I was under the impression that with a JFRV based ARC that I could take the same employment as locals.
However in applying to take the commercial small boat captain’s license exam, I was told that I could only apply for a provisional license for personal use and could not take employment as a boat’s captain. All of my class mates in the class which is required to qualify to take the exam were allowed to test for a commercial license. I was told that foreigners cannot hold this license.
Does anyone know what the law says on this? Where should I look. The course was spendy and I’m left with a chance for a license to play, but not to run a dive boat, or sail charter, or anything that could eventually turn a profit.
Yeah, sounds fishy. Can’t see why you can’t sit the exam with a JFRV. Not sure what the law says, but from what I understand you’re free to find any employment on a JFRV.
What does the law say in Chinese and can they produce it, otherwise you may have a fighting chance if nationality is not a requirement to become a captain.
Maybe you could try the CLA. Sometimes it is surprising how helpful they can be, other times they aren’t, so, maybe waste a phone call on them.
Good luck.
Sounds like you may well be up against another piece of bigoted and discriminatory Taiwanese legislation… Blatantly xenophobic “foreigners not welcome” laws do exist and are, against all odds, enforced… MJB has a similar tale in this thread http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=86488 Contacting the CLA or your local crooked legislator may yield results…
[quote=“plasmatron”]Sounds like you may well be up against another piece of bigoted and discriminatory Taiwanese legislation… Blatantly xenophobic “foreigners not welcome” laws do exist and are, against all odds, enforced… MJB has a similar tale in this thread http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=86488 Contacting the CLA or your local crooked legislator may yield results…[/quote]Exactly. You also can’t become a police officer, or a civil servant, or own a flatbead truck, etc. All these discriminatory laws are aimed at “Protecting Taiwan Citizens’ rights”, or so goes the official line.
I wouldn’t be surprised if commercial boating license is right in there under the protected species of jobs! :fume:
Here’s where I’m at now. I have a request (陳情) in with the MOTC. It is the MOTC Harbor Bureau which is responsible for licensing boat captains. I have asked them, to provide a legal grounding for the MOTC Keelung Harbor Bureau official’s decision to not allow me to apply for the commercial captain’s license (KLHB is in charge of the Northern harbors and testing Northern would be captains).
I have searched the laws and the “Regulations for Administering the Crew of Small Ships” 小船船員管理規則 make no note that foreigners are forbidden to apply for the license. They do require a valid ID card (身份證) or Taiwan passport, but this cannot be the reason they have denied my application, because the same requirement exists for the non-commercial license which they are willing to issue to me. Hmmm.
MOTC has committed to providing a response of some sort by 3/29. I wonder what I will find out.
After their response I will take the next step, which I think will most likely be with the CLA. I am also considering getting formal legal assistance, but hope to not have to resort to such an expensive option.
[quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“plasmatron”]Sounds like you may well be up against another piece of bigoted and discriminatory Taiwanese legislation… Blatantly xenophobic “foreigners not welcome” laws do exist and are, against all odds, enforced… MJB has a similar tale in this thread http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=86488 Contacting the CLA or your local crooked legislator may yield results…[/quote]Exactly. You also can’t become a police officer, or a civil servant, or own a flatbead truck, etc. All these discriminatory laws are aimed at “Protecting Taiwan Citizens’ rights”, or so goes the official line.
I wouldn’t be surprised if commercial boating license is right in there under the protected species of jobs! :fume:[/quote]
Probably is. Notice most of the time there is a Taiwanese captain and the rest of the crew is foreign -South East Asian probably- no matter if the vessel goes under a flag of convenience or is not even registered in Taiwan. And we wll know how those boats end frequently.
That’s a bummer. I’ve been lusting after one of those horrible blue trucks for a while now. Looks like I might have a better chance of running a dive boat than I do driving a truck.
I’ve known a few weiguos that had little blue trucks! So that dream might come true!
Regardiing boats, the ROC is notoriously paranoid, with customs and coast guard agents up the yin yang at every tiny port, and harsh restrictions on pleasure boating. So it’s a shame for you, I’m sorry, but it’s no big surprise.
[quote=“BigJohn”]I’ve known a few weiguos that had little blue trucks! So that dream might come true!
Regarding boats, the ROC is notoriously paranoid, with customs and coast guard agents up the yin yang at every tiny port, and harsh restrictions on pleasure boating. So it’s a shame for you, I’m sorry, but it’s no big surprise.[/quote]
Oddly though, despite the deep paranoia of not so many years ago, the government is now happy to let me pilot my own pleasure boat if I accept the lesser private rather than commercial captain’s license, and the restrictions are a bit of a pain but not that onerous. As long as it is a Taiwanese registered vessel, with a licensed captain, all we have to do is stop at the CG dock so they can confirm how many of us are aboard (used to be a phone call would do, so some paranoia has crept back in). They count again when we return. Other than that it’s not so hard.
Foreign registered yachts have to apply for permission every time they leave port. Now that would be onerous.
To be clear I’m talking about exiting via the Danshui river here. What they do elsewhere I’m not so sure about. Although I’ve been told that HouBiHu is supposed to be an easy in and out as well.
A bit OT, but I have a funny story about the Coast Guard and their paranoia.
My friend who is an avid windsurfer was driving his van up and down the coast near Yuan Li looking for breeze and wave. This meant he would drive up to the shore stop, get out, look around and then drive on to the next point. The Coast Guard noticed this and began to follow him. At one stop my friend had to drop a load and went behind a bush to relieve himself. As he walked got back into his van a Coast Guard motorcycle with two agents went racing past him and the two agents jumped off and ran behind the bush, coming out gagging as the found the “treasure” my friend had left behind.
My request to be shown which law prevented me from taking the test to become a commercial small ship captain and which law overrode my right by marriage to take work without a special work permit received an official response. But, simplified, the MOTC’s Marine Policy Division said basically this, “Foreigners are not allowed to become commercial boat captains. If we need to change this policy in the future, we will think about it.”
No mention of any law was given. They did not actually answer my question or address the issues I raised. As they have given no indication that their policy is based in law, or even in congruence with the law, perhaps legal counsel is in order?
Here is the text of the exchange so far, for anyone interested:
As CLA was mentioned as a possibly helpful route, I began exploring their site. On the English site I found this little blurb which may mean this quest of mine is a dead end for the foreseeable future:
Oceanic fishing jobs: performing ordinary sailors’ tasks except as captains, deck officers, chief offers, chief engineers, second engineers, engineers, radio operators of fishing boats, or pilots and their assistants of motor boats.
…
I only wonder whether my right to work via marriage trumps this rule or not. Stay tuned for the probable crash landing of this little venture.
Unfortunately, the right to work via marriage (or via an open work permit with an APRC) only trumps the need for a work permit. It does not trump restrictions on types of work specifically prohibited to foreigners by law.
Edit:
Actually, I wrote the above rather hastily and after a bit more thought feel it may not be as straightforward as this, because:
Work open to foreigners is covered in Article 46 of the Employment Services Act (ESA) (you can find a translation online). Article 46 of the ESA mentions foreigner can work as vessel crew (船員), but doesn’t mention the specific negative list (captain, radio operator, etc.) from the government web page you cited, and I don’t see that negative list enshrined in law anywhere.
Apart from Article 46, there may be specific provisions in various other laws prohibiting foreigners from working or investing (beyond a certain percentage, for example) in specific industries. I’ve done a quick (but by no means exhaustive) search and don’t see any actual prohibition in law against foreigners captaining commercial vessels.
Article 51 of the ESA provides exmptions to the restrictions of Article 46 for foreigner in a number of situations including thos on an APRC + open work permit, and similar exemptions may apply to foreigners with work rights through marriage, but I don’t know the article of law providing this offhand. (Article 48 of the ESA exempts “A Foreign Worker has married a national of the Republic of China with a registered permanent residence in the territory of the Republic of China and has been permitted to stay therein” from the requirement of a work permit, but I don’t know the significance of this with respect to the restrictions of Article 46.)
So, it is possible you might still be able to push this issue with the help of a lawyer. (The above are just my semi-informed layman’s comments.)
Interesting response. However, the prohibition on foreigners working as ship’s captains, as far as I can tell without a background as a lawyer, is actually a Ministry policy rather than a law passed by the legislature. I wonder if this makes a difference?
I suppose if I were a rich well-connected man I might be able to make this move. As it stands, I will bide my time and work on forging some more connections. As for becoming rich, large cash donations are most welcome.
Odd that we can legally become lawyers, doctors, psychologists, and engineers, but we cannot charge a fee for moving people or goods by boat, regardless of our qualifications.
The only problem I see is that I’ve heard that judges defer to ministry dictates on most things. I think the best bet is to pursue it with the relevant ministry and get a one time waiver to run a dive boat.
In theory this would be a crucial difference, though you would likely still need to get a concerted lobbying effort going to change their practice, or use legal avenues to challenge the legality of the policy, which as you say could take considerable time and money.
I had an interesting conversation with a CLA rep. I have not decided to seek legal representation at this point.
The CLA said that I did indeed have the right to work as a Ship’s captain if I met all of the qualifications required, but that the MOTC had their own ability decide who could and could not take the licensing exam. They have the right, not to bar me from working, but to bar me from becoming qualified to work. I’m surprised the MOE hasn’t caught onto this and put an English teacher’s license in place so that they can once again regain power over those who married out from under their thumb. Sorry, you can’t take the licensing exam unless you are a) a Taiwan national or b) willing to meet our exact list of conditions.
