i tell people i think the market is over saturated with bushibans. something’s gotta give. they tell me the market will ALWAYS have room for one more bushiban.
i can’t think of any industry that do that, so their answer bothers me. opinions please.
You’re probably right. It’s also oversaturated with bad salaries and benefits. I can’t understand why someone would teach in Taiwan anymore. I guess that’s another thread. I teach in Korea and the market really became oversaturated in the big cities (especially Seoul). Too many schools (hagwons) were opened and they eventually lost money and only the big ones survived.
Even with the way bosses try to screw you around with things here, Korea is just such a better money-wise place to be. Especially if you have experience.
I’m talking too much and getting off topic.
I doubt it. As long as there are kids and as long as the government is in charge of teaching English in schools, I fear little. 
SOME markets are saturated, but certainly not all of them are.
Scott Summers is propably the lad to talk to about this (out there Scott?), but it seems to me a couple of things are happening.
The first thing, is as j9 says, is that wages are getting squeezed. I could make 5-600 as a brand newbee here in the mid 1990s - that hasn’t changed much since then. Meanwhile prices have been going up (general prices slowly, but housing in Taipei is about double what it was back then), so there has been a reduction in real wages (i.e. income over prices).
The second thing that is going on is a bifrication of the market. At the upper end, it’s getting institutionalized and jobs are going to a specialized crew of teachers - those with TEFL certificates, a Masters or PhD, and perhaps most importantly, home-country experience. I have heard it’s easier to get into a university here if you apply from abroad, rather than from somewhere in Taiwan.
At the lower end of the market, things are becoming more clownlike - a proliferation of buxibans that all look the same, and struggle to stay afloat. They pay poor salaries and often screw-up with basic admin stuff (we’ll have your pay ready in a couple of days…). There’s possibly enough demand out there to keep these cookie-cutter establishments in business, but it’s subsistance (sp?) farming, everyone’s a price taker.
So no big meltdown, just a few common signs of a market maturing - income squeezing and stratification of production.
It won’t bust like the dot-coms. As long as English is the major international language there will always be a lot of kids who need someone to teach them English. So you won’t suddenly find yourself without a market.
And the pay can never go below what the average high school graduate can earn fresh out of school. If it did people would leave and less people would come so that economics would push wages back up.
In that respect it’s steady.
But with more people arriving schools will be able to be more picky and be less bothered about finding a replacement (although a teacher’s relationship with the students will always be something schools will not want to give up). So there will be a lowering of the bottom standard to a final market low point and an increased minimum of qualifications as schools have more candidates to choose from.
But the increase of people choosing this route is likely to slow rather than increase, so equilibrium in the market should be reached sooner rather than later.
At least, that’s my guess.
The ubiquitous lack of interest in applicable results from said training produces an Alzheimers-like, perpetual teaching opportunity. I think we’re safe.
I doubt it but what may happen is that it may become more difficult to teach English if you don’t have certain papers, perhaps 10 years or so…
[quote=“jdsmith”]I doubt it. As long as there are kids and as long as the government is in charge of teaching English in schools, I fear little.
SOME markets are saturated, but certainly not all of them are.[/quote]
Could you elaborate on which markets are saturated?
I’m planning to go to Taipei in January, but if the pay is so low and the housing so high, maybe it’s not worth the added convenience for a person like myself (on a very tight budget). What areas have the most demand?
[quote=“Persephone”][quote=“jdsmith”]I doubt it. As long as there are kids and as long as the government is in charge of teaching English in schools, I fear little.
SOME markets are saturated, but certainly not all of them are.[/quote]
Could you elaborate on which markets are saturated?
I’m planning to go to Taipei in January, but if the pay is so low and the housing so high, maybe it’s not worth the added convenience for a person like myself (on a very tight budget). What areas have the most demand?[/quote]
Taipei for example, has many many schools, but since a lot of foreigners prefer to live in Taipei, the market is what I call “saturated.” Now I live and work outside of Taipei in Tapei county, and the situation is better here, but not much.
Outside the bigger cities, finding a job should be easier, however, the rub is, who the hell wants to live too far away from a big city?
I meet lots of teachers who say, “I don’t want the big city. Just a small town thanks.” But look, a small town in Taiwan is NOT a small town where you come from. They can be stifling and excessively boring.
I may be wrong on this, as I haven’t looked for a job in years. My advice is always, live in a place that allowsyou to do what you want to do with reasonable ease.
What kind of experience do you have BTW?
what about my opening a school for adults? is there room for that? my years at GVC have taught me most of what i need to know. administration might be a problem though.
Adult schools are really hard to manage I’ve heard. GVC has years of experience and curriculum, such that it is, all set up.
I wouldn’t do it, but that doesn’t mean it won’t work.
[quote=“jdsmith”]Taipei for example, has many many schools, but since a lot of foreigners prefer to live in Taipei, the market is what I call “saturated.” Now I live and work outside of Taipei in Tapei county, and the situation is better here, but not much.
Outside the bigger cities, finding a job should be easier, however, the rub is, who the hell wants to live too far away from a big city?
I meet lots of teachers who say, “I don’t want the big city. Just a small town thanks.” But look, a small town in Taiwan is NOT a small town where you come from. They can be stifling and excessively boring.
I may be wrong on this, as I haven’t looked for a job in years. My advice is always, live in a place that allows you to do what you want to do with reasonable ease.
What kind of experience do you have BTW?[/quote]
I tutored Koreans in Vermont, El Salvadorans in DC, and Koreans, Chinese, and Latinos in NY. Seven years total of experience tutoring adults and children in ESL, helping dyslexic children learn to read, and assisting immigrant high school students with their English/Social Studies papers. I prefer to work with children 10-14 years old–although, I’ve taken a couple of 6 year olds since I read on this site that a lot of schools are looking for teachers for younger students.
I have a B.S. in International Relations-Latin American studies, but I liked tutoring so much that I decided I’d rather change the world through the young as a teacher than getting involved in government. I graduated 4 years ago. I want to have an experience working abroad in a completely new environment before I settle into my life in the US and get stuck taking care of a family.
I don’t have any classroom experience. I want to practice in Taiwan before I apply to a teachers’ college.
I’m also one of those people that doesn’t want to live in the big city. I was hoping for a small city like DC in Taiwan. Primarily I like DC because the buildings aren’t that tall, there are a lot of green spaces, and the views of the sun over the Potomac River are really nice. Also, DC isn’t as crowded as NY, but has a very diverse population, decent bookstores, museums, clubs, and a public transportation system.
I’m not really big into clubbing, and I don’t mind not seeing other foreigners for long periods of time. However, since I can’t drive (I hope to learn before I go), I thought it would be best to start in Taipei and move to another city later.
Any suggestions?
Persephone, as far as public transport, museums and bookstores with decent English language sections go, then Taipei is definitely ahead.
Kaohsiung, Taichung and Tainan; the 2nd, 3rd and 4th largest cities respectively, all have something to offer although life is not so convenient in some ways. But I have heard that jobs in these cities are harder to come by now as well. Rent is a lot cheaper than in Taipei, though.
I suppose you could try somewhere within a short train/bus ride from Taipei City.
Washington, DC is a “small” city? There are a half a million people! It’s only “small” if you compare it to some megapolis like NYC. Taichung, Tainan, and Kaohsiung are around the same size as DC, but if you’re looking for “a very diverse population, decent bookstores, museums, clubs, and a public transportation system”…good luck, unless you’re fluent in Chinese. Only Taipei has an MRT. There are bus systems but good luck using one if you don’t read Chinese. Compared to the cosmopolitan cities you’re coming from, NYC/DC, even Taipei is Hicksville.
Back on topic. There are more language schools in Tainan than there are grocery stores. Driving down the street, you will spot as many language schools as 7-11s, if not more. Is the market oversaturated? Like, DUH.
Actually, the Washington, D.C. MSA has about 5.5 million. About the same at the Taipei MSA.
For markets to “go bust” there has to be irrational exuberance, more hype than revenue. I don’t see that here. Oversupply, perhaps. Crap quality at half the schools, definitely.
Actually, the Washington, D.C. MSA has about 5.5 million. About the same at the Taipei MSA.[/quote]
I was going by the District of Columbia proper population, which is only half a million. But yeah, throw in the surrounding 'burbs in Maryland and Virginia and it’s a lot bigger than that. City vs. “greater metro area” stats can be funny - one of the suburbs of Phoenix registers on the charts as actually bigger than Phoenix itself, for example. In Tainan, there’s a big road, Junghua Road, that encircles the city, and the northern quarter is officially in Yungkang City. There’s no stretch of land separating the two cities - it’s as if the city planners arbritarily lopped off a chunk of land smack in the middle of Tainan, right on the biggest street in Tainan, and said it was part of the suburb of Yungkang. It’s weird how cities in Taiwan are often so crammed close together that one city ends and another city begins without any separation by rural areas, the entire west coast is just one big urban jungle, one long big city.
What’s MSA?
Metropolitan Statistical Area
Basically, it means that area that most people consider to be the greater city, regardless of where the actual legal geographic boundaries are. MSA is likely used for many purposes, but one purpose is to include all of the people in statistics who basically live in a city, even if they technically live outside city limits (next county over, just over the state border, etc). In this case, the Washington, D.C. MSA would include D.C., plus parts of suburban Maryland and Virginia, etc. – areas that fall within the range (radius) of people who utilize the city for work, recreation, etc.
Yeah, “Metro” works for that one. But I got what you meant even though I’ve never heard “MSA” before. Usually, like on the radio, they would say, “Metropolitan (city) area weather is…”.