Zain Dean conviction--fatal hit & run case PART IV

Are you really? Have you taken a moment to ponder the seriousness of what this person has done? And please don’t continue with that “he’s innocent” nonsense. He’s had two trials which were monitored by the UK representative office. Not a peep out of them or any human rights organization. The UK then signs an agreement to extradite, enforces the civil judgment and now Dean has been ordered extradited. That says a lot. No one has offered any reason to believe he’s innocent, apart from unproven, blanket statements about supposed corruption or gangster KTVs. There’s been no concrete evidence offered to substantiate any of these claims from Dean and his supporters, but we’re all just supposed to believe it.

Fact is, he drove drunk, hit someone, fled the scene and left that person to die. Afterwards denied everything and left the country to avoid his sentence, leaving his friends to face the music. The mere existence of other fugitives does not make it somehow unacceptable for Taiwan to pursue this particular one.

But he’s going to release that video evidence he was going on about some time ago. Any day now… :laughing:[/quote]

Oh, I would never defend him. Please note I used the words, “convicted fugitive”. That should say something about how I feel about his guilt or innocence.

But there are a decent number of high profile convicted felons overseas. I forget where, I posted a list some time ago in whatever thread a year or so ago. So why this one?

  1. Politically safe to go after
  2. Redeem major loss of face
  3. Highly visible in the media (see number 2)

It seems they still don’t know where Andrew Wang is after all these years…and there are about 500 or so in China alone - more than one on murder charges.

My general experience is that as long as your case doesn’t end up in the media, you have a reasonable chance of getting a fair crack.

Were those guys actually convicted in the end?

Yes, people with knowledge and connections are treated differently here, they should however go after as many as they can.

Update

focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201408010042.aspx

So, when is he due to be shipped back here?

He will appeal. Realistic guess 2015.

If he had confessed and done the time in Taiwan, he’d be out by now…

(But I forgot, he’s not guilty.)

Will they add to his sentence or give him credit for time served in the UK ?

IN order not to waste tax payers money, shouldn’t they just have him serve out his sentence in a Scot prison?

Guess the Scots don’t want to house him either.

After he serves will he be given a ticket back out or will he have to pay?

Who will provide the tickets for him and his handlers to come back to the rock?

Tommy these are good questions. Don’t expect Taiwanese reporters to actually ask them. Journalism in Taiwan is about being seen, not being heard.

No, they are not good questions at all, sorry.

  1. He was sentenced to 4 years, and he went on the lam. The Taiwanese authorities have every right to start counting only when he actually shows up in a Taiwan jail. His remand time would come down to negotiation, however what does he have to negotiate with? Nothing. I think it mor likely that he gets additional time added on for fleeing the country, for using someone else’s passport and whatever else they can prove. The 4 years are more likely to turn to 8 if you ask me, however I am merely guessing.
  2. If the Scots extradite him, that means exactly that. They kick him out of the country into the care of the contry requesting the extradition, no chance they will let him serve out his sentence in Scotland. Odds are that he will be led to his airplane handcuffed, and he will remain that way until he lands in Taiwan. I do not think they would run the risk on him trying to do a runner during a stopover anywhere. Normally, the Taiwan government would pick up the bill for having him flown back.
  3. When he has finished his sentence, he will be expelled. The normal procedure is to keep him in the Sanxia Foreigners detention centre until his family ponies up the cash, however as do not want him to die of old age here, I would think they send him back to Scotland, or alternatively any place which will take him.

Just asking logistical questions here. Will he be escorted by Scotch police back to Taiwan or just till he clears immigration and is in the hands of Taiwanese police officers sent to collect him?

He may well be facing extra jail time for doing a runner and all that. Does anyone know if he will for sure? Does he have to make another court appearance to answer new charges?

Upon his release from jail and expulsion from Taiwan . Is he simply escorted until he passes immigration or until he gets on a plane?

The scots would most likely hand him over to the Taiwanese in the UK, I would think. In general, if you are extradited, they take a responsibility to have you sent to a certain place, this being Taiwan. It’s safe to assume that he will be escorted from the UK to Taiwan, with little chance of him making another runner while in transit. It is not a deportation, where they merely get him out of the country, they actually have an obligation to ensure that he ends up in the care of the ROC.

It is up to the Taiwan prosecutors what they want to do. They are unlikely to announce anything until he is safe and sound in a Taiwan prison. If they really wanted to have some fun with him, they could hold off until he is due fore release in 2018-2019, re-arrest him, and prosecute him for the runner etc. I however think they will start in the moment he is back in Taiwan, so they can arrange the extension of his stay well in advance.

Most deportations are basically a letter you get, however in his case I think you can assume that he will be escorted on a plane with the police officers present until the plane leaves the gate.

When I got deported from the US, 2 immigration officials were with us (there was me and one other going to Indonesia). The officer had to make sure I was through immigration in Taiwan, while the other was allowed to transit on her own to Indonesia (it’s not like the US would let her back in).

I guess all countries handle things differently however…

[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]When I got deported from the US, 2 immigration officials were with us (there was me and one other going to Indonesia). The officer had to make sure I was through immigration in Taiwan, while the other was allowed to transit on her own to Indonesia (it’s not like the US would let her back in).

I guess all countries handle things differently however…[/quote]

I’m sorry to hear you were deported. That sounds like an awful experience.

It’s a long time ago… wasn’t really my fault.

Agree that the prosecutors may be able to bring additional charges for the runner (if they haven’t already), and that if so they would start right away. I’m pretty sure, though, that it would be illegal under Taiwan law for the prosecutors to deliberately “hold off” for a number of years and then re-arrest him for an offense that they are already aware of.

Let’s not give the world the wrong impression about the Taiwan legal system. It’s partly because the Scots are confident that Taiwan has a reasonably fair and humane legal system that they are willing to go along with an extradition in the first place.

Agree that the prosecutors may be able to bring additional charges for the runner (if they haven’t already), and that if so they would start right away. I’m pretty sure, though, that it would be illegal under Taiwan law for the prosecutors to deliberately “hold off” for a number of years and then re-arrest him for an offense that they are already aware of.

Let’s not give the world the wrong impression about the Taiwan legal system. It’s partly because the Scots are confident that Taiwan has a reasonably fair and humane legal system that they are willing to go along with an extradition in the first place.[/quote]

I would not know what is legal, however would expect them to be under the obligation to act once they are able to do so, and not one moment later.

What I have heard is that the punishment for using fake documents to do a runner might be even harder than the 4 years he will return back to serve shortly. That would be an extremely unfortunate development for Mr. Dean.

[quote=“Mr He”]The scots would most likely hand him over to the Taiwanese in the UK, I would think. In general, if you are extradited, they take a responsibility to have you sent to a certain place, this being Taiwan. It’s safe to assume that he will be escorted from the UK to Taiwan, with little chance of him making another runner while in transit. It is not a deportation, where they merely get him out of the country, they actually have an obligation to ensure that he ends up in the care of the ROC.

It is up to the Taiwan prosecutors what they want to do. They are unlikely to announce anything until he is safe and sound in a Taiwan prison. If they really wanted to have some fun with him, they could hold off until he is due fore release in 2018-2019, re-arrest him, and prosecute him for the runner etc. I however think they will start in the moment he is back in Taiwan, so they can arrange the extension of his stay well in advance.

Most deportations are basically a letter you get, however in his case I think you can assume that he will be escorted on a plane with the police officers present until the plane leaves the gate.[/quote]

In the recent case where a female Taiwanese military officer went AWOL in the UK, she was escorted back to Taiwan by Taiwanese officials. It’s almost certain that this will be the case for ZD also.

I’m pretty sure all parties just want to get this over with. Here’s my best guess at what’s gonna happen:

ZD’s time behind bars in the UK will be considered as time served. There’s not much point in keeping him locked up and it’s good PR for Taiwan.

There’s no plea bargain that can be revoked, because the judge already threw the book at him during sentencing. So no extra jail time there.

And for any new offenses (and they are relatively minor offenses) he will be offered deferred prosecution if he settles the civil case immediately.

I think I disagree, Taiwan lost a fair bit of face, and when they get hodl of him, they will go after him - within the law that is.

First of all, there is no sympathy for Zain in Taiwan. The rest of the world, they do not care. So there is no gain for Taiwan in letting the time in remand in Scotland count against the sentence. Most important consideration would be to get him as much as they can, so 4 years would most likely mean 4 years from the day he arrives at the actual prison in Taiwan.

Secondly, settling the civil case fast might help, however I doubt Zain is on a position to do so. He does not have NT$10 million.Even if he did and he kept it in the UK, they could go for them while he sits in a Taiwan prison, as they already got a UK court to recognize the demand, making it directly executable in the EU. Little point for the Taiwanese to negotiate that point with him, they can just take the money.

Plea bargains do not exist in Taiwan.

Also, using a stolen passport would cost you 10 years in the slammer in the UK, something the Scottish judge probably took into account. I would not know what they would sentence him to in Taiwan, however it is not “minor”.

Zain’s options for getting a negotiated and easier settlement were wasted by him nearly 4 years ago, and nothing will bring them back. He has nothing to negotiate with, and being lenient will net the Taiwanese goverment nothing.

The UK government has no dog in this fight as long as he is treated in accordance with the laws of the ROC.

A horrible, horrible thought has crept into my mind.

Imagine they actually bring the guy back. Imagine the airport arrival, the media frenzy in anticipation, during and after. Imagine the set up scenes, the interviews with the man on the street… The vultures will feast for days.

[quote=“Icon”]A horrible, horrible thought has crept into my mind.

Imagine they actually bring the guy back. Imagine the airport arrival, the media frenzy in anticipation, during and after. Imagine the set up scenes, the interviews with the man on the street… The vultures will feast for days.[/quote]

And after 2 days he will be forgotten.

I do not buy that it changes the attitude Taiwanese have of foreigners in general.