Your experience with racism in Taiwan

This is the first time I’ve heard the claim that including someone into their own group is racist. I’ll have to chew on that. :smiley:

as for relevance, it’s relevant to @southernboy making the point that as guests they have an obligation to wear a mask. You may disagree there’s any special obligation, but it’s relevant to the point he was trying to make.

Keep it civil please, thanks.

I would only to be able to see that as a negative. These kids are born here, speak the language and grow up much the same as any other taiwanese. Why should it be the norm to label them as an outsider?

And how could that be seen as a good thing? I don’t think any kid would like that, it could even lead to some resentment down the line like a lot of ABC kids who grow up to be white hating incels.

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I agree. Maybe it is rude to assume that someone not looking like a Han-Chinese is a foreigner, but to be honest what is the chance of meeting a western looking person who is actually a Taiwanese citizen or feeling like a Taiwanese? There is probably only a slim share of such people in Taiwan, so most of the time you would actually be correct to call someone like this a foreigner. For me this is not racism, it is a mistake that many people would make based on their expectations and experiences.

Just to add, I have experienced something similar. I’m half German half Taiwanese born and raised in Germany. Obviously I don’t really look 100% full-blood German (if there is something like that), I would say I look rather asian than western. However this makes me not less German. I remember one occurence on a German train, where two older ladies politely asked me in English if the seats next to me were vacant. I answered in English and let them sit next to me just to hear them talking in German minutes later. Hence, they obviously thought I was a foreigner who could not speak German (although Germany has a lot of people with foreign backgrounds). Yes, I was somehow irritated by it, but I would never call it racist because there was simply no ill intent. But everyone has a different opinion I guess.

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Actually, I’m trying to bring him up in my culture as well. So not raised the same as everyone else. Food, media, parenting methods, etc.

People say it in a good way. Like: look at the foreigner baby, he’s got beautiful eyes. Or, he’s special…or he’s so lucky to learn English as a foreigner, he’ll be bilingual.
They’re not using it in negative way. They are using it as praise. Like I said, maybe things will change in the future, but I don’t take it as a negative. I think somen people are being overly sensitive.

Not seeing this. I think an overly sensitive parent could project this onto a kid. But it’s not the case for us.

I think similarly in Canada, if you’re not white, you’re going to get the: where are you really from? Question.
I think little are just curious, I don’t think it’s inherently racist.

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Yes true, but I was not referring to just birth it was the born here and RAISED here which makes the difference., so are you saying this person is stateless? That is what I find unacceptable not ONLY because he was born here.

It’s racist.
It’s probably not intended to be, but it certainly is.

Positive racism can easily flip to negative racism.
They are two sides of that same rusty coin.
For somebody to be positively discriminated by race, another person has to be negatively discriminated by race.

In the end of the day, we need to get rid of racism.and not make excuses for it. It’s led to some very dark things in history.

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There [quote=“Widi, post:774, topic:200853, full:true”]
I agree. Maybe it is rude to assume that someone not looking like a Han-Chinese is a foreigner, but to be honest what is the chance of meeting a western looking person who is actually a Taiwanese citizen or feeling like a Taiwanese? There is probably only a slim share of such people in Taiwan, so most of the time you would actually be correct to call someone like this a foreigner. For me this is not racism, it is a mistake that many people would make based on their expectations and experiences.

Just to add, I have experienced something similar. I’m half German half Taiwanese born and raised in Germany. Obviously I don’t really look 100% full-blood German (if there is something like that), I would say I look rather asian than western. However this makes me not less German. I remember one occurence on a German train, where two older ladies politely asked me in English if the seats next to me were vacant. I answered in English and let them sit next to me just to hear them talking in German minutes later. Hence, they obviously thought I was a foreigner who could not speak German (although Germany has a lot of people with foreign backgrounds). Yes, I was somehow irritated by it, but I would never call it racist because there was simply no ill intent. But everyone has a different opinion I guess.
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There are more and more western looking people with Taiwanese passports.

Yup it is racist , end of.
If Person A says say they come from country x but person B says “But where are you really from?” then yeah that is racism 101.

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One of my good friends when I was a kid, who later became a famous sports star, was of half Chinese half native Irish heritage. This was back in the day when there were very few non ethnic Irish in the country

I still remember one day a monk coming into the class to give some kind of social class.

For some reason he picked out my friend. Started asking him about his background. Said something pseudoscientific about ‘mongoloid features’. I remember my friends extreme discomfort and that he was on the verge of tears. I instantly knew what the monk was doing , supposedly educated and a man of God and an adult , was very wrong and damaging to my friend. He was singling out my friend as different ,making him feel less Irish. This could be picked up by the other kids.

Later my friend wrote a book (I have a signed copy :grin:) , while not detailing this incident, he did write a lot about the issues he faced because of race there. For a long time he tried to ignore it and it was papered over (just part of the abuse on the football pitch, just misunderstanding , no big deal etc) but he said he wants to face it head on now and help others .

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local people often talk about where their ancestors originally came from.

I don’t mind Taiwanese use foreigner to mean non Han and non aboriginal people, but judging someones nationality by their appearance at public services like a hospital is racist.

That’s different . They aren’t saying they are Chinese now.

I’m actually curious about this subject seeing that I’m not Caucasian. From the looks of it, Taiwan is not as bad of a place for racism like S. Korea or Japan (my own research). However when I was there I didn’t notice it if there was any. Honestly, I probably get more bad looks or notice here in Canada since I’m indigenous/aboriginal. People said I either look Spanish or Filipino/Indonesia… I have to laugh at that but can see how they think I’m one of those groups. I guess in my case, whatever these groups reputation are at the time I’m there, is how I’ll get treated. I have a thicker skin than most and not much of a complainer.

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You might if you were a local citizen or had local kids that were non han and non aboriginal.

Korea and Japan would be more racist than Taiwan due to their cultural pride, but they also have more foreigners working a multitude of jobs so it may be changing long term. You might be able to live in Taiwan a couple years and not notice any racism as its rarely overt.

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I was a mixed race kid in taiwan. I don’t mind, as it’s just generally not meant maliciously, at all. My mom even refers to herself as a foreigner, even though she was born and raised in Taiwan and has moved back to Taiwan, because she lived abroad for so long. Its not much different than areas in the u.s. where people who’ve been there for decades aren’t seen as local (regardless of race). :shrug

I’m pretty sure the US has a very different attitude to people of various colours overall.

It’s very different here where non han looking people are literally called foreigner to their face every day.

Calling people foreigner by their looks is pure ignorance.

Constantly referring to people as foeigners laowai heiren wailao etc…Is also ignorant and very lazy. It’s just become accepted here.

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Is it the word? Or some perception of the sentiment? Is local / non local any better? - I think that’s essentially how it’s meant, but it just doesn’t translate all that well.

because structures of society and history are different.

I agree it is ignorant, but also not certain if pressing western ways of perception is right.

Just curious, but how do you know? I don’t think there are statistics about western looking people having a Taiwanese passport. Unless you have some hard proof it is only an assumption just as my statement before. Based on what I am reading here, not many people are willing to give up their original citizenship for a Taiwanese one as you may become stateless in worst case scenario. So I don’t expect a substantial increase in this regard.