And right you are too. Especially when your son’s involved.
I recall one awful trip to the zoo in China many years back with my son where we quickly turned into the best exhibit in the joint. Although they mercifully stopped short of granting us the peanut tossing meted out to the other poor inhabitants of that very sad place my lad was clearly not enjoying the attention and me neither. Stupidly I adoted the attitude that ‘they don’t get to see many foreigners’ and promptly spoiled our day’s outing. Who knows what damage that could do to a kid over the long term.
What gets me about the stares here in Taiwan is that I’d expect better. For chrisake this is Taipei not Urumuqi! Most Taiwanese seem to have been overseas but the stares just remind me that this place (Taipei) lacks the sophistication of a real international city.
The one method I adopt here is to respond to hearing “wei guo ren” by asking “so your’e an aborigine, eh? If not then I guess we’re both 'xin Taiwan ren” (New Taiwanese). It amuses me if nothing else.
I agree that over reaction is inappropriate. But I still believe that pointing out a parent’s responsibility - when that responsibility involves the obligation not to cause my son or myself discomfort - is appropriate.
I’m not certain where this notion of “humiliating” the parents came from in this discussion. As I don’t fault the children who stare, point and or giggle, I direct any statement I may make to the parent/s, and I have never attempted to humiliate them in front of their children.
In fact, I make a point of approaching the parents in such rare cases and speaking to them face to face… the children never hear what is said and I do not exhibit a menacing demeaner. In any event, the children are too young to understand and thus the parents are not “humiliated” in front of their children. If the parent/s feel any humiliation, perhaps it is from a sense of shame… in which case, my statement would have been appropriate. No offense, no need to feel shame.
I agree that over reaction is inappropriate. But I still believe that pointing out a parent’s responsibility - when that responsibility involves the obligation not to cause my son or myself discomfort - is appropriate.
I’m not certain where this notion of “humiliating” the parents came from in this discussion. As I don’t fault the children who stare, point and or giggle, I direct any statement I may make to the parent/s, and I have never attempted to humiliate them in front of their children.
In fact, I make a point of approaching the parents in such rare cases and speaking to them face to face… the children never hear what is said and I do not exhibit a menacing demeaner. In any event, the children are too young to understand and thus the parents are not “humiliated” in front of their children. If the parent/s feel any humiliation, perhaps it is from a sense of shame… in which case, my statement would have been appropriate. No offense, no need to feel shame.[/quote]
In that case, Tigerman, you are the man. Thanks for the explanation.
The “humiliation” part of my response was due to thinking back to a few instances I’ve witnessed. Didn’t mean to suggest that you would ever do anything like conk some annoying kid’s ma or pa over the head with an empty Duvel bottle or anything like that.
I’m with Tigerman. (Oh my god! That’s twice in a year! Maybe I need a vacation?)
How else can inappropriate behaviour be corrected? Explaining to someone that being stared and pointed out is unpleasant might be all it takes to make them realise that they’re behaving badly. Without a ‘quiet word’ I think most Taiwanese simply would not realise what they are doing, and will be most apologetic when you enlighten them.
But of course the situation arises very rarely here, relatively speaking. I once spent two days on a ship with 2000 Indonesians who thought it was funny to take turns asking me my name the whole time.
[quote=“tigerman”]I direct any statement I may make to the parent/s, and I have never attempted to humiliate them in front of their children.
[/quote]
A number of years I was taking the 605 bus from Hsichih to Taipei with my then 6 year old son (fluent in Mandarin, Taiwanese, English and Dutch). The bus was crowded as usual and across the aisle from us was a woman sitting with her son about the same age as mine.
In order to entertain the tyke she began pointing to us and telling him to look at the hairy monkeys. All the people sitting around us started snickering and grinning to each other. I tried to ignore it but my son started getting upset and the stupid bitch just would not shutup.
So I humiliated her very loudly in Mandarin in front of her son and all the other (now shocked) passengers. I discussed her fish-like face, her lack of culture and intelligence…everyone was very quiet.
[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“tigerman”]I direct any statement I may make to the parent/s, and I have never attempted to humiliate them in front of their children.
[/quote]
A number of years I was taking the 605 bus from Hsichih (Xizhi) to Taipei with my then 6 year old son (fluent in Mandarin, Taiwanese, English and Dutch). The bus was crowded as usual and across the aisle from us was a woman sitting with her son about the same age as mine.
In order to entertain the tyke she began pointing to us and telling him to look at the hairy monkeys. All the people sitting around us started snickering and grinning to each other. I tried to ignore it but my son started getting upset and the stupid bitch just would not shutup.
So I humiliated her very loudly in Mandarin in front of her son and all the other (now shocked) passengers. I discussed her fish-like face, her lack of culture and intelligence…everyone was very quiet.
She got off at the next stop. Fuck’em I say.[/quote]
I have no problem with that. In the situations I was referring to, it was the children who were doing the staring, pointing and or giggling. If adults do such things, or if they encourage their children to do such things, especially in the situation you described, well, they need a good telling-off.
Kids don’t bother me…but I hate the adults teaching them that crap. When they grow up it’s not surprising that they mistreat their Indonesian maids without any guilt…after all, foreigners are no different than monkeys.
Honestly, I don’t see why people get so worked up over this. I mean, for those of you who are teachers, don’t you stand in front of a class and get stared at for a living? If people on the street are a little socially awkward but interested, where’s the harm in being friendly? Especially to kids.
I haven’t heard anyone call me a monkey yet, but if I am ever so fortunate, I think I would turn around and play along with it–turn the joke around, so to speak. Rage just doesn’t seem very worthwhile, and I’m frankly surprised by how many people here react that way.
I don’t worry about the staring from the kids too much. I usually smile back and be friendly – might as well make their interaction with a foreigner as friendly as possible so that they don’t grow up xenophobic little monsters.
I was visiting Taroko Gorge once and came upon a family watching a bunch of monkeys. The littlest kid still had his hand pointing up toward the monkeys when he turned his head, saw me and let out a really loud: “AHHHHDOHWAAAAAH!” To which I said in Mandarin: “Nope! Those are monkeys.”
I’m new to Taiwan, after a couple years in Korea. I’ve only been here a few days, but so far staring and pointing seems to be a lot less than korea. My paranoia is definitely lifting, being here.
I think I get the staring and pointing worse than other foreigners because there are more caucasian foreigners who blend in better than black people. I drew the line at the old woman humping the handicap ramp bar (I don’t want to know what muscle she was stretching) who pointed at me to her friend and said something about the ‘heiguei’. Normally, my response to being stared and pointed at by these perverse old bags would be to shake my head reproachfully and walk on, but on that day I let make some rather nasty comments under my breath that I’d rather not repeat. I tolerate staring by staring back, but racist comments go beyond my scope of patience. And I try to avoid the MRT on the weekends when the country bumpkins come flocking into the city and whole families will stare, point, and laugh. I find walking over to a family and making an example of them by staring intently on the father for the duration of my ride until he squirms and it’s no longer funny to the rest of them works fairly well. Then when they or I get off the train, I smile, wave at the shocked, shamed family and tell them bye.
I honestly don’t feel stared at here in Taiwan. I don’t know how you guys look like, but if you’re just an average foreigner, not too tall, not too big, then I don’t see a problem here. Stop complaining and see how it feels to be foreigner in Mainland…
Chinese New Year also brings a lot of rednecks on to the subways who think it’s smart to point and talk about the foreigners… Geez. My friend makes fun of the starers, but I can’t be bothered.
Chinese New Year also brings a lot of rednecks on to the subways who think it’s smart to point and talk about the foreigners… Geez. My friend makes fun of the starers, but I can’t be bothered.
Kenneth[/quote]
Actually, when I think about it, I guess I stare at some foreigners, too. I’ve seen some pretty weird waiguoren here (I’m not saying you, Ken, although you never know).
I honestly don’t really notice that much staring, either. I’ve noticed that most people here barely pay any attention to the people around them when they’re walking in the crowds - which makes sense considering the crowded conditions. People here walk around with their eyes very self-consciously fixed ahead ignoring others, never meeting eyes with or glancing around at the other people. In an overcrowded urban environment paying only attention to your own personal space makes sense…however, it’s quite different from the public friendliness I’m used to in small-town America. I got more “stared at” (that is, people acknowledging my existence by looking at me for a few seconds) and “bothered” by strangers being “horribly rude” by saying “Hello” back home in the States.
A potentially racist observation of my own here: most of the pointing, staring, spitting, standing still on the escalators types seem to be talking Taiwanese rather than chinese. And don’t even get me started on what it’s like being stuck behind one of those people at supermarket check-outs.
Are the Mandarin-speakers genuinely more sophisticated?
A potentially racist observation of my own here: most of the pointing, staring, spitting, standing still on the escalators types seem to be talking Taiwanese rather than Chinese. And don’t even get me started on what it’s like being stuck behind one of those people at supermarket check-outs.
Are the Mandarin-speakers genuinely more sophisticated?[/quote]
I think those people who have such great difficulties with people looking at them should lobby the city government to designate one car on each MRT train as foreigner only. They should also ask for that car to carry free tissues for those who are crying after being stared at on their way to it.