Personally I write the problem off as very poor city planning, simply compare to Hong Kong.
Consider a requirement that all NEW high density housing be built literally on or next to the rail system. All high density housing must have entrances exits that join onto the rail system. High density housing that is not directly on or next to a train station is physically joined to another building that has access to the high density housing.
It has pros and cons, but overall I believe its an ideal system. People can end up literally living, shopping and working in the same building or one near by, or one a few train stops away.
I know some people would disagree, to me this is ideal. I sometimes imagine a world where the city was never built outwards, but upwards. We would have natural bush, rivers, lakes, and oceans literally right outside the building we live in, with little to no pollution caused by transport.
Hong Kong style transport would be difficult to achieve in taiwan without political difficulties, but certainly possible.
When the whole MRT system is finished everyone is supposed to be within 500m of a station entrance. What will the arguments be then? âI just love the feel of ozone through my hair.â
Mucha Man,
I think youâre pretty much in my boat in that you work from home so you donât face a daily commute, and working irregular hours means that you can run errands during non-peak times. Do you think your take on transport would be different if you were an 8 to 6 commuting salaryman?
[quote=âalmas johnâ]Muzha Man,
I think youâre pretty much in my boat in that you work from home so you donât face a daily commute, and working irregular hours means that you can run errands during non-peak times. Do you think your take on transport would be different if you were an 8 to 6 commuting salaryman?[/quote]
Nope. I worked in Taipei City for many years. Rode the bus and MRT everyday, averaging 40-60 minutes each way (scootering would have been 15-20 minutes). In addition to the danger of scootering, there is also the fact you arrive at home or work reeking of ozone and other air pollutants. And on the bus or MRT I could read, listen to music or Chinese lessons. There was no contest.
Besides, as a good citizen I am perfectly willing to sacrifice a bit of my convenience (ie, shorter commutes) for the greater good of reducing air pollution and traffic.
Why? Because those 30 minutes I save each trip means that in the other 23.5 hours in the day I have to breathe worse air than I want to. The morning and evening scooter rush mean that I have to wait till after 8 or 9pm, or go very early in the morning to get in exercise in fresh air. It means that an afterwork stroll down the main streets is not an enjoyable experience as in many cities, but something that makes you feel like youâve gone through a dirt cloud. None of this makes sense to me.
My feeling is that the overall quality of my life is better when there are fewer cars and scooters being used for daily commutes. So to sacrifice 30 minutes of my day for better quality is something I am easily willing to do.
[quote=âMucha Manâ][quote=âalmas johnâ]Muzha Man,
I think youâre pretty much in my boat in that you work from home so you donât face a daily commute, and working irregular hours means that you can run errands during non-peak times. Do you think your take on transport would be different if you were an 8 to 6 commuting salaryman?[/quote]
Nope. I worked in Taipei City for many years. Rode the bus and MRT everyday, averaging 40-60 minutes each way (scootering would have been 15-20 minutes). In addition to the danger of scootering, there is also the fact you arrive at home or work reeking of ozone and other air pollutants. And on the bus or MRT I could read, listen to music or Chinese lessons. There was no contest.
Besides, as a good citizen I am perfectly willing to sacrifice a bit of my convenience (ie, shorter commutes) for the greater good of reducing air pollution and traffic.
Why? Because those 30 minutes I save each trip means that in the other 23.5 hours in the day I have to breathe worse air than I want to. The morning and evening scooter rush mean that I have to wait till after 8 or 9pm, or go very early in the morning to get in exercise in fresh air. It means that an afterwork stroll down the main streets is not an enjoyable experience as in many cities, but something that makes you feel like youâve gone through a dirt cloud. None of this makes sense to me.
My feeling is that the overall quality of my life is better when there are fewer cars and scooters being used for daily commutes. So to sacrifice 30 minutes of my day for better quality is something I am easily willing to do.[/quote]
Well said. I would also be willing to trade some convenience for a nicer environment. I think as longtimers here itâs often easy to get the balance wrong in terms of personal convenience versus the civic good. Scooters really are a plague here. So often something that should be pleasant, lets say strolling through a small town market, is actually hellish because people are too bloody lazy to get off their arse.
Exactly. It is unpleasant to do things that are simple pleasures in towns and cities elsewhere.
Despite a few dumb comments, the bike paths in Taipei are almost completely scooter free and a joy to ride for it. You get the occasional teenage rider on Friday nights or the farmers who have fields in a couple places but 99% of the time I can ride for hours without seeing a single scooter.
But the key is that the rules are actually enforced. There are guard booths in most of the large parks now,and you see these guys patrolling every hour or so. Yes, they use a scooter but they actually drive slowly and respectfully.
So things can change here and when they are enforced a superior environment is created. Why one earth would any of us want to argue for anything less?
I agree with you to an extent but Iâm skeptical that banning scooters is going to achieve your ends. Letâs start with things that are polluting and less practical, ghost money offerings and other open burning for starters.
I agree with interms of being scooter free and I agree that the paths are go for âgoing for a rideâ but for me as a practical means of transportation to actually go somewhere absolutly not and certainly not in the summer. Heat + High Hummidity = need for shower facilities at both ends of the trip.
I agree again that things can change but as per my comments above even if the trails were 100% scooter free biking they would not be a practical alternative for me. The only practical alternative to my scooter is a car.
No one is suggesting that the bike routes are a serious alternative for daily commutes. But why is a scooter or car your only option? As Bu Lai En suggested, people can ride in to MRT areas if they live too far out and take the system into the city.
Yes, there are going to be some people who will always need their own personal transport. But we are talking about greater trends. Do you or do you not want to see fewer polluting vehicles on the road? And are you actually willing to pay a proper compensation for the unpleasant and unhealthy environment you help create by driving? In other words, for your convenience are you willing to pay a toll tax to enter the city, for example?
I agree with you to an extent but Iâm skeptical that banning scooters is going to achieve your ends. Letâs start with things that are polluting and less practical, ghost money offerings and other open burning for starters. [/quote]
Sorry, but EPA studies have for years shown the same thing: air pollution in Taipei is 98% vehicle exhaust. You can see the difference in air quality during the weekends and especially during Chinese New Year when there are far fewer vehicles on the road.
In other parts of the country the pollution makeup is different but vehicles still contribute a great deal.
That said, yes, I am all for banning ghost paper burning.
I salute your choices although I wouldnât characterise what you are doing as a sacrifice. You are making a decision to forgo some benifit of a certain behaviour for some percieved benifit. In other words you are giving up something with the expectation of getting something better in return. Where I have a problem, is anyone with telling me I should make the same choice (sacrifice) or that I should share their values.
I agree with you to an extent but Iâm skeptical that banning scooters is going to achieve your ends. Letâs start with things that are polluting and less practical, ghost money offerings and other open burning for starters. [/quote]
Sorry, but EPA studies have for years shown the same thing: air pollution in Taipei is 98% vehicle exhaust. You can see the difference in air quality during the weekends and especially during Chinese New Year when there are far fewer vehicles on the road.
In other parts of the country the pollution makeup is different but vehicles still contribute a great deal.
That said, yes, I am all for banning ghost paper burning.[/quote]
No need to apologize, I completely believe the proportion of air pollution in Taipei due to vehicle exhaust is that high. In fact, Iâd be surprised if the air pollution in any city was less than 85% due to vehicle exhaust. My comment about open fires was more of picking the low hanging fruit first rather than banning the open fires as and end point. Of the 98% of pollution in Taipei due to vechicle exhaust, which proportion of it was due to scooters? And how much of it would disappear if you banned scooter and instead had people drive cars or motorcycles?
I live in Neihu within 100 meters of the MRT station, the gym I go to is about 2.5 kilometes away and nowhere near any public transport. Also, going to the Neihu Costco is about 3.5 kms away and nowhere near the MRT. The buses in Taipei suck and going to Costco and back would take 4 times longer than going by scooter. Also hauling my gear or purchases on the bus is also a non starter. For neighborhood things like groceries and 7-11, I walk.
Youâre absolutely correct about the Neihu Costco. Public transportation to that area, which has many great warehouse stores, sucks balls. You pretty much need your own motorized transport to get there.
Youâre absolutely correct about the Neihu Costco. Public transportation to that area, which has many great warehouse stores, sucks balls. You pretty much need your own motorized transport to get there.[/quote]
Iâve done it by MRT and bus many times. Or just a taxi to the MRT.
No one said we wouldnât need some personal vehicle some of the time. But do you go to Costco twice daily? No. This kind of talk is irrelevant. For one thing, if most people werenât using scooters or cars then Costco would have shuttles from nearby MRT stations, as other grocery stores already do.
Thatâs odd. How can you step into what you natively inhabit? Good night.[/quote]
Dude, if you go around trying to redefine commonly used terms to suit some obscure libertarian principle, or whatever you are doing, I am not going to have a conversation with you.
On an electric tandem bicycle? But how would I be able to see where Iâm going? What with the paper bag to hide my face and all?
Plus, there just 'aint any public transport running out to my place by the time I get off work. Its car or taxi. And if you think Iâm about to wait for an mrt and then sit there and schlep into a taxi to not get home until 12:30 at night, youâve got another think coming. Sorry, but Iâll HAPPILY and JOYOUSLY increase my carbon footprint with nary a care in the world if it gets me home by 11:30. That hour makes ALL the difference when its late at night.
Youâre absolutely correct about the Neihu Costco. Public transportation to that area, which has many great warehouse stores, sucks balls. You pretty much need your own motorized transport to get there.[/quote]
Iâve done it by MRT and bus many times. Or just a taxi to the MRT. [/quote]
If youâre willing to spend 3-4 times as long on a bus crammed with your purchases then thatâs your choice. We arenât talking about what is possible, it is physically possible to make the whole trip by foot. The point is I donât think you or anybody like you has the right to tell me how I should go about my business or what level of personal inconvenience I should endure (within reasonable limits of course). Thatâs my choice. 4 times longer for you is ok, for me itâs not acceptable. Maybe my time is more valuable to me than yours is to you.
As for the taxi Idea, so you think that replacing the scooter ride to Costco and back (100 cc engine) is somehow going to release less pollutants if replaced by a TAXI ride ( 1.8 L displacement letâs assume )??? Now whoâs in an alternate reality.
No I go to Costco about once a week but, as I mentioned I go to my gym daily (same issue). The Neihu Costco was merely one example of a place where personalized motor transport is a must for me so letâs not get fixated on Costco.
You say âno one said we wouldnât need some personal vehicle some of the timeâ Actually thatâs pretty much what youâve been saying. Iâve told you point blank that banning scooters would force me to buy a car. And, youâve questioned that.
Thatâs odd. How can you step into what you natively inhabit? Good night.[/quote]
Dude, if you go around trying to redefine commonly used terms to suit some obscure libertarian principle, or whatever you are doing, I am not going to have a conversation with you.
Hereâs the definition of sacrifice:
Yikes, out of all the points in the discussion, thatâs what has gotten you worked up? Fine, letâs dismiss my obscure libertarian principles and accept you are making a sacrifice. How does that in anyway change the context of the discussion or the pratical issue brought up. The only thing Iâve done is give you a hair to split.
