Feedback regarding Forumosa's Moderators 2004

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1

I, respectfully, request an explanation as to why the comments/interaction between Closet Queen and Durnis Bane, in regards to a gay forum, were cut out of Gus’ thread on the need for private forums?

Could not the mod who did this (Gus, himself?) have exercised a little patience to see where the posts were going before deciding to relegate it as “not appropriate” for the original thread? It seems like, all too often, someone will make a comment with a certain key word or phrase – in this instance “gay forum” – and the mod’s feel the need to banish it to it’s own thread or graft it to another thread.

I refer your attention to the last 3 posts at the end of page 3 and the first post on page 4. These were the ones moved:
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … c&start=15

In my opinion, they are related to Gus’ original question about the need for private forums. CQ had mentioned his previous request for a separate Gay forum. DB asked if CQ felt there was a need for a forum based on the same reasons that the Women’s Only forum was started.

How is this not relevant to a thread on the need for private forums? Why was this moved?

Please… please… mods, have a bit more patience and wait to see where something is leading before you prune and graft.

Jonathan

2

I moved it. I wanted to keep the discussion on track. Gus wants to talk about private forums, you want to talk about a new, “public” forum for gay issues. They’re not related. No hard feelings.

3

The poor old mods have had their work cut out over the last few days trying to keep some order among proliferating election/assassination threads. It’s a pity that the tenor of some of the “debates” is sinking into the gutter. You have my sympathy.

4

No hard feelings, but I still say, even though the underlying idea of those 3-4 posts was a gay forum, the question was being raised as to whether Closet Queen was asking for a private forum and why he felt it was necessary – did he feel that sometimes gays and gay issues were disparaged, like the women did and why they wanted a private forum. Which was the issue at hand.

However, this is only one of many times when whole threads or parts of threads get moved with no explanation, no notification, etc…

I’ve sometimes seen a new thread appear. I click on it to view it, only to find the first post makes no sense. Why? 'Cause it was in response to something from another post. There is often no reference, by the mods or anyone, as to where it comes from.

I’ve also recently had one of my posts moved to another forum. Now, the mods are in their right to do that. But, couldn’t the mod who did it have informed me, by PM, that it had been moved? It took me a bit of searching to find it (I even checked in the flounder forum).

I’m not trying to be bitchy, and I understand they have a hard job, especially of late. But, I think they could have a little more patience to see where post go, how and if it is responded to, how off-track it gets a thread (if at all), before they rip it out of its original thread and move it somewhere else.

They could also be so kind as to let us know, especially the original poster, where they moved it to. Or, give some kind of explanation “This was originally posted in this thread…” To make it less confusing for the readers and other posters.

Just my NT$2. You are all, as usual, within your right to criticize it or ignore it.

5

I hear you. Where we fail, it is mostly because of time constraints, not out of maliciousness. All of the mods (and Admin) volunteer their time, and through donations, even pay for the privilege of being second-guessed. That’s natural, and I don’t think anyone here resents it. We do the best we can, and we listen to ALL of the feedback we get, even if we choose not to act upon it.

I don’t notify of any changes when I split/merge/reorganize threads, because I would have no time for anything else. As it is, the freaking election has resulted in a HUGE increase of traffic here, which in turn makes things so much busier for us. And now Gus wants to talk about private forums. Sheesh. He couldn’t have picked a slow news week?

6

um can i call on wolf or cranky as this forums moderators to moderate on this since it’s about to kick off big time one feels…i’ve already been warned by bu lai en and have agreed to tone it down but we need some real moderators on this toute suite…

7

I for one am not asleep at the wheel.
I see nothing untoward here. Good, spirited debate is encouraged. Being told to “cool it off” or other such language breaks no rules.
The debates have been pulling in opinions and are not just, “You’re a jackass,” “No, you’re a bigger jackass.”
I favor much latitude in discussions. No one is instantly banned for fiery posts. However, there are limits (no one has been close to them here so far) and it is worth remembering that logical arguments always win over character assassination.
I wonder if the focus on ethnic divisions is not perhaps looking at the symptoms rather than the cause. Is not the nut of the problem here one of “Taiwan first,” instead of simply who was born where or who came here first? The fact that the lines contain somewhat drawn ethnic factions is a byproduct of the question of identity for Taiwan.
But remember that this topic is the March 27 demonstration, not ethnic divisions (although disussion of this can be germain).

8

ok thanks for that wolf…my one worry was that fluffy was using his mod status to threaten other posters into silence but the balance of forum opinion is going so far against him he hopefully won’t try that move again (a very KMT style tactic BTW)

and big ups to jive turkey for his very pertinent post…couldn’t have said it better myself…if only more taiwanese would see the KMT for what it is and stop voting with their bank books…somethings are more important than profit on the stock market

9

I’ll second Wolf’s remarks.

I freely admit to keeping a stricter hand on the Culture & History forum than on Taiwan Politics. This, however, is not from a lack of attention; I’ve been watching everything that comes through here.

Different forums have different tones. As politics is perhaps an innately emotional topic and these are especially emotional times, a certain amount of spillover from the tension of the past few weeks is to be expected and may even be a good thing if it helps provide an outlet.

In the heat of things, however, it may be too easy to forget the contributions of others in the Forumosa.com community. Just because a poster makes remarks that some may believe indicate seriously delusional thinking doesn’t mean that person has necessarily joined Satan’s minions.

I’m not without concerns about some of the things that have been posted here. Given the subject matter and the unusually tense atmosphere in society, however, I think posters in this forum have done pretty well so far.

10

[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]
I favor much latitude in discussions. No one is instantly banned for fiery posts. However, there are limits (no one has been close to them here so far) and it is worth remembering that logical arguments always win over character assassination.[/quote]

Well and truly off topic:

Gentlemen, fine etc. but I see a trend here, which I find worrying, and which I hope that you can make clear among the moderators internally. If you are already doing it, then disregard this post. That is that moderators of other forums at forumosa are told not to warn people off in private or in public using their privilege.

As far as I has seen, both Bu Lai En and Fluffy have done this in public or in private. When debating even a heated topic, they should least not add lead to their boxing gloves by “warning people off” - and it should be a big no-no to do so. I will respect a slap over the wrist from any moderator of a given forum any time, as long as I get the chance to explain my actions and/or make amends. However, if I like Bear64 was PM’ed by a moderator of another forum here on forumosa telling me to cool off, I would - once I discovered that the person was not moderating the forum where the "transgression " took place - certainly moan to the moderator of the forum and send a stern reply to the moderator (?) trying to quell the debate.

If you believe in free speach - within bounds - on forumosa, then you should not abuse any privileges to gain leverage in a debate yuo are losing. To do so smack of totaliarism, and we are all against that, I hope.

11

For reference purposes: This thread was split from [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/3-27-demo-and-others-what-a-riot/8627/146 27 demonstration - what a riot![/url] in the Taiwan Politics forum.

12

To clarify things a little, what I was warning against was making any more “bastard waishenren” comments. I don’t think it’s an abuse of the little power I have to take action against posters who make racially motivated comments.

13

:fume:

I don’t think lying is a good strategy, Fluffy.

:fume:

No racist comments against waishengren have been made, and the only out of bonds behavior has been coming from you and bu lai en.

I asked you for an apology when you compared me to Chiang Kai Shek.

Now, I would say that the only decent bahavior from you and Bu lai en would be to say sorry to the forums for abusing your status.

It’s not a matter of who being supportive of DPP or KMT because of the ethnic background of one’s spouse any more, it’s basically a matter of acceptable bahavior and democratic values.

Both you an Bu Lai En have failed miserably at this, and should at the very least acknowledge this.

14

Also to clarify:

I sent bear64 a PM telling him that ethnic slurs like ‘bastard waishengren’ were not acceptable. Neither would be ‘fucking blacks’, ‘wanker jews’, ‘arsehole Taiwanese’ etc.

At the time, the Taiwan Politics forum had not been created and the thread was in ‘my’ Open Forum. Me and Maoman set the standards there, and that sort of thing isn’t allowed. If Cranky and Wolf want to allow ethnic slurs in their forum, fine - I’ll oppose it in public. I only send warnings for my own forum.

Brian

15

As Bu Lai En mentioned, the [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/will-foreigners-be-allowed-to-stay-if-war-breaks-out/8566/51 waishengren"[/url] remark was in Open, which is his turf and thus subject to his modding. For that matter, that thread is still in Open, which is fine by me.

I haven’t said anything about allowing ethnic slurs in Taiwan Politics, and I don’t believe Wolf has either.

Should anyone have problems or concerns about specific posts in the Taiwan Politics forum, feel free to PM me or Wolf – or write about them here in the Feedback forum. Please be sure to provide quotes and links.

Thanks.

16

Frogging Martians. . . …

17

Mr He does have something there. The question is how much involvement can a moderator have in a forum that is not his or her’s?
When I see something questionable, I PM the mod of that section, I do not post anything directly, although I have made an allusion or two in public for a poster to think about what they are doing.
Personally, I think that specific complaints ought to be PMed to the particular person in charge of the section, ie, I ought not to admonish a poster in a section that I do not moderate (even if I think it is warranted).

18

[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]Mr He does have something there. The question is how much involvement can a moderator have in a forum that is not his or her’s?
When I see something questionable, I PM the mod of that section, I do not post anything directly, although I have made an illusion or two in public for a poster to think about what they are doing.
Personally, I think that specific complaints ought to be PMed to the particular person in charge of the section, ie, I ought not to admonish a poster in a section that I do not moderate (even if I think it is warrented).[/quote]

Perhaps. But, I’m not certain that would make any recipient of such a PM any happier… he/she would likely cry just as loudly that he/she was being censored. Heck, I have folks telling me that I abuse my moderator “power” in the IP forum. Hell, I don’t censor anyone.

19

But you moderators should know each other?

I mean if Wolf PM Tigerman saying that Mr. He. has crossed the line in a forum, then Tigerman would surely not feel offended?

I have had slaps over the wrist from a moderator before and well, I just made amends.

20

Well, I know some, but some I’ve never met. I haven’t had the pleasure yet of meeting wolf.

[quote=“Mr. He”]I mean if Wolf PM Tigerman saying that Mr. He. has crossed the line in a forum, then Tigerman would surely not feel offended?

I have had slaps over the wrist from a moderator before and well, I just made amends.[/quote]

True, I wouldn’t be offended. But I wouldn’t regard it as anything other than a “heads-up”.

I don’t know how well or if you (and others) know about the banning policy here. No one mod can ban anyone. We have a committee of mods who can suggest that someone be banned. If a mod suggests that a person be banned, we will deliberate for 5 days and then make a decision. It takes 6 mods to agree on a ban for a person to be banned.

Given our different personalities and varying degrees of tolerance and acceptance of different forms of expression, I doubt that you would have been banned for your discussion with BFM. In fact, BFM never proposed that you be banned. I know that I wouldn’t have voted to ban you, as I appreciate that political debate is by its nature often emotionally charged even as people seek to use logic to support their views. I cannot speak for BFM, but I think he was just trying to cool down the discussion without having a chilling effect on the same. If he really wanted to use his “power” as a mod, he would simply have proposed a ban… but, like I said, he never did that.

It can be difficult treading the thin line between trying to cool things down without having a chilling effect on discussion.

BFM, I hope I’m not too far off the mark in what I think you were trying to do…