Zain Dean conviction--fatal hit & run case PART II

Boo hoo. The family of the deceased should be receiving all of our sympathy.

The whole thing seemed fishy to me from the start when he had his car wrecked the next day. I don’t know about anyone else, but after a huge bender, the last thing I would think of doing is having my car destroyed the next morning. Laying in bed/on the couch nursing my hangover is a much better idea.[/quote]
when he sought to have his car scrapped,yes.
This is a sad case, too emotional, an innocent’s death and too many unanswered questions.
Let’s take the night step by step, pure conjecture:
Maybe he wasn’t that drunk the night before, so the next day didn’t have much of a hangover, and was planning his escape. Of course, not being very drunk would be consistent with his story-not getting too drunk while with the potential investor, but being over the limit the KTV gave him a driver. However, it is also consistent with him being guilty. Thinking himself not too drunk and capable of driving home (it was a rainy night, and he figured it’s not that far, he won’t meet a cop), he asked the driver to exit the car at the next red light. Being a little drunk he drove at a higher speed than normal and hit the motorcyclist. Now, as far as hitting the motorcycle-it is my recollection the angle was a glancing blow in a heavy car driven at speed, nonetheless it would have been felt clearly in the car.
So, has anyone seen the video of him leaving the KTV-was he walking relatively normal, or was he unable to walk?

Chris, I agree with you that

[quote]A court basing its sentencing decision partially on a lack of remorse from a defendant who has all along maintained his innocence IS an unfair court[/quote] although the initial sentence was light, considering the crime he was convicted of.

However, you have not seen all the evidence and are projecting:

Yes, they did. However, I’m sure some will come here (mostly friends/acquaintances) to say that the courts were unfare, etc.[/quote]
A court basing its sentencing decision partially on a lack of remorse from a defendant who has all along maintained his innocence IS an unfair court, as is a court basing its guilty verdict on flimsy evidence. There is too much reasonable doubt in this case.[/quote]
He already stated that he was too drunk to remember what happened. You can try and weave it any way that you want. Guilty verdict. You either can accept it or you can’t. Either way, I couldn’t care less. IMO, he got what he deserved. :2cents:

He PASSED OUT IN HIS CAR! He couldn’t remember getting home. :loco: Honestly people, stop making excuses for this guy. :thumbsdown:

He PASSED OUT IN HIS CAR! He couldn’t remember getting home. :loco: Honestly people, stop making excuses for this guy. :thumbsdown:[/quote]
I’m not making excuses for him. [color=#0000BF]You need to read what I wrote more closely bro.[/color] It is pure conjecture based upon him not being very drunk, therefore choosing to drive home, therefore knowing he hit the motorcycle.

It’s also not what I believe. Without seeing all the evidence (and wanting to see more CCTV recordings all the way to his house) and going through his statement, asking him questions about it, I wouldn’t know its veracity-and wouldn’t conclude on what really happened.

Ah, the “pretty sure” standard of proof.

And if there were ever a day that you were being convicted of a crime you didn’t commit, and nobody believed you…

Oh, never mind.

He PASSED OUT IN HIS CAR! He couldn’t remember getting home. :loco: Honestly people, stop making excuses for this guy. :thumbsdown:[/quote]
I’m not making excuses for him. [color=#0000BF]You need to read what I wrote more closely bro.[/color] It is pure conjecture based upon him not being very drunk, therefore choosing to drive home, therefore knowing he hit the motorcycle.

It’s also not what I believe. Without seeing all the evidence (and wanting to see more CCTV recordings all the way to his house) and going through his statement, asking him questions about it, I wouldn’t know its veracity-and wouldn’t conclude on what really happened.[/quote]
He wasn’t “not very drunk”. He already clearly stated this fact. Stating otherwise is useless.

And if there were ever a day that you were being convicted of a crime you didn’t commit, and nobody believed you…

Oh, never mind.[/quote]
Honestly, I would never put myself in that situation. Would you? Also, there is a HIGH probability that he did commit this crime. He obviously knew that he would be drinking, so he should have left his car at home. It was clear stupidity from start to finish.

Ah, the “pretty sure” standard of proof.[/quote]
Do you have a point? Would you like to add anything to the discussion or are you just here to add a smart ass comment?

And if there were ever a day that you were being convicted of a crime you didn’t commit, and nobody believed you…

Oh, never mind.[/quote]
Honestly, I would never put myself in that situation. Would you?[/quote]
I wouldn’t put myself into a position in which I would commit a serious crime, but sometimes innocent people simply end up in situations in which they look guilty. Part of the random roulette wheel of life.

I’m reminded of a time when I was a kid in school; I was walking along the corridor and a small glass object (a piece of art) fell from a shelf onto the floor and smashed. I hadn’t come near it; didn’t touch it or influence it in any way. If fell as I was nearing it, and by the time people came out of the next room to investigate the source of the noise, I was next to the shards and it sure looked to them like I was the guilty party. My truthful defense was “It just fell by itself as I was walking along” didn’t seem to convince anyone, despite being the absolute honest-to-goodness truth. I was blamed.

There’s a lesson in there.

Ah, the “pretty sure” standard of proof.[/quote]
Do you have a point?[/quote]

I think I made my point.

I think I’ve participated adequately in this discussion over the past couple of years:

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He PASSED OUT IN HIS CAR! He couldn’t remember getting home. :loco: Honestly people, stop making excuses for this guy. :thumbsdown:[/quote]
I’m not making excuses for him. [color=#0000BF]You need to read what I wrote more closely bro.[/color] It is pure conjecture based upon him not being very drunk, therefore choosing to drive home, therefore knowing he hit the motorcycle.

It’s also not what I believe. Without seeing all the evidence (and wanting to see more CCTV recordings all the way to his house) and going through his statement, asking him questions about it, I wouldn’t know its veracity-and wouldn’t conclude on what really happened.[/quote]
He wasn’t “not very drunk”. He already clearly stated this fact. Stating otherwise is useless.[/quote]

Kea is implying that he is open to the possibility that Mr. Dean lied about the extent of his intoxication.

You appear to have scored an own goal.

Yes, they did. However, I’m sure some will come here (mostly friends/acquaintances) to say that the courts were unfare, etc.[/quote]
A court basing its sentencing decision partially on a lack of remorse from a defendant who has all along maintained his innocence IS an unfair court, as is a court basing its guilty verdict on flimsy evidence. There is too much reasonable doubt in this case.[/quote]

There are a lot of questions. I could argue it both ways. It’s pretty much impossible to make a good decision without the video footage. The courts have this. (Edit: the courts don’t have this.) They made their decision. He was not found guilty due to lack of remorse, though, just had his sentence increased, as far as I can tell.

I’m not going to express an opinion as to whether or not he was driving when his car struck the victim. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t, but I’m not sufficiently conversant with all of the evidence to be able to make an informed judgment on that either way.

However, the most damning piece of evidence against him is that, despite claiming to have been so drunk that he had passed out in the car and was blissfully unaware of it having struck and killed a scooter rider, nevertheless, just a few minutes later, by his own admission, he ordered the KTV driver to get out of the car and drove himself the last part of his journey home.

So, despite his state of extreme intoxication, he did drive his car at least part of the way between the KTV and his home that night. Whether or not he actually did kill anyone while so doing, he most certainly was (by his own well publicized testimony) driving in such a state that anyone driving, riding or walking where he drove was severely imperiled by his action. Driving where he did in such a state is tantamount to pointing a loaded gun blindly into a downtown street and firing off several dozen rounds. In my opinion, that alone warrants a custodial sentence. The original 2.5-year sentence was reasonable for such a crime, and even a 4-year sentence (which probably means getting out of prison after a couple of years at most) is not excessively harsh for it.

Therefore, even if he wasn’t the driver, he’s still only been given a sentence that reasonably matches the crimes he admits to having committed. And if he was the driver, he’s very fortunate not to have been given a much, much longer prison sentence, which I and many others believe to be the just desserts of anyone who causes a fatal accident while driving under the influence.

I assume that the judges viewed this case in a similar light, and regardless of whether or not they judged it conclusively proven that he was the driver when the fatal accident occurred, judged that the sum of his actions on and after that fateful night warranted the imposition of a fairly stern punishment on him. Many people, perhaps even most, would agree with that, even if they believe he should be given the benefit of any doubt concerning his version of events.

Hence, I do not see the need to shed too many tears for Zain Dean, even if his version of events is entirely true and honest.

While I agree with your sentiment, it is the responsibility of the courts to show transparency over what they are convicting a person for. 2.5 years for drunk driving - more even, I agree is a just punishment for his actions. For death by drink driving I think the sentence should surpass 15 years.
If the courts are sentencing for a culmination of his actions, then so be it and I would be happy with that. However, this is not what they are sentencing for and this is where the legal system in Taiwan gets drawn into question again and again and again.

Without incontrovertible evidence that he was at the wheel at the moment of impact it boils down to this: If you are passed out drunk in your car, at the moment your vehicle is involved in a homicide, are you culpable? And if you are culpable, is your sentence in anyway to be reduced due you not being awake and therefore not being able to tell whoever was driving to stop and call for an ambulance?

The problem goes back to the police, since they cannot be trusted to do a proper investigation. The witnesses and lack of proper procedure in this court case would have ruled it invalid in the west. Dean certainly was driving the car for part of the journey in a very bad state, and since he was the only proven drunken party in charge of the car it is a hard call for the judge to say it was the other fellow. If they are going to have to choose one person to satiate the need for punishment Dean will lose everytime.
So the lesson is certainly don’t put yourself in that position in the first place and be mindful of risks to others.

That’s probably something then, in a twisted sort of a way. SOMEONE drove a car into a dude and left him to die in the road. In the West justice would have been if nobody had been convicted, if it wouldn’t have made it to court on lack of evidence. Hardly justice that now is it. SO in some twisted way Taiwanese law has made someone guilty. Even if it isn’t the right person. I don’t entirely agree with what I am posting here, but it’s the thought I am having in response to HH’s prior post, so please nobody jump down my throat about it. :smiley:

Why don’t they just triangulate all the phone movements and shut this thing once and for all? The KTV lad is the one who needs tracing, he is the key to the whole thing.

There is video evidence. (The video evidence was provided by the KTV.) None of us here have seen it, though (as far as I know). It could answer a lot of questions, but the questions are not for us to answer, so we are left without evidence and can just speculate. The courts are not, though.

There is video evidence. None of us here have seen it, though (as far as I know). It could answer a lot of questions, but the questions are not for us to answer, so we are left without evidence and can just speculate. The courts are not, though.[/quote]

How sure is it that this video exists? It has only been introduced as a piece of evidence on the flob version of things in the past few days to my knowledge. I can’t recall shatter about there being a video showing only one person in the car. The only video I remember is the timestamp fake thingy made by the KTV owner. Is that right?

EDIT: I thought there was a post that said there is a video showing just one driver in the car during the impact. I can’t seem to find it now. Me going bonkers?