My prejudices are confirmed by the way police did not collect evidence in a timely and professional manner, and yes, the parading of the suspect in the media from the first instance. For me this is not only a problem for the suspects in this case but for all of us living here. It’s much bigger than Dean and whether he is guilty or not. It shines light on a system which oftentimes is more of a facisimile of a justice system than the real thing (it’s not the first case to either…read all about the Hsizhi trio to see how they’ll fit the facts to the case, not the case to the facts, and they’ll keep doing if for decades in cases). The justice system MUST be seen to be doing justice. The need to convict somebody in order to pay compensation is another issue.
Then there’s the media here … 
Remind of the US guy who was passed drunk out in his flat, while his GF butchered another woman. He was foreigner, she was Taiwanese. She wound up in jail, after the media storm, and all that, he was released with little fuss.
They did not gather enough evidence, however they were not especially prejudiced against him, if not, they could have nailed him.
They did not do so, probably because the evidence the police collected pointed in another direction.
All suspects are paraded in the media here.
Do you mean the guy whose Filipino gf murdered an employer? Or is that another case? He was later cleared of involvement and then killed himself back in the US.
That’s the guy.
A pina, how easy it would have been for the police to get an American alcoholic in prison for that one. Since she was from a group suffering form a fair bit of racism here, I guess they ought to have tken the easy route, fodder for the media.
American murders filipina - great news!!!
Taiwanese woman murders Filipina - 10 seconds of notority only.
[quote=“Mr He”]A pina, how easy it would have been for the police to get an American alcoholic in prison for that one. Since she was from a group suffering form a fair bit of racism here, I guess they ought to have tken the easy route, fodder for the media.
American murders filipina - great news!!!
Taiwanese woman murders Filipina - 10 seconds of notority only.[/quote]
I think the Filipina was convicted of murder, at least according to your post from October of 2008:
[quote=“Mr He”]The Filipina got sentenced to death.
If I read it correctly, David killed himself in the US in June.
tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/ … 16xhf.html
tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/ … 16wgl.html
I am rusty, details may be off.[/quote]
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 71#p905871
I think the murder victim was Taiwanese.
My point was that the American was not framed.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]My prejudices are confirmed by the way police did not collect evidence in a timely and professional manner
Then there’s the media here … 
[/quote]
Yes your prejudices, mine too.
What about the media in scotland who called zd an ethnic indian immigrant born in india? Is that any different to the press in taiwan you call racist for mentioning the same thing?
That was disappointing.
My prejudices are confirmed by the way police did not collect evidence in a timely and professional manner, and yes, the parading of the suspect in the media from the first instance. For me this is not only a problem for the suspects in this case but for all of us living here. It’s much bigger than Dean and whether he is guilty or not. It shines light on a system which oftentimes is more of a facisimile of a justice system than the real thing (it’s not the first case to either…read all about the Hsizhi trio to see how they’ll fit the facts to the case, not the case to the facts, and they’ll keep doing if for decades in cases). The justice system MUST be seen to be doing justice. The need to convict somebody in order to pay compensation is another issue.
Then there’s the media here … [/quote]
Yes a facsimile of justice. I like that. And not even a good copy.
In most cases, possibly “justice” is served in some form. But mistakes are made. HOwever, mistakes are made in other countries too, so its not just Taiwan.
The Hsichih Trio is a huge mystery. No one really knows to date whether they did or did not do it.
Except themselves.
I tend to think they were not involved but somehow framed by the real killer, but who knows.
I guess the point here is that, like anywhere else, best to keep your nose clean and stay out of trouble.
Don’t be in a situation where your shit can unravel !
And you get yourself in some real shit.
Be aware of the law and be careful to stay on the right side of it. Don’t be out of control of your body and your actions.
For example, don’t drink and drive. You know that can lead to much that is not good.
Many years ago i visited a friend in Chiayi. Parked my car outside his house. We went out to eat (and drink). He was visibly drunk and no doubt so was I.
What we should have done is take a cab home. Chiayi is pretty small after all.
He insisted on driving me to the hotel and he drove home.
The next day I went to his house and my car had a huge dent in a door. And his car had the corresponding front damage. Put the two together and voila. He had hit my car while trying to park his.
Oh well.
At least it was cheap to repair in Taiwan.
We were both just hoping that he hit no one else ! Because he couldn’t remember ANYTHING.
Motto: Dont drink and drive under any circumstance.
The philippina case, I think it was pretty clearly proven she killed the woman she owed money to. Did she get executed yet, or still on death row.
That was of course a sad case.
Did she think she could get away with it?
What bout the recent conviction of the female cafe employee in tAnshui who killed an old couple she had befriended. Somehow she was going to get some money out of it or something? Cant remember the details. She was convicted. I think sentenced to death as well.
There are some gruesome murders in Taiwan. No doubt bout that.
[quote=“caramel”][quote=“headhonchoII”]My prejudices are confirmed by the way police did not collect evidence in a timely and professional manner
Then there’s the media here … [/quote]
Yes your prejudices, mine too.
What about the media in scotland who called zd an ethnic indian immigrant born in india? Is that any different to the press in taiwan you call racist for mentioning the same thing?[/quote]
No difference, only in scale. The media scrum and constant harping about Dean’s background was something else. His dodgy past made him more of a target of course.
When I wrote prejucides here, I point out my prejudices against the police. These have been founded over a decade of personal encounters and my understanding of their corrupt activities…or lack of activities which is usually the much bigger problem! As pointed out above, my views on the police are normal in Taiwan.
However I often appreciate the police’s haphazard and vague execution of their job, it has helped me avoid many traffic related fines (all for minor incidents and definitely no drinking involved). I much prefer encountering Taiwan’s police to American police, for example. Less chance of getting shot for one.
Ditto for my views on the media. Noting exceptional whatsoever.
It’s nice to use capital letters sometimes too. I hold some prejudices about that. 
This case is no longer about personal opinions of the Zain Dean verdict or how each of us feels about the Republic of China justice system. I don’t get the sense anyone here is going to change their minds anyway.
This case, and this thread, is now relevant because we have, for the first time, a western superpower, a kingdom that used to rule the world, also UN security council member, being asked to surrender one of its citizens over to a little island of Chinese rice farmers, masquerading as aristocrats.
Considering the circumstances of this case, and the fact that there is significant doubt about what actually happened that night, it is doubtful that the UK will send Mr. Dean back to the Republic of China.
Like it or not, this case is politics, not justice. All international extradition is politics, so please stop quoting ‘laws’ and ‘treaties’.
T
I think maybe some sort of accomodation will be reached. Dean will end up spending some jail time in Scotland … i.e. he wont be “scot free” for a while. This may satisfy the TW govt that jail time has been served. And the case gets dropped with Dean being permanently banned from re-entering tAiwan. Of if he did he would get jailed again to serve his original sentence.
So that will end that.
No one will know whether he drove the car for sure when it killed the scoot rider. Dean himself may not know being so drunk. Seems the only one that will know who killed the guy may be the KTV driver, if he did it. Because Dean may be so drunk as to NOT know exactly. And the scoot rider is dead. And if he was just hurt he may not have seen clearly who hit him if the car sped off.
The scoot rider’s family will still not be in any money, unless the TW govt sends some their way.
That’s a likely scenario.
By-the-way, the ROC was also on the UN security council so that in itself means little.
And maybe the UK press pointing out that Dean is of Indian extraction and born in INdia will influence the minds of the “real” Scots as to whether to “surrender” him or not.
It’s not like he was related to Robert the Bruce or something.
p.s. I guess legally the Scots can’t say “oh we think you may be guilty so we sentence you to serve XX months or years”. Instead they will hold him in detention "until such time as the case is resolved whether to send him back to Taiwan ". And this time ends up resembling the time he was sentenced to in Taiwan, minus a few months or a year or two.
Even in TAiwan he wouldn’t have served the full term. A 4 year sentence may result in not much more then half that time “for good behavior”.
So govt to govt , everyone keeps their head held high.
The Scots held onto him while his case was being determined, and the TW govt saw to it that Dean got some detention.
Everyone goes home happy so to speak. Except Dean.
i agree, but i suspect this case will be more of a financial settlement than a ‘time served one’.
If Scotland decides to put their national interest first and retain Mr. Dean, then money talks.
$150,000 pounds is nothing to make an international incident go away.
i agree. delay the ruling, hold Zain in jail for a few more months, then watch the TW delegation back off as the family is paid their restitution.
Just look at the $500,000USD that got those Berkeley Hippies out of Iran a few years ago. Governments have funds to make problems disappear.
Think of all the scotch they buy up here. Acer computers in Scotland.
$150,000 to end an international incident? Easy decision.
And don’t let this island get too high and mighty on the justice scales. it was only 7 years ago Shino Lin ran over that nurse and bought her way out of it for about the same amount of money at play here.
I guess Zain should have cried more…because this shows how on par the ROC is with the rest of the civilized world’s legal systems. :loco:
My poor lungs and my poor ears are polluted and overloaded with the prayers of those wanting nothing more than money round these parts. Such is this ancient culture.
T
I largely agree, but I don’t think Scotland is keen to part with any money. I think if it comes to that, they will rather part with Dean .
Sadly, the family is not going to ever get any money unless the TW govt coughs some up is my simple view.
Taiwan is not going to threaten Scotland with not importing its whiskey over this case. IT will likely only retaliate IF some Taiwanese is found in Taiwan while being sought back in Scotland by saying NO< we will keep him here.
Thats all.
We will happily send him your way if he is one of our citizens and he can’t prove his sentencing was political. Doesn’t take much digging to work that out.
Is he an Indian Citizen born in India or is he a British Citizen born in Britain? Does anyone actually know? If he is Indian then we should be asking what India intends to do about it. If he is British, he is fucked and you can have him back. Eventually. After more to-ing and fro-ing.
And I wouldn’t get too disappointed that the British press has mentioned his nationality. It’s just another nail in the ‘Taiwan is a backwater shithole’ coffin that some people like to cling to.
It’s not surprising to me that you wouldn’t be too disappointed about that.
A few years back, a survey conducted by the Executive Yuan’'s Research, Development, and Evaluation Commission contained the following item:
[quote]26. Current Status:
[color=#000080]Foreigner with ROC Nationality[/color]
Foreigner not living in Taiwan
Foreigner living in Taiwan with Permanent Alien Resident Certificate
Foreigner with a valid visa (including work visa, student visa, tourist visa)[/quote] michaelturton.blogspot.com/2009/ … -fail.html
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3#p1071363
[quote=“sandman”]. . . I’ve known [Zain Dean] for the last decade or more.
. . . he’s a Scot. . . .[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 1#p1129291
But thanks for offering to help me out with my thought processes.
It was the scottish press. Yes all those claiming western country presses would never do this. Its common practice. Same as alleged perps get plastered on the news as well.
Maybe zd was norn in india but he told people he was born in uk. I know people who have done that type of thing. Nothing of it really means anything.
Mr He is correct in that UK will most likely send this villain back. No gov is going to pay for this low life criminals actions to avoid extraditing him unless zd can prove his allegations. The standards of proof are very high and so far zd hasnt offered one bit of proof about any of his allegations about police corruption.
If the coppers are so corrupt why didnt he bribe his way out?
He’ll be returned to taiwan soon enough I believe.
Shades of yesteryear!
And even the year before that!
Is he a football player as well?
Thanks for bringing some levity to the convo.
If ZD’s possible extradition is causing an international incident, then it’s the lowest key international incident I have ever witnessed. A few foreigners here, a notice in a UK newspaper and that’s it.
Scotland is not going to pay for him staying, why would they do that? They rather put his convicted-of-DUI-vehicular-manslaughter backside on a plane back here and have it dealt with that way.
It is not really politics either. I have heard nothing from a UK politician, and not a whole lot from the Taiwanese politicians of late.