I want these scooters off the streets!

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
61

Exactly my view. I much prefer scooters to cars.

I too would like to see fewer cars on the streets of Taipei as most times they’re not necessary, but I wouldn’t want Big Government to take away people’s rights to drive. Too forceful and draconian for my tastes.

Incentives for people to take public transportation would be more the way I’d do it, rather than banning cars and motorcycles. This would include the availability of night buses (since many people drive so they can drive back home late at night after public transportation stops).

I’d also enforce traffic laws, especially to prevent double parking and make sure scooters stay in scooter lanes. And synchronize the traffic lights better. This would improve traffic flow.

62

Actually, measures have been taken to reduce scooter pollution. 2 stroke scooters are not being produced anymore, there are hotlines to report excessive polluters and new 4 stroke scooters have to come equipped with fuel injectors.

63

Governments around the world already have their nose in everyone’s business typically, and they should stay out of trying to legislate what or how people move around.

The newest scooters as previously mentioned are very clean, compared to a person in the car right next to them. And I think if there was any law banning scooters, I do believe people would just buy a crappy, polluting old car to commute to work. The people that like driving/riding something aren’t going to give it up that easily.

In addition, any government that tried to ban scooters would be promptly trounced in the next election, so they know better than to do that.

Scooters: Lower emissions in the newer models, fuel efficient, can park them anywhere, can pack more people into a downtown that way than having that many compatible cars. Compared to waiting forever for the MRT, and then having to transfer multiple times, all whilst having to sit next to a pack of smelly teenagers that are not familiar with deodorant all the way home. Pretty tough decision here…

64

[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“PigBloodCake”][quote=“Muzha Man”]Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster, nor would they use small lanes as scooters do as the savings in time would be offset by the likelihood of a traffic jam from which you couldn’t extract yourself.
[/quote]

You must not be living in New Taipei City, do you :ponder:[/quote]

They wouldn’t use cars as scooters for many VERY obvious reasons- Tax, Home Parking Cost, Outside Parking Cost, Traffic Fines, Maintenance Cost, Running Cost, Petrol Cost, Less Convenience. Need I go on?[/quote]

Exactly. I gave up my car after an accident because I determined that running it cost around NT10,000 a month when you add up taxes, parking, repairs, etc. This didn’t include gas or the initial outlay for the vehicle.

The notion that the average person who makes NT25,000 a month is going to run a car if he can’t use a scooter is fantasy.

As for the 7-Eleven scenario, please. You people sound like the pundits 10 years ago who said taiwanese would never walk or exercise. But lo, soon as the facilities were built people starting using them.

As I have shown, taiwan has an extraordinary amount of scooters. How about someone actually form an argument for scooter use based on this extraordinary condition? Namely, why Taiwan out of all the world’s countries has to be special in this way?

65

The gym I go to daily isn’t near any transit and taking a car would be a nightmare. One of the things I like most about Taiwan is the freedom offered by scooters. If you like the way they do things in Japan, well, there are frequent flights out of here to there and they have a ESL industry so paradise is literally a hop away for you. No scooters in China, well there you go, you don’t even have to learn a new language. You choose not to use a car or a scooter fine I respect your choice. I choose to use a scooter, as it is the mode of peronal transportation that best meets my needs, I don’t need some sanctimonious jerk telling me what’s best for me. The really ironic thing on this forum is that some of the posters here talking about air pollution use air travel frequently. That means your so called carbon footprint is likely a multiple of my own.

66

As people already mentioned above, can you imagine what TW would be like if everyone had a car? It would be a complete bloody nightmare.

67

I’ve waited forever for buses, but the MRT comes once every 3-4 minutes or so.

And those packs of teenagers? Paradoxically, they tend to stand, even if there are plenty of empty seats available. Never understood it, but hey, it leaves a place for me to sit.

68

I’ve waited forever for buses, but the MRT comes once every 3-4 minutes or so.

And those packs of teenagers? Paradoxically, they tend to stand, even if there are plenty of empty seats available. Never understood it, but hey, it leaves a place for me to sit.[/quote]

I agree, the MRT system is Taipei is great. I’m not sure how you end up waiting forever for one. But for short trips (3-5 km), the scooter is just too convienent for me to give up.

69

[quote=“dan2006”]Governments around the world already have their nose in everyone’s business typically, and they should stay out of trying to legislate what or how people move around.

The newest scooters as previously mentioned are very clean, compared to a person in the car right next to them. And I think if there was any law banning scooters, I do believe people would just buy a crappy, polluting old car to commute to work. The people that like driving/riding something aren’t going to give it up that easily.

In addition, any government that tried to ban scooters would be promptly trounced in the next election, so they know better than to do that.

Scooters: Lower emissions in the newer models, fuel efficient, can park them anywhere, can pack more people into a downtown that way than having that many compatible cars. Compared to waiting forever for the MRT, and then having to transfer multiple times, all whilst having to sit next to a pack of smelly teenagers that are not familiar with deodorant all the way home. Pretty tough decision here…[/quote]
:bravo: Totally agree with you. It’s easy for some first world economic refugee making 50K to 100K month in Taiwan to comment that scooters should be banned. Tell that to the Taiwanese office worker making 30K. It’s cheap transport for most workers and the government should not infringe upon that.

70

huh?

Less scooters = good, but less scooters and therefore more cars = bad. Less scooters doesn’t have to result in more cars. More cars would probably not be manageable anyway -
so
a) people start to walk street a lot more
or
b) since people don’t want to walk - they will not abandon their scooters.

IMO not many people in Taiwan walk streets compared to others countries I know or have lived in.
And I’m afraid this ain’t gonna change soon .

I do walk. I walk with my son to the kindergarten, across crowded streets & intersections, through a park, over a bridge and along a creek. It is nice and it is terrible it is dangerous too (but less dangerous than have him stand on my scooter - even with a helmet).
On our way some mums and dads with kids pass us on their way to the same kindergarten - helmet free- munching on a donut while standing on the scooter. “It’s too dangerous to walk - so we drive” I hear.
One a-gong walks his grandkid to that kindy, I know where they live, it’s less than 20.000 cm from the kindy’s gate.

71

That is the point some of us are making. Get rid of the excess number of scooters and other patterns will change as well. People will be able to walk. Just as, in the unclear example I gave (apologies) when Taiwanese finally had parks and outdoor spaces that were safe to exercise and play in they took to them in numbers.

If the government had listened to foreigners 10 years ago they never would have built bike paths and riverside parks because the wise knew that Taiwanese didn’t exercise or care about going out to parks. After all, if they did, they would be out doing it, despite the conditions.

72

[quote=“touduke”]
On our way some mums and dads with kids pass us on their way to the same kindergarten - helmet free- munching on a donut while standing on the scooter. “It’s too dangerous to walk - so we drive” I hear.
One a-gong walks his grandkid to that kindy, I know where they live, it’s less than 20.000 cm from the kindy’s gate.[/quote]

I took this picture last weekend. They are probably on their way picking up grandma.

[quote=“finley”]

Hamlet, got any pics of your tandem (you did say tandem, right?). Sounds pretty impressive.[/quote]
Here is a picture I took when we arrived in Bali after cycling around Taiwan.

73

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“PigBloodCake”][quote=“Muzha Man”]Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster, nor would they use small lanes as scooters do as the savings in time would be offset by the likelihood of a traffic jam from which you couldn’t extract yourself.
[/quote]

You must not be living in New Taipei City, do you :ponder:[/quote]

They wouldn’t use cars as scooters for many VERY obvious reasons- Tax, Home Parking Cost, Outside Parking Cost, Traffic Fines, Maintenance Cost, Running Cost, Petrol Cost, Less Convenience. Need I go on?[/quote]

Exactly. I gave up my car after an accident because I determined that running it cost around NT10,000 a month when you add up taxes, parking, repairs, etc. This didn’t include gas or the initial outlay for the vehicle.

The notion that the average person who makes NT25,000 a month is going to run a car if he can’t use a scooter is fantasy.

As for the 7-Eleven scenario, please. You people sound like the pundits 10 years ago who said taiwanese would never walk or exercise. But lo, soon as the facilities were built people starting using them.

As I have shown, taiwan has an extraordinary amount of scooters. How about someone actually form an argument for scooter use based on this extraordinary condition? Namely, why Taiwan out of all the world’s countries has to be special in this way?[/quote]

Man, both of you don’t really get my response.

  1. “Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster” - in NTC, yes they do.
  2. “nor would they use small lanes as scooters do” - in NTC, yes they do if the lane can fit a car.
74

I’m with you. I love my scooter, and I would hate not to have it. One of the best things living in Tainan over the last decade is that I’ve been free of the car ownership cycle. Virtual enslavement to the government, the motor industry, insurance companies, the gas companies etc etc. Fuck them.

And as to public transportation? New York isn’t Taipei. And Taipei isn’t Tainan.

75

I love driving my scooter down those bike paths. There’s no traffic.

76

That’s why it’s so damn expensive to own a car in the 'wan.

Imagine that your yearly property tax in Da-An (yes, DA-AN!!!) district is less than your yearly vehicle registration/license/gas consumption tax. :loco: :loco: :loco:

77

[quote=“PigBloodCake”]Man, both of you don’t really get my response.

  1. “Cars don’t drive on sidewalks to take corners faster” - in NTC, yes they do.
  2. “nor would they use small lanes as scooters do” - in NTC, yes they do if the lane can fit a car.[/quote]

Oh course I get it, but seeing it isn’t part of an overall argument there is nothing to say in return. You’re just being silly and argumentative.

78

I’m with you. I love my scooter, and I would hate not to have it. One of the best things living in Tainan over the last decade is that I’ve been free of the car ownership cycle. Virtual enslavement to the government, the motor industry, insurance companies, the gas companies etc etc. Fuck them.

And as to public transportation? New York isn’t Taipei. And Taipei isn’t Tainan.[/quote]

I’m surprised you of all people are arguing for the lowest common denominator in the debate on how best to move people around this country.

Yes, Tainan has crappy public transport. So the long term goal then in to ensure that it never gets better?

79

There’s the BIG picture and the little picture. Most arguments here consist of ‘you ain’t taking away my goddang scooter’ over my dead body. Fine, but enjoy the lack of pavements, pollution and noise that go with them then.

Another comment tried to link air travel pollution to scooter pollution. Yes all travel causes pollution, but if you were to choose one thing that has a ubiquitous effect (apart from cars) in Taiwan that is scooters.

Simply put there are better ways to organise things. If you want to hold on to 20th century technology as a right then consider paying for parking, restrict to designated areas, limit the noise, limit the emissions, control scooter driving behaviour better. I can see the government has made very little progress in this regard unfortunately. Tragedy of the commons, everybody wants convenience, everybody wants to park where they wish, everybody wants the cheapest transportation.

Try walking your kids around in this dangerous and awkward mess :fume: and breathing in the air when you know that with just a few changes things could be SO much better.

80

That’s why it’s so damn expensive to own a car in the 'wan.

Imagine that your yearly property tax in Da’an (yes, Da’an!!!) district is less than your yearly vehicle registration/license/gas consumption tax. :loco: :loco: :loco:[/quote]

Actually it’s pretty cheap to run a car in Taiwan compared to Europe and Japan unless you are living in Taipei City itself. They have a much better policy to manage cars than scooters, politicians are loath to touch ‘laobaixings’ scooters. And believe me I can see why some Taiwanese would be angry if they started restricting scooters due to their low wages and the lack of transport options in some cities. Obviously each area would have to roll out its own policies with extensive investment in public transport. But unpopular choices are sometimes the right choices, there’s simply no excuse in NTC to have so many polluting scooters on the roads still (yes there are other issues with too many empty taxis, too many cars etc etc…but that is not the discussion at present here).

Do yourselves a favour and stand at any major intersection of your choice on a hot and humid summer’s evening during the evening rush hour. Breath in the toxic fumes deep into your lungs, suck in the particulates, lap it up even and tell me that there is not a better way?