What about old people who don’t lift their feet up and put them on the floorboard?
Bottom line is that public transport and bicycles are excellent of course, but many or most people need personal transport at least some of the time.
The practical alternative to scooters, isn’t less traffic. It’s more cars.
Scooters are almost the perfect personal transport. Electric would be better of course. Fuck the Segway.
I don’t ‘choose’ to live far from work. I live 15 minutes form work by scooter. As I said, it would be almost 2 hours by public transport.
Again, if they could encourage people to scooter to the public transport, that would be the ideal solution, I think.
What we have in Taiwan are scooters that are decidedly 20th century when there are far better options available. The practical alternative to scooters ALREADY exists and is the electric bike, cycling, taking the bus, taking the train or MRT or walking in the large majority of cases At the same time there is the environmental and safety nuisance that scooters represent.
Again , it’s hard to argue that not having scooters would be a real problem compared to the obvious huge difference it would make to the environment around us. If you live so far out that you can’t get to work then you can consider a car or moving closer. The best idea is if people who really need scooters still kept them but the people who don’t need them were encouraged to give up the habit. Look at Taiwan’s cities particularly New Taipei City…what’s the argument for such a huge scooter density. You really prefer these things occupying all the pavements and the noise and fumes? Really?
It’s just a habit that should be legislated out of existence like smoking 
.
Motorcycle industry in Taiwan is like tobacco industry in the western!
As long as there’s needy market and there’s big money, then, business of the industry would be wealthy enough to make enough CONTRIBUTION to influent those powerful politicians and legislators (some of them probably are shareholders or owners of this business).
Hence…it is complicate! You hate it but a lot of people cant live without it!
Really? 54% of New Yorkers do not own a car. Given the greater density here, and the way the cities are divided into neighborhoods with an abundance of restaurants, shops, grocery stores, and markets, what reason do most have for needing a vehicle?
I no longer have a car, or a scooter. Miss them only for recreation when I want to hit the coast or something and don’t want to take all day. I have no need for a car or scooter in my daily life. Never driven to work even when it was faster as it’s a dangerous way to get around.
If people need a vehicle they can rent. Cheaper than having your own. But in any case, we aren’t really talking about stopping people from owning a vehicle as using it all the time.
When I first lived in Taiwan I had a motorcycle. That was in the days before the MRT. Back then it was the only way to get around town with any kind of speed.
Now with the MRT reaching pretty much everywhere in the city, I haven’t felt the need for a motorcycle/scooter.
A car is nice for the occasional drive to remoter destinations. I couldn’t imagine commuting to work in a car here… that would be a logistical nightmare.
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“touduke”]Can you imagine 30 cars parking outside each and every 7/11 at any given time of the day cause folks one block away just drove over to their 7 to buy a coke and cigarettes? I prefer 30 scooters.
Scooters are a ingrained part of todays Taiwanese lifestyle - replacing them with cars would be madness, and there are no buses going from everybody’s house to her or his 7/11.
As I see it, only foreigners and a few Taiwanese would favor a change of lifestyle, the rest is happy the way it is.[/quote]
Again, I think your understanding is limited as in not doing A means B?!? Strange logic.[/quote]
The guy sliding his porridge ass off a Yamaha Majesty outside 7-Eleven has a different mindset and prioritites to the majority of car drivers. He’s out to get his ciggies and slops and he doesn’t want to expend a single calorie while doing so.
Nobody’s going to climb in their car to drive 250 meters to a convenience store because parking is a real issue. They’re going to leave the car where it is and walk …
Taiwan has a scooter/motorcycle ownership rate of 1 vehicle per 1.8 people. The world’s highest apparently. In Japan it is 1 per 9.7 people.
Clearly Taiwan knows what it is doing since the world has agreed that the living quality here is vastly superior to the rest of the world, and especially Japan. 
[quote=“navillus”]
I’d guess a lot of these scooter riders also have a car somewhere. My wife and I had two scooters and a car and the car rarely left the driveway. We are down to one scooter now and it is a fight about who will get to take it to avoid the hassle of parking. Public Transport might be a little better in Taipei, but anywhere else scooters are a necessity. And if everyone had to drive their cars, I can’t imagine the gridlock.
Electric scooters are not really an option for Taiwan either, as they are not reliable in heavy rain. This coming from one of my students parents who sells them and was trying to get me to buy one.[/quote]
I am riding an electric tandem bike for more than 6 years now and no matter how much rain, never had a problem with the electrical circuits.
After redesigning it with front and back engine, there was water collecting inside the tube which contained the connectors to the back engine. That was due to my own design error. Just moving the part up above the point, where water eventually could penetrate, did the trick. I never had any other water issues and that one really did not cause us to get stuck either.
Besides, there is pretty much the same amount of electrical wiring in a conventional scooter. And if the developers did a lousy job they’ll get stuck in the rain as well.
There used to be this stigma about cars from Italy. They also had problems in bad weather. I used to drive a Fiat 2000 in Europe and it really did not like rainy days.
Right now, I ride my e-bike every day from my home near Taipei main station to Jingan MRT, then back to my home and from there to Jieyun Luzho MRT station and back home again. Because each of my destinations are away from the MRT about 20 minutes on foot, I chose to take the bike. It takes bout 35- 40 minutes to the place near Jingan MRT and about 45 minutes to the place in LuZhou. Taking a combination of MRT and bus can be the same or take up to 20 minutes more.
Here are the running expenses so far.
MRT would be 2500-3000 per month.
2500 X 12 = 30000 per year
Bike after purchase;
2400 NT$ per year for maintaining the wheels.
1500 others like brakes new seat etc.
Batteries need to be replaced every 3-4 years.
I use two of them.
Each costs about 7500 NT$. 15000 : 3 = 5000 per year.
Engine repair one after 6 years 1500NT$ this engine however was already in use for more than 2 years at the time I purchased it second hand. let’s say 500 per year.
Let’s see;
2400
+1500
+5000
- 500
= 9400 per year for riding and maintaining an electric bike.
Sorry I forgot to include the electricity. Maybe 500 NT$ per month. 10AH 24V two packs a day!
Purchasing cost is around 20 000 NT$
Every crazy scooter I see, I am just happy it isn’t another car, which would make the traffic even more unbearable.
I want both of these gasoline stinking monsters to disappear but right now, I am after the scooters.
I did not say that the cars or scooters in general have to go. I want the gas engines to be banned in the cities.
This could be achieved by running the vehicles on electric engines and extending the range with a generator. A battery for a 20 KM range should be enough to have them run quietly without emissions. Once they are out of the city they can turn on their generators and go all the way home.
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“touduke”]Can you imagine 30 cars parking outside each and every 7/11 at any given time of the day cause folks one block away just drove over to their 7 to buy a coke and cigarettes? I prefer 30 scooters.
Scooters are a ingrained part of todays Taiwanese lifestyle - replacing them with cars would be madness, and there are no buses going from everybody’s house to her or his 7/11.
As I see it, only foreigners and a few Taiwanese would favor a change of lifestyle, the rest is happy the way it is.[/quote]
Again, I think your understanding is limited as in not doing A means B?!? Strange logic.[/quote]
I doubt my understanding of the situation is that far off. Sure, not doing A does not mean B - if people start walking to the 7 at the corner instead of driving over there with the scooter the problem would be solved or minimized.
I just think that this is very unlikely to happen.
[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”]
I want both of these gasoline stinking monsters to disappear but right now, I am after the scooters.
I did not say that the cars or scooters in general have to go. I want the gas engines to be banned in the cities. [/quote]
Ok, so you’re having a nice whine about how bad petrol scooters are and you’re doing your own bit but what else do you propose doing to encourage those in power to do something? Or is this just you venting your spleen?
BTW I agree with you and I think it’s a shame that the government doesn’t do more to encourage the take up of electric scooters ( I see from another thread that they offer discounts on electric scooters, and when in Pinglin the other week I saw that the Tea Museum has an electric charging point), but how well advertised is all of this?
If it would be easier to charge them I’d totally go for an electric scooter.
Let me think how many electric scooters I’ve seen in Taiwan in my past six years here… mhhhh, still thinking… ahhh ZERO
I’m actually more annoyed by the noise of the elementary school next to my home - loudspeakers with people “barking” all the time in the morning (unless it rains) and pointless march music.
Classical music with11 KHz or lower should be banned.
Would be cool to find out more how the government currently promotes electric scooters.
The electric-scooter discount thing is, sadly, a scam. It only applies to certain makes and models, and it’s basically just a way of putting cash into the pockets of corporations (presumably, critical KMT sponsors). The scooters on offer are a joke. Underpowered, low-quality batteries, overpriced. It would be perfectly possible to make a top-notch electric scooter these days for the same retail price as a petrol one if the government took on (for example) the costs of tooling or advertising/promotion, rather than handing out direct subsidies. That method would also allow smaller companies to enter the market. But they don’t do it that way, because, as usual, “green” tech is just another way to fleece ignorant consumers who think they’re doing their bit. Remember, politicians and policymakers here have been through the “education system”. They can’t conceive of things being different or better than they actually are.
Hamlet, got any pics of your tandem (you did say tandem, right?). Sounds pretty impressive.
[quote=“Nuit”][quote=“headhonchoII”]That’s pretty much everywhere in China and they are usually classified as electric bikes. But the government is clamping down on them now.
Taiwan is far behind the times in some ways. The main reason I surmise is companies such as Kymco and Sym have a lot of influence here, along with the gormlessness of the population as to the ways of the outside world.[/quote]
Was going to say the same. Beijing, Hangzhou, Chengdu - all have plenty of bicycles and electric scooters. It’s calming, and streets ahead of Taiwan.
But I wouldn’t expect change here in the next 20 years.[/quote]
I noticed the great numbers of electric bikes in CHina too and was wondering why we didnt develop that (or just import, the price was very cheap) in Europe.
Thing is : they use very polluting lead batteries than need to be changed every couple of years. = even worst than gasoline of a scooter on the same period.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster, nor would they use small lanes as scooters do as the savings in time would be offset by the likelihood of a traffic jam from which you couldn’t extract yourself.
[/quote]
You must not be living in New Taipei City, do you 
Wrong…it’s against the law here to make a right on red. You’re lucky there’s not a cop standing by to stop you for a ticket.
I should know…my in-law got one last year making a right on red while riding a scooter.
[quote=“PigBloodCake”][quote=“Muzha Man”]Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster, nor would they use small lanes as scooters do as the savings in time would be offset by the likelihood of a traffic jam from which you couldn’t extract yourself.
[/quote]
You must not be living in New Taipei City, do you [/quote]
They wouldn’t use cars as scooters for many VERY obvious reasons- Tax, Home Parking Cost, Outside Parking Cost, Traffic Fines, Maintenance Cost, Running Cost, Petrol Cost, Less Convenience. Need I go on?