Cryotherapy?


#1

Has anyone heard of a place that offers cryotherapy? Thanks.


#2

Any dermatologist clinic offers cryogen therapy and is fully covered by the National Health Insurance. It’s effective when used to remove wart and unwanted nevus. However it does take 2 to 3 treatments for difficult cases.

I am a practicing dermatologist and sees patients at pojen hospital in Taipei every tuesday and thursday morning. PM me if you need any help. Just helping a fellow formosan :slight_smile:


#3

Thanks for the answer. I was referring to the full body immersion type, that brings down the body temperature rapidly over 3 minutes. It is very popular among athletes nowadays.


#5

Don’t know of any colleagues in practice offering that type of service. Perhaps it is a business idea worth looking into. The large cryogen chambers aren’t cheap. I will ask my assistants to run some numbers to determine whether this could be a lucrative business investment in Taiwan.

Murdock and his business partner, Eric Rauscher, own Dallas-based CryoUSA, a therapeutic center boasting a pair of cryogenic chambers. Since its founding, CryoUSA has become a vendor as well, selling the Ukranian-made chambers for between $45,000 and $50,000 each. Murdock says he has sold at least 70 chambers to buyers across the country, including to 10 NBA teams. The New York Knicks, he says, have two.

http://healthcare.dmagazine.com/2014/05/19/whole-body-cryogenic-therapy-a-secret-weapon-for-recovery-or-sham-science/


#6

If I can tie this cryogen therapy business and apply it to the weight loss industry. Huge profits can be made as Taiwan consumers are infatuated with chasing the thin appearance.


#7

I am taking a trip to Hawaii next month and will try it there. It seems like a really interesting therapy and it is certainly popular with athletes around the world. There are about 5 or more centers offering it in Honolulu, which is a small city.


#8

If found in Taipei, please tag me


#9

Where. My legs take a beating. Sounds cool.


#10

You can get many benefits just soaking in a bathtub in ice water or taking cold showers. Just beware that if you undergo hyperthermia, which is the equivalent of 10 minutes of a cold shower, the benefits could be vitiated.

It works for athletes as it activates the lymphatic system so it doesn’t pool around in just one place, effectively taking out the lactic acid from sore muscles. And also lowering the temperature where inflammation takes place. Cold water causes vasoconstriction, which means blood has fewer places to run, forcing the heart to pump more efficiently throughout the body.


#11

Cold water also is effective against inflammation, as it lowers the temperature.


#12

Lactic acid isn’t what makes muscle sore, this is the though 10 years ago. Lactic acid leaves your body within hours. DOMs is the term used now for sports science. And inflammation is good in most cases, it’s your body healing by bringing blood to areas that needs it to heal and recover. So the icing the pitchers arm after the game is now no more. MLB teams don’t do that anymore and most sports trainers have gone away from icing.


#13

Well why the interest in cryotherapy then? It’s based on the same principle.

Lactate acid may leave the site as it is used up for energy, but the process leaves behind hydrogen ions, making the environment very acidic. Which, to me, is the same as blaming lactic acid, since that is what started it. Acid is never good for the body. Sugar is very acidic. Cold water supposedly contains more oxygen than hotter water, which has an alkalizing effect.

You may be confusing inflammation with infection. Yes, the body raises the temperature to help kill or weaken viruses and germs on its own. Cold water can be a superior method to the body’s unaided natural response as it activates the immune system and increases white blood cells in the blood, obviating the need for inflammation.

I don’t know that athletes don’t ice anymore, surely a good many still do. I imagine they may have better, more expensive, more technical, or alternative treatments, such as cryotherapy chambers, (which is the same concept), creams and such. Which attests to the fact that cold really does work, whatever the precise underlying mechanism be.


#14

This guy, always has to be right about something.

I’m telling you inflammation is your body’s response to speed up healing. Athletes now avoid NSAIDs since new science suggests they slow down recovery. Ice baths and icing is now a thing of the past. The new school of thought is they don’t help and may even be counter productive to healing. And yes, pitchers now mostly don’t ice their shoulder like they did in the 90s. I’m not saying icing is always bad, there are some cases icing can help if the swelling is too much. But it’s mostly avoided now for athletes. Again that’s the new school of thought and based on new studies. I’m sure many people still haven’t changed their minds about the subject. But sports science is always changing and advancing. And again. Latin acid concept of soreness is very last decade. It’s accepted that’s not the problem.

Icing can provide pain relief, for obvious reasons. But numbing something and making the pain go away isn’t the same as recovering. Like taking morphine for a broken leg doesn’t mean my leg is now not broken because I can’t feel the pain.

But I’m sure you’ll reply and try to nip pick something I said to have the last word and have to be right on something.


#15

From your response, I don’t think you read mine, or thought the process through its repercussions one minute. But never mind, here is recent research from 2009.

This study aimed to compare the efficacy of hot/cold contrast water immersion (CWI), cold-water immersion (COLD) and no recovery treatment (control) as post-exercise recovery methods following exhaustive simulated team sports exercise.

In comparison to the control and CWI treatments, COLD resulted in significantly lower (p<0.05) muscle soreness ratings, as well as in reduced decrements to isometric leg extension and flexion strength in the 48-h post-exercise period. COLD also facilitated a more rapid return to baseline repeated sprint performances. The only benefit of CWI over control was a significant reduction in muscle soreness 24h post-exercise. This study demonstrated that COLD following exhaustive simulated team sports exercise offers greater recovery benefits than CWI or control treatments.


#16

Other studies range from it hurting performance of elite athletes to helping only soreness. Again feeling less sore is not recovering. Athletes are especially susceptible to placebo. If you tell me wearing this helps me perform better most of the time I actually think so and feel better. Hell, I still do take cold baths and hot baths to feel better but the science is siding that there’s no real benefit to performance besides comfort and mental placebo. But I’m sure you’ll try to argue again. Maybe the bots are on in on my studies and obamas shadow government is behind this.


#17

In which studies does cold therapy hurt performance?

There is something to the placebo effect and may be hard to eradicate that factor in some of these studies. In the study I showed however, cold water significantly increased post-performance and soreness compared to contrast hot-cold. That couldn’t be placebo effect unless bizarrely, participants weren’t expecting anything for the hot-cold treatment and only for the cold.


#18

I think if you post links to studies that were done to help your argument it would be more effective.


#19

I’ve looked into it a little bit. There can sometimes be politics mixed in science, with scientist bias creeping in, ignoring data or highlighting data according to their prejudices. I think there may be that in this instance as well.

But on this issue, I think Andrew got a little bit confused about what he’s heard.

There are studies that are trying to say that cold water would make it harder for weight-lifters type of athletes, who are trying to create bulk of muscle that isn’t much useful in everyday life except to boost your ego. They say that it enlarges arteries. But this is known, everyone knows that cold water constricts blood vessels, but that is what makes them more efficient. So some of what the researchers are studying is based on their own bias. This one is 2006, bit older.

And there are of course other studies that contradict that. This one is 2015.

So it’s going back and forth.

But basically, where it seems to be going is that cool water helps develop slow-twitching muscles, which are the muscles you need for endurance, running, and such, the more useful muscles in life. And some of these studies are saying that cold water inhibits the growth of fast-twitching muscles, which are the high intensity, weight-lifting, etc. But again, it’s still going back and forth, it isn’t settled.

But I didn’t get into this, I was just talking about soreness and recovery, and that is still legitimate, it’s common sense, no controversy about it, at least as far as studies and science is concerned, and goes all the way back to Hippocrates. Cold water has been in use for therapy since the 1800s. Used to be hot water was a luxury, but we’re used to it now, but it’s actually not so healthy for us, not what nature intended for us.

Ultimately, though, the effect of cold water immersion on muscle growth may be somewhat of a moot point: The main reason athletes turn to cooling is to speed muscle recovery—something which is pretty well supported by scientific and anecdotal evidence, Pino says. Cold water constricts blood vessels, helping to flush by-products (like lactic acid) out of your lymph nodes and lower inflammation, both of which help reduce muscle soreness.


#20

Inflammation is your body’s process of recovery, latic acid is not a waste by product…it’s something a 1970s trainer would say and is certainly not the cause of soreness. I will concede that ice baths can make you feel better. But that’s not the same as recovery and becoming stronger. For the average person, sure go ahead and take an ice bath to feel better. But more and more elite athletes shy away from icing like MLB pitchers, taking ice baths, and taking anti inflammatory drugs. That’s not a coincidence

If you want to feel less sore and less pain, go ahead and take ice baths. I take it for my knee pain, but it’s a pre existing injury from a torn ligament so it’s a bit different and i’m trying to lessen the pain not recover as that’s not possible from natural recovery methods.


#21

Here’s the thing, I’m not saying not to take ice baths post workout. For most people, it’s not a big deal and it helps the pain and soreness from a long hard workout. When I used to play football 2 a days on a hot Texas summer where it was over 100F, we had tubs of iced water we jumped in after 3 hours in the hot sun pummeling each other with full gear and and a helmet. It felt great to jump into the ice water. You were beat up, bruises, hurt ankles, wrists feet etc, muscles were sore, you were hot. So yes, you can see why it’s so appealing to jump into that ice cold tub when it made all the pain go away. But the question here is that, does it actually help you recover. The new science says no, some even says it delays recovery. So the point Joham does not get is, he still believes the myth of latic acid and he doesn’t understand that inflammation is your bodys way of recovering. Why do you think when you hurt something, it becomes inflammed? It hurts, yes, and we are build to shy away from pain thinking it’s bad. Making inflammation go away makes the pain go away, but it doesn’t help it recover. So No pain does not equal good, recovered, or beneficial.