Youth protesters surround Ministry of National Defense

Today is the first time in Taiwanese history, protesters surround an ROC military site. These young people have no memory of the White Terror. They are disgusted by the brutality of the ROC military but aren’t afraid of it.

That’s because everyone has to do military, or has children that will do military service. They are afraid that they could be next should they join. Given the MND’s attitude I am afraid of a violent escalation.

Wouldn’t a violent escalation defeat the whole point of avoiding military service? Or is it just that they don’t like khaki?

I get the sense they’re not thinking this all the way through.

Not only the young, many of my neighbors were there. We are talking amas whose kids have already done their time and have no grandchildren yet -that age or any age. WWII veterans who fought in China. Teachers at local elementary schools. This incident has people of all walks of life really pissed.

There are no talk of violence but given MND’s rather condescending attitude toward this thing, and the fact that they are hiding as much as they can get away with, people think that the MND is waiting for the thing to blow over and then they will just bury it. If the case comes out wrong it could end up like Rodney King because this is one issue, unlike environmental issue or even worker right issue that everyone cares about. They know how rotten and corrupt the military is, and one of the biggest fears of any conscript is not making it out alive because people have been killed for no reason and they were either declared AWOL or ruled suicide. People don’t mind serving their country but there’s a huge difference between dying at the hands of enemies than dying at the hands of corrupt officials. There are talks of further demonstration and if it goes south things could turn into a violent protest.

I read this interesting nugget today:

Apparent back in March of 2006, DPP led government passed a amendment of the Army/Navy/Air Force Punishment Law, so that when a military personnel violates some sort of rules, it would go through an independent third party military punishment court.

When Ma became president back in 2008, this was one of the many laws that he revoked. Instead of a independent third party court, now the punishment is evaluated by the unit of the offender like how it always was in the good old KMT army. Because apparently the original system worked so well.

I think Taiwan also need an independent investigation units for the Amry/Navy/Air force/PG. Something like the NCIS, so when shit like this happens, the military isn’t leading the investigation.

By the way, the video footages that had black screens during Hung’s torture is analyzed as someone put a black cloth in front of the lens.

icon, Taiwan Luthiers, any thoughts on why this particular issue is galvanizing people from different generations? There are so many issues that deserve widespread protest. Why this?

Another person has spoke up on the internet about what happened during the moments when the video footage were blacked out.

Apparent the henchmen were fed up with Hung’s repeated pleas for water, so they dragged Hung into the bathroom and forced water down his throat.

Dr. Ko said that would be compatible with Hung’s sodium ion levels when he was rushed to the hospital. Hung weighs over 90kg, a regular person with that weight should have a sodium ion level of 140, but Hung measured in with 128 at the hospital. Dr. Ko estimated that kind of measurement would be equivalent of being force fed about 8.4 kg of water.

Dr. Ko said it is without a doubt that Hung died of a heat stroke. But for those suffering from severe dehydration, sodium ion levels should be higher than normal. Hung’s condition is similar to marathoners, after dehydration then drinking a lot of water would result in low sodium ion level.

Basically, Hung was waterboarded while having a heat stroke.

In most other cases, the KMT government are flat out being douche bags, like the Da Pu incident, the County Mayor basically said “haha you left your house, so it’s a god given moment to bulldoze it! i’m a douche, if you protest in front of my house, I’ll throw you in jail, what cha gonna do?” It’s bull shite, but people in Taiwan expects bull shite, and it’s not fun, new, interesting, and there’s not much they can do about it, since people of Miao Li and Da Pu voted for KMT at every level, even since the last time they got bulldozed by the KMT. County Mayor Liu even tore down historic Hakka buildings just so that he can put mock ups of Chinese dirty houses as a tourist attraction. Many culturally/historically enlightened Hakka people are furious, but they voted the dude in…

But this military thing is different. It involves cover up, mystery and intrigue to be solved. The best of all, most people aren’t responsible for putting those frakkers in position.

The straw that broke the camel’s back?

Aside from the missing tape at the military complex, there is the “deleted” tape at the drink store where they saw one of the accused, the missing then reappeared with pages missing task diary of Hung, the run around by the MoD… I mean, the stink is too awful to ignore. I mean, it is way too cruel, they delayed the ambulance, man! Way too awful.

I don’t know how his family can take it. The more revelations come out, the worse it gets. The pain would have driven anyone insane/to suicide. I feel for them. So I guess any mother/father/sister/brother sees this guy’s plight and weeps. Then they get mad.

I think it is the equivalent of that news about the guy who ran over the pregnant lady … twice , to make sure she was dead. In this case, the equivalent would be that they ran into him, ran him over 6 times to make sure he was dead, burned the garage down, blocked the ambulance, and even shot the dog who came to sniff the blood. That kind of low.

I guess you could say the same about the houses demolished while the protestors were still in Taipei “negotiating” with the government (giving them no time to get their stuff out). Or the food safety issues. And don’t get started on economy issues. But those do not have a single face. It is not that personalized, that intimate. And at least people say, well, they’ll get money. Maybe. But this, this has no other name than sadistic murder.

Also this issue affects everyone, not just some people (housing issue and stuff) because everyone has to serve in the military, or knows someone who is or will be serving in the military.

Why is this protest different from the others? It’s moved by a mother’s grief for her tortured son. That moves all walks of life cross boundaries.

It moves people, but doesn’t get them out protesting.

It’s because it touches pretty much every family in Taiwan, either men who have served previously or families whose kids are serving now or could be conscripted in the future.

And air and water pollution don’t touch everyone? Food safety? Traffic? Wages stagnant since the 90s?

If there was like a face they could relate to, it would stir more attention. Moreover, at least this issue has hope of finding some solution/closure.

Maybe. I get that people are outraged and talking about it. That always happened. Even with the Dapu case, which had plenty of faces to it. But you just don’t usually see this level of public protest.

I think its fantastic. They should go ahead and scrap this whole military thing :smiley: . Where is this building? I want to join in

It moves people, but doesn’t get them out protesting.[/quote]

PTT, a popular online forum based on primitive browser technology, plays the major of in the organization of the protest. One significant feature about this protest is that it’s a self-organizing movement from individuals who don’t know each other. On the contrary, party-line demonstration is centrally planned and commanded.

It moves people, but doesn’t get them out protesting.[/quote]
It’s also a mechanism of ‘social atoms’. It’s very difficult to explain in details why such and such event trigger an avalanche and the other events don’t.