Hi guys,
I have a question, can you have decent amount of money of teaching English oversea like in Japan, Taiwan, or even HongKong. I’m a graphic designer and I’m thinking of teaching English in either Hong Kong or Taiwan. But I don’t know how good the pay is. I would really like to get some advices from you all who have been teaching oversea for quite awhiel. Any suugestions?
[quote=“iamlovingit”]Hi guys,
I have a question, can you have decent amount of money of teaching English oversea like in Japan, Taiwan, or even HongKong. I’m a graphic designer and I’m thinking of teaching English in either Hong Kong or Taiwan. But I don’t know how good the pay is. I would really like to get some advices from you all who have been teaching oversea for quite awhiel. Any suugestions?[/quote]
Serious question? 
Yes, I’m planning to go back to Taiwan and teach and I have certain doubts.
Now back to the topic, I’m planning to get a teaching credential so I can teach oversea. I’ve been to Taiwan before (2 years ago) and I love their food, culture, and night markets. It almost felt like a paradise. I heard there’s a website that recruit english speaker to teach english in asia. I would hear some experience from you guys who have done this before. Do they also provide you with an apartment to live in?
[quote=“iamlovingit”]
Now back to the topic, I’m planning to get a teaching credential so I can teach oversea. I’ve been to Taiwan before (2 years ago) and I love their food, culture, and night markets. It almost felt like a paradise. I heard there’s a website that recruit english speaker to teach english in asia. I would hear some experience from you guys who have done this before. Do they also provide you with an apartment to live in?[/quote]
Ok, seriously then. Your posts are full of grammatical and spelling errors, amongst other things, which would indicate that you’re not a native speaker (yes, I realise we all make typos, but the type and frequency of errors you make aren’t casual). That’s your first, but not necessarily largest stumbling block. Your second problem is your ethnicity. Your signature claims you’re “100% Taiwanese”, and if that’s true that may very well (along with the previous point) be your undoing. However, even then you may still find teaching jobs in Taiwan, but you would be hired as a local teacher (if you have HHR and citizenship) which means substantially lower pay than a native speaker, or someone who looks like one (i.e. Caucasian).
A teaching credential may help, or it might not. It would very well depend on where you are from. If you’re not “100% Taiwanese” as your signature claims, then you would need to be a passport holder from the US, Canada, Ireland, the UK, South Africa, Australia or New Zealand to be able to get a work related ARC to teach legally in Taiwan. And only then would any sort of teaching credential be of any use to you.
Should you meet any of the above in order to actually get a legal job in Taiwan, then the bad news really begins. The English teaching job market in Taiwan has been declining for years. By that I mean, schools have been closing, those that have stayed in business have lost students (due to economics, and birth rate issues), and hourly pay has remain stagnant for the better part of the last decade or declined. In order to survive, you may very well need two or more positions as it’s highly unlikely that one school would be enough to cover your financial needs (although this isn’t impossible, it would be even harder if you aren’t a native speaker, don’t look like a native speaker, don’t come from one of the aforementioned countries, or attempt to get around the legalities by studying Chinese and working illegally - which I wouldn’t advise, as penalties are stiff with automatic deportation).
Also, I would avoid recruiters and agents like the plague for two very good reasons (amongst many):
Long story short, the situation is far from ideal even under the best of circumstances.
That said,
the topic of this thread is blacklisted schools, not advice for job seekers in the English teaching industry in Taiwan. There are threads for that topic and you should do a search with the search function at the top right hand corner of the page, or do a manual search through the Teaching English in Taiwan forum. So basically, all of this is OT and is sure to be split off to temp or merged with an existing thread by the moderator.
On another note, if you are a qualified graphic designer with experience it may be a better idea to see if you can get a job in that area. Then again, there are also various issues and potential stumbling blocks depending on whether you’re Taiwanese or a foreigner (and if so, what credentials you hold and how much actual experience). I should also mention, that in such a scenario, starting positions also don’t offer much in the way of money as Taiwan is bursting at the seams with locally produced graphic designer, programmers etc willing to work long hours seven days a week for a pittance.
But seriously, do a search on these subjects and find an appropriate thread to ask your questions as there are other people who may have more information on both (graphic design and teaching) options.
Thank you for your advices and yes, I am 100% Taiwanese. I immigrated to the U.S at the age of 10 with my parents. I didn’t know that the job market for teaching abroad was that bad. I guess I seriously need to do more research in this specific field. Since I am not a native speaker, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to offer me a job in teaching and that can be a major drawback.
Sigh…
[quote=“iamlovingit”]Thank you for your advices and yes, I am 100% Taiwanese. I immigrated to the U.S at the age of 10 with my parents. I didn’t know that the job market for teaching abroad was that bad. I guess I seriously need to do more research in this specific field. Since I am not a native speaker, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to offer me a job in teaching and that can be a major drawback.
Sigh…[/quote]
Well, that being the case you could look into various options, all of which will depend on whether you still have HHR, Taiwanese citizenship, an ID Card, your age etc, as these would influence your options and things like conscription.
Seriously, do a few searches for threads on topics like conscription and Taiwanese/ABCs teaching English in Taiwan. There are loads of threads on these topics that should help you out and aid you in making decisions about coming here. There are many routes you could take, but this isn’t the thread for seeking the answers to your questions.
Use the search function and check out the Living in Taiwan, Teaching English in Taiwan and Legal Forums.
Best of luck.
core-corner.com is hiring ABCs. They DO NOT give work permits so you have to be a citizen. Pay is pretty crap but they will load you with hours. They only to private lessons in their office.
But don’t despair, the good news is that local graphic designers are a dime a dozen and there’s no market for individual creativity or innovation, so the going rate in that field is a fraction of what English teachers make.
Sorry bub.
Hi, iamlovingit, and welcome to the board!
[Edit] Dang, I got so involved in side issues that I forgot your question.
In the past, posts on this board and other evidence gave me the impression that the standard hourly rate for foreign teachers here was NT$600 per hour. However, recent posts seem to suggest that the rate may have gone down some. As was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, some foreign teachers have an adequate number hours at one job, but some wind up combining two or more jobs that have a lower number of hours. In either case, I would say that some are doing well, some are getting by all right, and some are struggling–maybe relative newcomers are especially prone to be in the “struggling” category. However, I’ve also gotten the impression from the board that some relative newcomers are getting by all right or even doing well.
My case may not be within the norm here. I’m at work eight hours a day, six days a week, on a monthly salary of NT$55,000 and with free housing valued at NT$7,000 per month, for a total monthly compensation of NT$62,000. I guess that’s not much, but I have a light teaching schedule, and the rest of the time I write various materials, occasionally look for public-domain materials on the 'net, and do various odd jobs. Usually my nose is not continuously to the grindstone; my job is usually not very difficult. I’ve never been able to figure out whether I’m one of the ones who are “messing the rest of us up by accepting lower pay,” 
or whether I’ve got a reasonably nice thing going. 
Now back to the side issues. [End Edit]
Considering that you are a non-native speaker, your English is good. Based on your posts, I would say that it is better than that of most of the local teachers here, and generally their English is not bad and is adequate for teaching young learners (I taught adults in Korea, but I’m not familiar enough with the adult-learner scene to have an opinion about it).
I recently had a look at some Ministry of Education figures for elementary school, junior high school, high school, and vocational school enrollment
[color=#FF0000]*[/color]
, which I think is a decent set of indicators for one element of demand for cram school teachers (although obviously there are probably other elements), and according to the MOE:
In 2000 there were about 1.9 million students enrolled in elementary schools here. By 2009, there were only about 1.6 million. So there has been a substantial loss in elementary school enrollment in the past ten years or so. However, the junior high school student enrollment was higher in 2009 than in 2000. It’s declined a little from a peak in 2003, but it’s remained fairly stable in the past ten years (unless there was a major change last year). Senior high was also higher in 2009 than in 2000, but peaked in 2005 and declined between 2005 and 2009. Vocational school was lower in 2003 than in 2000, but higher in 2009 than in 2003 (with somewhat of a decline between 2005 and 2009). To sum up, elementary school numbers have gone down quite a bit, but junior high, senior high, and vocational school numbers don’t look too bad just yet, as far as I can tell.
While the decline in elementary school enrollment is noteworthy, I suspect the bulk of the difficulty with job-seeking here (which I think is related to the pay issues that are occasionally discussed on the board) is connected to an increase in competition in this field over the past, say, ten years, combined with a walloping economic blow in 2008. But it also seems to me that people here have been unhappy, disappointed, worried, etc., about the economy since considerably before the Lehman Brothers thing.
Like quite a few things in life, it seems like a dice roll. I think it could go either way, or somewhere in between (sorry, wish I could be more definite :s ).
I started off in Korea, and back then I sort of viewed this whole thing as a last-ditch effort to get something going where I could sustain myself and make debt payments (and I still sort of see it that way). Not to make a big dramatic deal out of it, but when I think now about the sorts of things that were on my mind back in early 2001, right before taking the plunge, I’m put in mind of this song:
[quote]A month of nights, a year of days,
Octobers drifting into Mays;
I set my sail as the tide comes in
And I just cast my fate to the wind.[/quote]–Vince Guaraldi and Carel Werber, “Cast Your Fate to the Wind”
I’m not suggesting that you cast your fate to the wind, but whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck. 
[color=#FF0000]*[/color]
There’s an Excel (spreadsheet) page of those and other figures here, and if you don’t have Excel, there’s a (probably temporary) Google cache in html format here.
Thanks Charlie Jack. It seems like you’re doing pretty well. Getting monthly salary rate at about NT55,000 and with free housing provided is considered extremely well paid, well at least in Taiwan. On an average, the college graduates or white-collar workers salaries range from NT20,000 to NT40,000 which is low but since the living standard cost is not as high compared to other countries, so it is manageable. I assume you’re a native speaker?
Is this correct: you work eight hours a day, six days a week and your total compensation is $62,000???
I know the English teaching situation has been in decline but I did not imagine that it had gotten to that level.
Interesting juxtaposition:
[quote=“mpallard”]Is this correct: you work eight hours a day, six days a week and your total compensation is $62,000???
I know the English teaching situation has been in decline but I did not imagine that it had gotten to that level.[/quote]
with
iamlovingit, it’s been quite a while since my last job search, so I’m not sure what the situation is like now. Also, your situation is different from mine. You may encounter difficulties because of your ethnicity. However, I’m going to guess you’re much younger than I am (I’m 57), so you’ve probably got that going for you. I’m also going to guess that there’s a fairly good chance that eventually your combination of backgrounds will begin to work in your favor in some way or another. (I realize that’s kind of vague.)
However, I don’t know what advice to give you about whether to come over here, because I’m not knowledgeable enough in these kinds of things.
[Edit] Sorry, I forgot to answer your question:
Yes, I was born in the U.S. [End Edit]
Why do people keep comparing salaries of native English speaking English teachers with that of the average office worker? Apples and oranges.
[quote=“CraigTPE”]
Why do people keep comparing salaries of native English speaking English teachers with that of the average office worker? Apples and oranges.[/quote]
Exactly! Your average Taiwanese office worker earning an average of $NT30k per month is unlikely to have a student loan debt of over $NT1,000,000 like the average English teacher.
Actually that’s a very sweeping generalisation but sometimes I feel that the locals need to look above and beyond the headline rate of $60k per month or whatever
[quote=“iamlovingit”]Hi guys,
I have a question, can you have decent amount of money of teaching English oversea like in Japan, Taiwan, or even HongKong. I’m a graphic designer and I’m thinking of teaching English in either Hong Kong or Taiwan. But I don’t know how good the pay is. I would really like to get some advices from you all who have been teaching oversea for quite awhiel. Any suugestions?[/quote]
Here is my perspective:
In the UK I worked at McDonalds. I earned £7 per hour X 38 hours per week = £266p/w X 52/12 = £1152.66 per month (before tax)
The average Buxiban salary is around £NT600 per hour X 20 teaching hours per week = $NT12000 per week. (Then add on another 15 hours for prep time, marking, meetings, travelling and other BS etc for a total of around 35 hours per week).
$NT12000 per week X 52/12 = $NT52000 per month (before tax). $NT52000 / 47 = £1106.38 per month.
Obviously there is the lower cost of living in Taiwan to consider but on the other side of the coin you have all of the associated setup costs here (flights, visa, scooter etc etc)
If I could hazard a guess I would say that a good graphics designer earns around 2-3 times the salary of a Team Member at McDonalds. So in your case multiply my McDonalds salary by 3 and leave the Taiwan salary the same.
To sumarise I don’t think that Taiwan is the place to be if your primary goal is to earn money. Just my 
[quote=“Milkybar_Kid”][quote=“CraigTPE”]
Why do people keep comparing salaries of native English speaking English teachers with that of the average office worker? Apples and oranges.[/quote]
Exactly! Your average Taiwanese office worker earning an average of $NT30k per month is unlikely to have a student loan debt of over $NT1,000,000 like the average English teacher.
Actually that’s a very sweeping generalisation but sometimes I feel that the locals need to look above and beyond the headline rate of $60k per month or whatever [/quote]
Our economic realities are just one factor. Another is that different jobs provide different pay. Different skills, different market forces (supply/demand), different benefit packages (generally non-existent for most native English speaking teaches). We generally don’t get sick pay, holiday pay, typhoon day pay or annual bonuses that amount to several months of our pay. Nor do we generally have year end parties where the grand prize is an iPad and dozens of other cash prizes.
Pardon me while I prepare for my 1-week unpaid “vacation”.
And don’t forget the shitfest that is March Pay Day.
And don’t forget the shitfest that is March Pay Day.[/quote] Well, now, if you don’t like it here. . . .
(just kidding)