Interesting to see it took Trump to tell the truth to Republicans: Bush was responsible for 9/11 for blowing off the CIA when it was screaming about Osama’s plans to attack America; and that Bush lied to get America into a war against Iraq.
Well let’s not get too carried away here. I’m pretty sure there are several hundred million people who have said the same thing. So sure, let’s throw Trump in as # 200,000,001 to speak the truth.
The joke has gone too far. Seriously, this guy is scary and he’s inches away from the power to press the Big Red Button. Yes, we think the establishment won’t let him go that far… one wonders if the same geniuses that filled their pockets in the real estate crisis have thought this one through.
Just a sample of the kind of politics this guy attaches his cart to:
Donald Trump and the Central Park Five: the racially charged rise of a demagogue
… which after electing the first black president is sort of understandable as a backlash, but makes one feel stuff like The purge may not be that far ahead. But a civil war in the US would be most profitable, or so they say…
Whether Trump would win the primary comes down to the other candidates. Trump isn’t winning by much more than 30%, and if he is facing just one other candidate, like the democratic primary right now, he would lose to whichever establishment candidate still in the race. As for now, there are 60% of votes that would never to go Trump being divided 3 ways.
Oh c’mon isnt there a side of you wondering what a Donald Trump waving a neculear football in on hand while repeatedly hammering on Hillarys reset button with the other during negotiations would be like?
More seriously, I’ve lived through nearly 50 years of a peace process, and honestly I am so saddened by whats going on in the middle east. What has been tried hasn’t worked, more of the same, will not work and we are moving towards a nuclear middle east.
Well please correct me if I’m wrong, but since you have shown support for Trump and you’re saying this in a Trump thread while quoting anti Trump statements, am I right in assuming you think Trump has the best policy on how to deal with the Middle East?
Because last I checked, it basically amounted to “I’ll carpet bomb those mofo’s.”
Completely agree. If the GOP wants a candidate other than Trump, they need to get together and choose someone already and have everyone else drop out. The rest are young enough to mount a campaign in years to come.
Trump has massively high disapproval ratings. There are so many people who are in the anybody but Trump crowd, but with so many candidates splitting the votes it doesn’t show up because he has 30-40% of the people who are hugely in favour of him. If it’s a 2 man race, his disapproval rating is higher than his approval rating, which should add up to a loss.
If they don’t do this soon, it’ll be President Clinton until 2024 and President Warren until 2032.
Well please correct me if I’m wrong, but since you have shown support for Trump and you’re saying this in a Trump thread while quoting anti Trump statements, am I right in assuming you think Trump has the best policy on how to deal with the Middle East?
Because last I checked, it basically amounted to “I’ll carpet bomb those mofo’s.”
[/quote]
no, last I checked he said he would ban all Muslims (non American muslims) entering the USA, until they can figure what the hell is going on. Carpet bombing and all that is what everyone else is discussing.
edit/ I agree he did join the crowd in bombing ISIS, but are you not at the least intrigued by a different approach to the middle east compared to the tried and tested faulty policy?
This is where the preferential voting system would come in handy. Honestly, it’s the more democratic way of doing things.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“BrentGolf”]
Trump has massively high disapproval ratings. There are so many people who are in the anybody but Trump crowd, but with so many candidates splitting the votes it doesn’t show up because he has 30-40% of the people who are hugely in favour of him. If it’s a 2 man race, his disapproval rating is higher than his approval rating, which should add up to a loss.
[/quote]
This is when the preferential voting system would come in handy. Honestly, it’s the more democratic way of doing things.[/quote]
Well until the reality breaks the predictions. Trump 50% in Massachusetts poll twitter.com/EmersonPolling/stat … 2194540544
You’re read enough of my posts on the forum to know that of course I support a different approach. I was genuinely asking if you were implying that Trump has a good policy you agree with, because it wasn’t clear in your post.
I agree with you 100% that what we’re doing now isn’t working. This middle ground of being allies with some and the worst enemy of others at the same time isn’t working. Supporting them in this decade and then going to war in that decade. Supporting this dictator and opposing that dictator. Supplying arms and aid to one and them wondering why the other side doesn’t like us, etc…
It seems clear we need to move in one of two possible directions. Ban all Muslims and carpet bomb the mofo’s Trump style, or integration. I support the latter, but I’d still like the free speech to ridicule the prophet Muhammad as much as I ridicule Donald Trump. Is that too much to ask? 
[quote=“BrentGolf”]You’re read enough of my posts on the forum to know that of course I support a different approach. I was genuinely asking if you were implying that Trump has a good policy you agree with, because it wasn’t clear in your post.
[/quote]
honestly, I don’t know if Trump has thought further than the end of his nose. There is however, a very deep and complicated argument that requires a stop, pause and rethink of middle east policy. it’s not easily articulated, certainly not in a 60 second segment on a debate stage. The best you could say is what Donald has thus far said, “we need to work out whats going on” .
I think I can and have been much more specific. I just happen to believe the direction of integration rather than confrontation is the best course. Not a very popular opinion these days, and understandably so. But you can’t carpet bomb a set of ideas. All we can do is integrate and then ridicule the shit out of those bad ideas until they become benign. Worked for Christianity, kinda 
Seriously whats the Trump fear about?
I for once never heard of him before September. Sure his rhetoric is almost Hilter like… after all how else to get that kind of attention, media presences and e.g. nativist, evangelical, hillbilly (and so on) primary votes. Convincing regular primary or caucus goers only wouldn’t be enough.
Though, let’s say Cruz is even scarier.
Dunno how much of a problem or perceived problem illegal immigration from the south is, but eh, others than Trump have wanted to build a wall (for good reason?)(fence) and failed at it, no novelty here. What’s left is a Muslim ban, and deportations, sounds bad, is bad, but since like forever Muslims or “Muslim looking” persons are scrutinized way more than anyone else while entering the US. Deportations are also ongoing under each administration. It is apparent that Trump just puts these policies (or call em overt discrimination if u like) into a much stronger, different wording – at most he ll try to push em harder. Other than that his (legal) immigration talking points are just standard, no?
Trumpster also ain’t give a shit about LBTG, Marijuana, or abortion rights and neither about wired republicanisms like curtailing Medicare - all plus points.
His foreign policy, amounts to win against ISIS, followed by, well nothing. Just leave the problem to others (EU, Saudi, Russia) and stop pouring own resources into that sink. - and why not? More bad than good happened there under the past two administrations anyways. His only care (shared by every other contender)is Israeli security. Plus he won’t rip up the “Iran deal” (unlike others), even though he is really noisy about it.
Trumpster tax plan seems as bonkers as any other republican’s. At least it’s not a god given flat tax, Carson, Cruz. And putting aside a lower corporation tax and no fed tax for poor households, he is kinda quite about it.
The Donald likes to sell a strong military, but is adamant about cutting costs on deployment (Korea, m. East, Germany) and ( as he calls it unnecessary) equipment - yes that’s actually what he says, when not shouting. China bashing too, is the norm during election years for like a decade.
For sure I missed some other points, anyways: Feel the Burn!
The reason Trump is scary is because the policies he “claims” to support could cause major issues going forward. Now who really knows what he actually believes and what’s just pandering to the audience, but if we take him at his word things could get a lot worse very quickly if he’s elected President.
As far as his policies against Muslims and the Middle East in general, that could spark wars where mass numbers of people die. I don’t think there’s any doubt at all the other candidates would do the same thing. Trump, Cruz, and Rubio are all scary in my opinion because they don’t seem to grasp the real problem or how to address it. They truly think you can bomb ideas, and you can isolate people to solve the problem. They truly feel we have failed because we’ve been too soft. 
His rhetoric towards China could spark trade and currency wars that cause real damage to the US, and the global economy as well. His understanding of economics is shockingly limited. Now granted Presidents are just figure heads, essentially speech givers and the real decisions are made by a team of advisors. But Trump is responsible for choosing those advisors, and morons tend to give jobs to other morons which scares me. The nut job economists that Trump gets his information from scare me.
And the appointment of the next supreme court judge is also a concern if the Republicans succeed in their obstructionism to the point where Obama doesn’t get to appoint anyone. I cringe to think of who Trump will appoint. It doesn’t matter if he’s more liberal than his party, the judge his party will force into the forefront will almost certainly be a disaster for anybody who believes in the true meaning of equal rights for all.
Ones doesn’t know with any other contender. Except, I choose to believe, Sanders
[quote=“BrentGolf”]
As far as his policies against Muslims and the Middle East in general, that could spark wars where mass numbers of people die. I don’t think there’s any doubt at all the other candidates would do the same thing. Trump, Cruz, and Rubio are all scary in my opinion because they don’t seem to grasp the real problem or how to address it. They truly think you can bomb ideas, and you can isolate people to solve the problem. They truly feel we have failed because we’ve been too soft. 
[/quote]
Sure, but it seems Trump ain’t have no policies, just wants to claim a “win” near term and get out of there (i just infer that, as he is keeping mute on any other issues in the area). Yes, that might pave the way for even more tension and open wars in the area (or am I misreading you), however regional powers like Turkey, Saudi, Isreal, Jordan should be able to keep a lid on those. Imho, most interventions left the average m. eastern Joe worse of; Plus with a near/mid term oil/gas oversupply there is no hard reason left to “police” the area… Marlon Brando comes to mind 
[quote=“BrentGolf”]
His rhetoric towards China could spark trade and currency wars that cause real damage to the US, and the global economy as well. His understanding of economics is shockingly limited. […] The nut job economists that Trump gets his information from scare me. [/quote]
I doubt whether rhetoric itself can be damaging when dealing with developed or almost developed stable countries. In addition, one can not soundly deny issues like red tape, state interventions, or currency manipulations on the Chinese side. Now sure Japanese trade polices are and have been little different, and they “got away” with it,
looking at Korea/Taiwan too. Just that this time around China is likely to be to big for US economy to swallow. Plus, I guess, a lot o people would argue that damage to the US economy/society is already real - e.g. even income disparity can not only be pinned on internal issues like education and/or the billionaire class 
Whom does he get his info from anyways? Can’t recall the Trumpstar naming anyone so far. [/quote]
[quote=“BrentGolf”]
And the appointment of the next supreme court judge is also a concern if the Republicans succeed in their obstructionism to the point where Obama doesn’t get to appoint anyone. I cringe to think of who Trump will appoint. It doesn’t matter if he’s more liberal than his party, the judge his party will force into the forefront will almost certainly be a disaster for anybody who believes in the true meaning of equal rights for all.[/quote]
Again, I choose to believe 
, that any appointed Judge is a Judge first, with credentials to back it up. And reading the above it appears it is not Trump to be feared, but rather the reps at large.
With Sanders though it’s pretty easy to believe him because he’s been saying the same things consistently for 20+ years. With Trump and Clinton and the rest, they change as fast as the weather so we really don’t know what they truly think.
I’m not saying his policies are sophisticated, but he does have policies. He’s said several times he wants to go on all out attack mode, bombing them. He’s said many times he wants to bomb all the oil fields. He wants to ban all Muslims from entering the country and will even go as far as deporting those already here. Wants to rip up the Iran deal that was hard earned. Will reverse any positive improvements in relations with Cuba. Won’t give international aid to any countries that don’t pledge support for US foreign policy, essentially blackmail for aid. Won’t trade with countries that oppose American foreign policy, again making trade relations dependent on pandering to the big bad USA.
There’s quite a bit he’s said, and in my opinion they will lead to bad outcomes. It’s people with Trumps mentality that institute places like Manzanar and Minidoka. Just saying…
In my opinion beliefs form actions, so the wildly inaccurate things Trump thinks about China relations can have real consequences.
Also, who says China is manipulating currency? Trump? America? As the saying goes one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. The same can be applied here. One mans currency manipulator is another mans free market choice to govern and guide ones own policies in the best interest of their own economy 
I wish that was true as well, but it’s just not. Unfortunately there are actually conservative and liberal judges. I’m guessing I won’t like the judge appointed by a Trump administration. Others may though so hey, go democracy. I’m just saying, another Scalia isn’t really what the SC needs imo.
I think Trump has the backing of powerful elements within the US military that cannot reconcile US foreign policy with their on the ground experience. That would be the likes of Michael Flynn, who was in charge of the Defence Intelligence Agency. There is a form of soft coup taking place in the US military. They think that it is time to bring back a form of realpolitik. They are at the coalface of the war and think the imperial goals of US foreign policy are not serving the interests of the state as much as the private interests of global corporations. Flynn’s warnings to the state department on US support for ISIS against Assad were going unheaded and his ilk backed cooperation with Russia. This policy runs counter to Saudi ambitions for a gas pipeline through Syria into Turkey and on to Europe. Assad supports it’s old ally, Russia, which has a preexisting gas pipeline. Trump has some powerful teapartyesque allies. I don’t think it is just a simple case of Trump’s an idiot. I think it is much more a case of what is globalization doing for me sentiment. It seems like a shitload of war with a marginal upside. Our kids die while some donkey grows rich. Give me a buffoon, but don’t give me anymore of that crap.
Quoting from a friend who is gambling on this. Trump is of course now favourite to get the nomination.
[quote]IMO the market is still over-influenced by thinking about who would be the best candidate. Yes, Rubio would be the sensible choice of the three, but the actual voters in real primaries/caucuses (and respondents to opinion polls in the states coming up) don’t seem to have got the memo. What’s most noticeable about Trump is that he seems to be ahead in the polls almost everywhere, in states as diverse as Virginia, Georgia, Vermont, Oklahoma, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, North Carolina.
What is helping Trump enormously is that Cruz is not going to give up anytime soon. Indeed why should he? He’s well ahead of Rubio in the polls generally, has actually won in one contest, and is about the same on delegates committed so far. And he certainly doesn’t owe the GOP establishment any favours. What’s more, the one important state coming up which Trump probably won’t win is Cruz’s home state of Texas, where Cruz looks on course to win. So I expect him to stay in the race, blocking Rubio from soaking up the anti-Trump vote. In any case it’s not even obvious that Cruz votes would go overwhelmingly to Rubio if Cruz did withdraw.
In other words, we’re getting to the point where Trump is basically unstoppable unless there’s some game-changing gaffe. Given his unpredictability, that has to be a risk, but I think that’s already in the current price. [/quote]
Trump is the Chucky of American politics, the rogue puppet who’s snapped his strings and is now striking terror in the hearts of America’s puppet masters.
So let’s have crap from a different animal.
The majority of voters will once again get what they richly deserve, having failed to learn from past mistakes. But the collateral damage… how will intelligent and decent people cope with the collapse of Weimar America?