Zain Dean conviction--fatal hit & run case PART IV

[quote=“Icon”]A horrible, horrible thought has crept into my mind.

Imagine they actually bring the guy back. Imagine the airport arrival, the media frenzy in anticipation, during and after. Imagine the set up scenes, the interviews with the man on the street… The vultures will feast for days.[/quote]

Good. Let’s give him a helmet and a kouzhao and call that that.

There’s 24 pages of humble pie to eat here, Mr. He:
lse.ac.uk/asiaResearchCentre … P3Wang.pdf

Didn’t he do a runner once before this one and then came back in under an alias? Anybody know what the previous alleged crime was?

Not by you, it would seem. I imagine you to have a cellar with newspaper cuttings adorning all the walls, and several burned-out effigies of him, their ashes smeared into the concrete where you have ritualistically mixed them with the blood of a freshly culled goat and the tails of seven neutered hedgehogs.

The questions are reasonable. If they were not, why did you take the time to answer them?

1.[quote] He was sentenced to 4 years, and he went on the lam. The Taiwanese authorities have every right to start counting only when he actually shows up in a Taiwan jail. His remand time would come down to negotiation, however what does he have to negotiate with? Nothing. I think it mor likely that he gets additional time added on for fleeing the country, for using someone else’s passport and whatever else they can prove. The 4 years are more likely to turn to 8 if you ask me, however I am merely guessing.[/quote]

Firstly, the passport is the property of the UK. Therefore, wouldn’t this mean that only the UK can bring charges for the fraudulent use of a travel document? Any charges filed in Taiwan would surely only cover deception, as the customs officers were deceived. Fraud must surely only relate to the document being used, but alas I am no expert.

Secondly, any fair and reasonable legal system would take time in remand as time served. Counting from the day he sets foot in Taiwan and not taking time served in remand into account only illustrates Taiwan’s immature behavior with regards to legal proceedings. Punish the guy for the crime, not Taiwan’s incompetence in allowing him to flee and any loss of face resulting from it.

Thirdly, although I respect a lot of your other posts on this forum, just exactly what is in it for you? I have rarely seen such glee and enthusiasm garnered from the demise and loss of liberty of another human being.
I still believe the trial was unprofessional. I still believe the police lied and made up stories and did not carry out the work which they should have done, (based on my own experiences, other peoples’ experiences, common knowledge of how the police work and on what was reported in the media specifically about this case), so regardless of whether he killed the rider or not, there undoubtedly has been some foul play somewhere in this case. The courts should be lenient. They have their man, and they’ve show how super fabulous they are - why can’t they leave it at that?
So, Mr. He. How much did you bet on him being extradited? How much money did he owe you? How many customers did his business take away from yours?Why are you so vindictively happy about another man’s ill-fortune? Why is it that every time there is a discussion about this case, it’s always YOU who has the the most to say and displays the most relish in saying it? Why are you not lobbying for the police to go looking for the less publicized case of the truck driver who wiped out a family last year, and then fled? Why don’t you mention the countless other injustices where people die on the road because of the inconsideration and irresponsible behavior of drivers, who then escape justice, that you hear about every week for on the news for ONE day only?

Regardless of what Zain has or hasn’t done, he is still a human being and you’d do well as one to remember that.

The past crimes that everybody likes to talk about are totally unrelated to this case and as I believe were related to copyright infringement. I’d love to have a look at the prosecutor’s office and home computers to make sure there are no copyright infringements going on there.

[quote=“Hokwongwei”][quote=“Icon”]A horrible, horrible thought has crept into my mind.

Imagine they actually bring the guy back. Imagine the airport arrival, the media frenzy in anticipation, during and after. Imagine the set up scenes, the interviews with the man on the street… The vultures will feast for days.[/quote]

Good. Let’s give him a helmet and a kouzhao and call that that.[/quote]

If only…

We work in media. That is a piece of “news” I do not want in my lap. Ugh.

Pirating Microsoft software, something the entire country was guilty of at the time.

There’s crimes and there’s crimes.

Wait, he had to a do a runner for pirating software? What’s the story here?

I don’t know about a runner part, but I think this article contains some information about the software-pirating part (but for all I know the article could be about pizza toppings, because I don’t know Chinese, and I’m relying on a machine translation):

finetpat.com.tw/chinese/default.asp?ID=2233

Basically, his company installed illegal versions of Microsoft and Adobe software and got a big fine. I don’t see why that would make him have to leave the country, though.

Seems to be a habit of his.

Not by you, it would seem. I imagine you to have a cellar with newspaper cuttings adorning all the walls, and several burned-out effigies of him, their ashes smeared into the concrete where you have ritualistically mixed them with the blood of a freshly culled goat and the tails of seven neutered hedgehogs.

The questions are reasonable. If they were not, why did you take the time to answer them?

1.[quote] He was sentenced to 4 years, and he went on the lam. The Taiwanese authorities have every right to start counting only when he actually shows up in a Taiwan jail. His remand time would come down to negotiation, however what does he have to negotiate with? Nothing. I think it mor likely that he gets additional time added on for fleeing the country, for using someone else’s passport and whatever else they can prove. The 4 years are more likely to turn to 8 if you ask me, however I am merely guessing.[/quote]

Firstly, the passport is the property of the UK. Therefore, wouldn’t this mean that only the UK can bring charges for the fraudulent use of a travel document? Any charges filed in Taiwan would surely only cover deception, as the customs officers were deceived. Fraud must surely only relate to the document being used, but alas I am no expert.

Secondly, any fair and reasonable legal system would take time in remand as time served. Counting from the day he sets foot in Taiwan and not taking time served in remand into account only illustrates Taiwan’s immature behavior with regards to legal proceedings. Punish the guy for the crime, not Taiwan’s incompetence in allowing him to flee and any loss of face resulting from it.

Thirdly, although I respect a lot of your other posts on this forum, just exactly what is in it for you? I have rarely seen such glee and enthusiasm garnered from the demise and loss of liberty of another human being.
I still believe the trial was unprofessional. I still believe the police lied and made up stories and did not carry out the work which they should have done, (based on my own experiences, other peoples’ experiences, common knowledge of how the police work and on what was reported in the media specifically about this case), so regardless of whether he killed the rider or not, there undoubtedly has been some foul play somewhere in this case. The courts should be lenient. They have their man, and they’ve show how super fabulous they are - why can’t they leave it at that?
So, Mr. He. How much did you bet on him being extradited? How much money did he owe you? How many customers did his business take away from yours?Why are you so vindictively happy about another man’s ill-fortune? Why is it that every time there is a discussion about this case, it’s always YOU who has the the most to say and displays the most relish in saying it? Why are you not lobbying for the police to go looking for the less publicized case of the truck driver who wiped out a family last year, and then fled? Why don’t you mention the countless other injustices where people die on the road because of the inconsideration and irresponsible behavior of drivers, who then escape justice, that you hear about every week for on the news for ONE day only?

Regardless of what Zain has or hasn’t done, he is still a human being and you’d do well as one to remember that.

The past crimes that everybody likes to talk about are totally unrelated to this case and as I believe were related to copyright infringement. I’d love to have a look at the prosecutor’s office and home computers to make sure there are no copyright infringements going on there.[/quote]

Why do you care about my posting habits?

I keep bringing it up for 2 reasons:

  1. It shows the hypocrisy of certain former posters - note that back then at least one of my friends was threathened with violence as a result of this. Rubbing it into their and your faces therefore makes sense to me.
  2. I like to see justice being served, and look forward to change my signature to “Welcome back Zain”.

I know that you likely were friends, but accept that he is guilty like the Scottish court did, and stop sniping at the messenger.

I don’t know about a runner part, but I think this article contains some information about the software-pirating part (but for all I know the article could be about pizza toppings, because I don’t know Chinese, and I’m relying on a machine translation):

finetpat.com.tw/chinese/default.asp?ID=2233[/quote]

I too am still wondering about that first case. Unfortunately, no one so far has helped to translate (or read and summarize) the relevant court documents, which are openly available. At the same time, Forumosans have been claiming anything from “using pirated copies of MS and Adobe software” to “Manufacturing and selling pirated copies of MS and Adobe software”.

I don’t understand much of the court docs of the case back then, but as far as I can tell it’s pretty sure not about selling pirated stuff, but about being the boss of a small company using illegal copies of MS and Adobe products on their own PCs. And yes, I am surprised that such things are punished at all in Taiwan - given that all pretty much all small companies I visited in Taiwan obviously used illegal copies of Windows, or at least of the expensive tools they use like AutoCAD.

[quote]jonathhank wrote:
I’m surprised that he could just arrive on the rock, get into some legal doodoo, leave the country, get a name change back in his homeland, and then return to the Rock as an entire fresh new person , and do this all over again ![/quote]

To my understanding (can’t find the doc right now, but I remember reading it) Zain also paid the fines back then - so if that was true it would make little sense to flee Taiwan and change one’s name to be “able to return”. So maybe (!) there is a chance that this interpretation of the facts is wrong (like the “fleeing to Kinmen” and “caught on video getting in the driver’s seat” stories on the news).

Here are the earlier court docs (some seem to be pretty much duplicate), maybe someone can shed some light on what they roughly say:

zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … tNj/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … b$n/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … 4Zi/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … EMm/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … b$n/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … XGk/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … uIj/latest
zaindean.piratenpad.de/ep/pad/v … U9R/latest

(Original links to the court website don’t work any more unfortunately, these are copies, some with google translated English at the end)

And here is an article by the BSA on the case, also mentioning the name changing as far as I can tell (business Software Alliance, an Anti-Software-Piracy organization):

ww2.bsa.org/country/News%20and%2 … lang=zh-TW

But what transpired before this case is not supposed to influence the findings in this case.

IIRC, he was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt of manslaughter and sentenced to 4 years on appeal in this case.

It is for this that he has been sought for repatriation.

He may be subject to other punishments for running away , etc.

Is he still a flight risk?
Would he be handcuffed to an air-marshal as he passed through the airport to the gate?
Would he sit in economy or premium economy?
How would he feel on board as he watches the flight map showing the Wan drawing nearer and nearer?
And, oh, the media scrum that will await him. Would he be ‘presented’ to them, or spirited away?

I almost feel like starting a fake “Zain I want your baby” campaign on facebook, that is how much the subjects annoys me. I mean him being famous like the noodle restaurant round the corner or even more and the xiaojies being the xiaojies they are…

[quote=“Nuit”]Is he still a flight risk?
Would he be handcuffed to an air-marshal as he passed through the airport to the gate?
Would he sit in economy or premium economy?
How would he feel on board as he watches the flight map showing the Wan drawing nearer and nearer?
And, oh, the media scrum that will await him. Would he be ‘presented’ to them, or spirited away?[/quote]

I wonder myself but I think, my two cents:

  1. he won’t be handcuffed as he is not a violent murderer being repatriated.

  2. likely to be at the back of the bus , possibly the very last row, sitting between two handlers and having to ask for permission to go to the loo. Not that he could get off the jet, but they are responsible for his behavior so they will likely keep an eye out for him.

  3. in his case , he will probably be paraded in front of the news hounds.

But if I was him, id like a reception akin to one for Michael Jackson because what the heck.

I’d wave and say hi to everyone. And proclaim them all wrong as usual.

(even if they weren’t)

Its not like people are going to attack him with sticks and stones or anything.

IN reality there may be very few newsmen around. Probably just a handful.

He will likely be handcuffed upon the jets arrival on the tarmac and be either the first to leave the jet (right after the First Class passengers if any) or be the very last one to leave the plane.

I think he will be serving the remainder of his time , possibly with some time off for good behavior and for time served. The ROC govt got him back and they will likely just want to end his time served ASAP and just get rid of him and declare him persona non grata. Even provide him a ticket back to the UK, possibly on a non-Taiwanese airline (so he is off tW soil ASAP) and bid him good riddance and leave it at that.

In the verdict of March 2011, the court refers to recidivism, that is, being a repeat offender, though not necessarily of the same crime. I’m not sure what effect, if any, the finding of recidivism had on the length of Mr. Dean’s original 2011 sentence. Anyway, here is a somewhat shortened version of a post I wrote back then:

The above looks like DWI and recidivism . . . with a sentence of five months.

The above looks like negligent homicide, with a sentence of one year and four months.

The above looks like fatal hit-and-run and recidivism . . . with a sentence of one year.

Five months for DWI, plus one year and four months for negligent homicide, plus one year for hit-and-run involving a fatality, comes to two years and nine months.

That tally seems to disagree with a NOW News article’s title, which gives Mr. Dean’s sentence as two and a half years. But it appears to agree with an article on The Wild East website:

[quote]* * *

After serving two years and nine months Dean faces expulsion. . . .[/quote]–Trista di Genova, “Worst-case scenario: Court rules guilty in Scotsman’s trial,” March 18, 2011

Additionally, as stated earlier, the court cites Articles 185-4 (fatal hit-and-run), 276 (negligent homicide), and 185-3 (DWI) of the Criminal Code, at the bottom of the judgment.

In another thread, two people wanted to know what this case had to do with the Microsoft case. I’m not one hundred percent certain, but I’m pretty certain that the use of the term recidivism in the court’s sentence was in reference to the Microsoft case.


Here is Part I, Chapter VI, Article 47 of the Criminal Code as it was around 1991:

I think this is the part of the court’s judgment–located near the top of the judgment that Feiren posted earlier in this thread–that refers to the software case:

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 0#p1286820

How do you manage to get 5 months in the slammer for pirating microsoft software. There was a fine of NT$5mil as well?

If you have a couple of computers with pirated software from microsoft, surely they would prefer you pay licensing fees, some fine on top and then leave it at that?

I skimmed through the old court files. I did not bother to translate them, however I looked at the software used, and the Adobe Creative Suite software he used is very expensive to buy, you are looking at US$2,500 and more notadays, and he did have them on more than one computer, a few actually. You are looking at a few hundred thousand NT$ to legally buy those. It was not a pirated office suite which took him down on that one, it was some very specialized tools which are expensive to buy, and which requires specially trained people to operate.

Adobe creative suite is STILL rampantly copied here , it just includes photoshop and illustrator etc. What he did was foolish but hardly unusual or uncommon. 5 months jail for that offense is completely ridiculous but the judge was under pressure to add time to the sentence.