfortably apart
  2. Parking
  3. Street cleaners

I like them too. I love that feeling of being among chaos at night markets. Also, I’m like a kitten attracted to anything shiny and blinking. :laughing:

It’s too hot during the day in Taiwan, so food+cooler temp+shopping+shiny things=I’m sold.

However, the last time I was at one was five years ago. And when I lived in Taipei I probably only went once a month. Now, older, wiser, with offspring, I’m not sure if I’ll still like them as much as before. People change and all.

I go for the food. Not shopping, not the shady characters, just good ol’ gross, bad for you, non-organic, greasy crap once in a while. :thumbsup:

Duh! No I don’t. I need to do what my professor tells me to do. And he gets paid whatever the results are, as long as there are results. And the government already knows what its going to do – these so-called “surveys” are mere lip gloss. You don’t HONESTLY believe that peasants on the street. Bloody foreign BARBARIANS, at that!!! know better than Mr. Chang up on the 8th floor? He once spent three weeks in the UNITED STATES in 1973, for heaven’s sakes! He’s an EXPERT!

Actually, that’s not quite true. The other thing they tend to say is along the lines of “Oh my GOD! That is DISGUSTING! People would NEVER be allowed to sell food in these filthy conditions back in the civilized world! How DO they manage to get away with it? Doesn’t anybody CARE? Are they paying huge bribes, or what?”
So you see, Ruby, from that, you should suggest that night markets be made EVEN MORE gross and disgusting. That will attract FAR more amazed tourists seeking a Taiwan Touch Your Colon moment of their very own to cherish.

I like night markets, but they’re not a prime goal I would come to Taiwan as a tourist… they’re just a side curiosity.

And it’s not like they’re unique to Taiwan. Bangkok is filled with them, for instance.

(BTW, I just completed a translation project that gave four examples of top tourist draws in Taiwan. Night markets were mentioned… ho hum. But so was Eslite Books. ESLITE BOOKS??? If I were to list four reasons to visit Taiwan as a tourist, it would never cross my mind to mention Eslite Books… WTF is going on here??)

Money and guanxi, of course. What else? :laughing:

Nightmarkets = Streetlife…where everything is thrown together and everybody is thrown together …it’s the antithesis of the urban mall. Imagine if the only place you could visit was an identikit mall…oh wait there are plenty of cities and countries like that all over the world already! Be thankful you have the chance to turn your nose down on nightmarkets!
It’s like the way some of us complain about temples and burning things and noisy parades and fireworks…but would it be Taiwan without them?

I like nightmarkets in general but I agree they could do with some cleaning up and better enforcement of hygeine and standards…but it’s a delicate balance.
The food at nightmarkets is pretty fresh overall and most stuff is fried to hell anyway, it’s normal to get stomach bugs eating locally for the first few years, it’s not neccessarily to do with hygeine but different bacteria here. That is probably the reason the poster got the stomach bug the first time he/she ate an oyster omellete.

I know there are farmer markets and small street markets in some Western countries, but they are a tepid affair compared to the in-your-face Asian version. It’s streetlife baby!

  1. Taiwan girls
  2. Taiwan girls with huge racks
  3. Taiwan girls with huge racks who are easy
  4. Taiwan girls with huge racks who are easy and clean your room after the deed
  5. Taiwan girls with huge racks who are easy and clean your room after the deed while at the same time pay your bills due

Am I missing anything?

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Nightmarkets = Streetlife…where everything is thrown together and everybody is thrown together …it’s the antithesis of the urban mall. Imagine if the only place you could visit was an identikit mall…oh wait there are plenty of cities and countries like that all over the world already! Be thankful you have the chance to turn your nose down on nightmarkets!
It’s like the way some of us complain about temples and burning things and noisy parades and fireworks…but would it be Taiwan without them?

I like nightmarkets in general but I agree they could do with some cleaning up and better enforcement of hygeine and standards…but it’s a delicate balance.
The food at nightmarkets is pretty fresh overall and most stuff is fried to hell anyway, it’s normal to get stomach bugs eating locally for the first few years, it’s not neccessarily to do with hygeine but different bacteria here. That is probably the reason the poster got the stomach bug the first time he/she ate an oyster omellete.

I know there are farmer markets and small street markets in some Western countries, but they are a tepid affair compared to the in-your-face Asian version. It’s streetlife baby![/quote]

Precisely. I’ve actually never had food poisoning in Taiwan and 95% of the time that I’ve eaten out it’s been at night markets or small, local buffets. I think people in the West actually get a little too over-sensitive about hygeine and so on in Taiwan. It’s not nearly as bad as some places I’ve been to in the world.

I’m also with you 100% on the above. In Australia these days, everything is regulated to shit. Plenty of live music venues have trouble remaining open because a scene builds up in an area, then the yuppies move in, then the yuppies pressure the local council to deal with the noisy pollution and long-haired layabouts. The middle to outer suburbs of the major cities are a complete cultural wasteland, and ironically, pretty much every time I have had food poisoning in the West it’s been from eating food from a food court at a suburban shopping mall!

I think you’re confusing an admirable desire to champion the country you have chosen to live in with an objective observation.

Sure, you can eat cheap shitty food anywhere in the world. So why would you travel around the globe to do it here? The fact that you like living in Taiwan, or the fact that I like living in Taiwan, doesn’t change the fact that night markets are not an attraction for most of us.

There are other, far more exciting ways to spend your time than going to night markets. But Taiwanese people seem to universally believe that they are a major draw, a tourist resource to be nurtured and developed. And then they create surveys which are designed to make us agree with them.[/quote]

Actually, I am not even trying to champion Taiwan. I honestly like night markets. Go figure!

Are they a tourist draw? I believe they are. But as to the cleverness or idiocy of the surveys, I can’t comment, not having been drawn into the netherworld of government surveydom - and long may I not have to!

Actually, that’s not quite true. The other thing they tend to say is along the lines of “Oh my GOD! That is DISGUSTING! People would NEVER be allowed to sell food in these filthy conditions back in the civilized world! How DO they manage to get away with it? Doesn’t anybody CARE? Are they paying huge bribes, or what?”
So you see, Ruby, from that, you should suggest that night markets be made EVEN MORE gross and disgusting. That will attract FAR more amazed tourists seeking a Taiwan Touch Your Colon moment of their very own to cherish.[/quote]

Taiwan Touch Your Colon. Classic sandman.

I personally like night markets, but not when they are overly crowded, which is most of the time.

Which is a time I’d least want to be crammed into a mass of people jostling and bumping into me. I’m not anti-NM per se, it’s more the crowds I don’t like. I even avoid Carrefour and Costco like the plague in crowded times.

I think the survey is likely just a cultural misunderstanding. The Taiwanese love Night markets, How could anyone not love them? (in their mind)

It reminds me, for some reason, of a story my aunt relayed to me. She had taken in some foreign exchange students from China, and one day she brought them to the Mall in Lincoln Nebraska, afterwards she assumed they were all super impressed, by their two story mall, and satisfied that she aptly showed them a part of Americana they would never forget, she was quite proud of herself.

The next summer she took a trip to Wuhan to pick up my (now) cousin she was adopting, during her time there she went to the mall, and realized that the kids she took to the mall in Lincoln must of been wondering why she was showing them around this small, crappy mall like a tour guide through Vatican City.

Just assumptions people incorrectly make about people from other cultures.

[quote=“TheAmericanNomad”]I think the survey is likely just a cultural misunderstanding. The Taiwanese love Night markets, How could anyone not love them? (in their mind)

It reminds me, for some reason, of a story my aunt relayed to me. She had taken in some foreign exchange students from China, and one day she brought them to the Mall in Lincoln Nebraska, afterwards she assumed they were all super impressed, by their two story mall, and satisfied that she aptly showed them a part of Americana they would never forget, she was quite proud of herself.

The next summer she took a trip to Wuhan to pick up my (now) cousin she was adopting, during her time there she went to the mall, and realized that the kids she took to the mall in Lincoln must of been wondering why she was showing them around this small, crappy mall like a tour guide through Vatican City.

Just assumptions people incorrectly make about people from other cultures.[/quote]

Yep, convenience, trinkets here and there, rowdy atmosphere, what’s not to love (in twnese mind).

Kids especially love those 50/100 NT games where they’re guaranteed plasticizers, oops…I meant toys, regardless of how many points they can achieve in the games.